Review K3 mark lll?

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 29,702
Re: I partially agree but there is more
7

John_A_G wrote:

How much market share does Pentax have? Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc are going to be a higher priority because more people are interested in them. And, in the overall market this camera is evolutionary, not revolutionary. That, I believe, is the primary reason.

The AF improvement is a notch better than evolutionary for Pentax. Yes, others have had it for a long time. But considering Pentax'es uninterest in AF for many years, I salute Pentax for changing their mind.

But, you're also on to something as well. The Pentax faithful will blast every negative comment made about the camera. Just look at any review someone has linked to - there are those faithful that jump out and attack the reviewer.

This I think is unfair. You might have seen some small tendencies maybe, but on the whole I think the Pentax people here have been rather realistic regarding the camera and reviews.

Not everything is fantastic. Like lack of articulated screen and lack of GPS and the high price. And this has been accepted as cons.

So, now you're DPR - you get income based on add clicks. So, you're going to publish a review less people will read and thus click on adds and you're going to get endless grief for anything perceived by the faithful as suggesting the camera isn't the greatest invention of our time.

I think if the faithful who always slam these reviewers had to write reviews of non Pentax gear and get slammed by others for their reviews, they'd be less keen on doing it. Especially, when it makes more business sense to review cameras more of the market is interested in anyway.

As I said above, I think you are a bit unfair to the people commenting here now. I think you are living in the past. Today I think most here are rather realistic why they still use Pentax. It is mostly because they like the cameras. And now, with MILC coming, it is also mostly because they like SLR.

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Jon Donahue Contributing Member • Posts: 862
Re: Review K3 mark lll?

I like the idea of a GR Phone. Would buy one immediately. Ricoh should go have a talk with Samsung or LG!

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Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 29,702
Re: Review K3 mark lll?

Jon Donahue wrote:

I like the idea of a GR Phone. Would buy one immediately. Ricoh should go have a talk with Samsung or LG!

The major problem with combined high-tech things is that both things live their own lives, one get old when the other can be used for 10 more years. One might also get broken. When a camera with new features arrive you also have to find it in a suitable phone. You might never like the combination.

Another problem with multi-things is the complex user interface design. A digital camera usually have at least 20 times more settings compared to a camera in a phone. And the phone has zillions of phone settings. Now you want both?

And, if you want to be able to surf on the phone and even look at film, then you need a LARGE screen. Not 3 inch, but 6 inch. And the screen is usually wider than a camera sensor. This will make the camera huge and also remove all buttons on the back.

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Jon Donahue Contributing Member • Posts: 862
Re: Review K3 mark lll?

Oh, you're right. Just my fantasy of one simple gadget that does everything!

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drummercam Senior Member • Posts: 1,951
Re: Review K3 mark lll?

Cartoon in The New Yorker:   Man sits at computer screen, yelling over his shoulder to his wife in the other room.  "Hey, honey!  Come look.  I've found something the entire world has missed."

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flektogon
flektogon Veteran Member • Posts: 5,480
Re: I partially agree but there is more
1

John_A_G wrote:

flektogon wrote:

Don Kiyoti wrote:

By now, there's very little interest in this camera outside of Pentax circles. I just don't think DPReview feels it's worth their time & effort.

Yes, you are absolutely correct! Pentax fans will buy this camera regardless how negative (potentially) such a review would sound, because there is no other Pentax body available. Non Pentax fans will never buy any Pentax body regardless how positive (potentially) such a review would sound, because they have other available bodies/lenses. So, why DPReview should bother?

How much market share does Pentax have? Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc are going to be a higher priority because more people are interested in them. And, in the overall market this camera is evolutionary, not revolutionary. That, I believe, is the primary reason.

Yes, exactly! How many could be interested in such a Pentax camera review? A fraction of those interested in other brands reviews. Now, I am not sure how DPR make such reviews, how thy obtain the cameras/lenses for reviews, etc. But I assume that it it is not free for them. So, money could be behind such reviews as well.

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Regards,
Peter

Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 29,702
Re: Review K3 mark lll?
4

Jon Donahue wrote:

Oh, you're right. Just my fantasy of one simple gadget that does everything!

In my pockets I have a handkerchief, keys, phone, wallet and comb. It would be fantastic if the handkerchief could replace them all, including the trousers.

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John_A_G Veteran Member • Posts: 8,164
Re: I partially agree but there is more
1

Roland Karlsson wrote:

John_A_G wrote:

How much market share does Pentax have? Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc are going to be a higher priority because more people are interested in them. And, in the overall market this camera is evolutionary, not revolutionary. That, I believe, is the primary reason.

The AF improvement is a notch better than evolutionary for Pentax. Yes, others have had it for a long time. But considering Pentax'es uninterest in AF for many years, I salute Pentax for changing their mind.

But, you're also on to something as well. The Pentax faithful will blast every negative comment made about the camera. Just look at any review someone has linked to - there are those faithful that jump out and attack the reviewer.

This I think is unfair. You might have seen some small tendencies maybe, but on the whole I think the Pentax people here have been rather realistic regarding the camera and reviews.

I think the vast majority of owners, just like any brand are fair.  It's a question of the vocal minority who post on DPR.  The majority read and don't post.

As I said above, I think you are a bit unfair to the people commenting here now. I think you are living in the past. Today I think most here are rather realistic why they still use Pentax. It is mostly because they like the cameras. And now, with MILC coming, it is also mostly because they like SLR.

Maybe so.  I just see in every review someone's shown there are stalwarts that jump on and tear apart the reviews.  How many hundreds of posts were there on the bicycle test?  Maybe 90% of those people don't post on DPR anymore.  It is, after all, just my opinion.  But, think on this - all DPR staff has to go on is past experience too.  So, even if this review might be different they're still remembering how prior reviews went.  They're only human too.

Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 12,949
Re: Review K3 mark lll?
1

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Jon Donahue wrote:

Oh, you're right. Just my fantasy of one simple gadget that does everything!

In my pockets I have a handkerchief, keys, phone, wallet and comb. It would be fantastic if the handkerchief could replace them all, including the trousers.

How about a shoe phone? Sounds smart

Alex

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 12,949
Re: Review K3 mark lll?

kriztian wrote:

Will Dpreview ever review the K3 mark lll? It almost Sony everything. Too bad.

And the answer is: very likely, they will.

It might be lower priority (than, say the new Sony vlogging thing) but typically DPReview reviews new Pentax DSLRs... eventually. They would skimp on upgrades, but this is a completely new camera.

And despite my mentioning of various past faults and issues, I expect it will be fairer than some others.

Alex

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miles green
miles green Veteran Member • Posts: 7,827
Re: Review K3 mark lll?

Jon Donahue wrote:

The larger question, Pentax aside, is whether there is any significant future market for cameras other than those in cell phones. Who will buy them once the 60+ age group passes on?

my nieces are both in their early 20ies, they both enjoy using proper cameras when they want to take pictures that are worth taking.

My phone camera is mostly used as a photocopying machine and occasionally a documentation tool.

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Miles Green
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Corfu, Greece
N.B. All my images are protected by Copyright

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 12,949
Re: I partially agree but there is more
5

John_A_G wrote:

flektogon wrote:

Don Kiyoti wrote:

By now, there's very little interest in this camera outside of Pentax circles. I just don't think DPReview feels it's worth their time & effort.

Yes, you are absolutely correct! Pentax fans will buy this camera regardless how negative (potentially) such a review would sound, because there is no other Pentax body available. Non Pentax fans will never buy any Pentax body regardless how positive (potentially) such a review would sound, because they have other available bodies/lenses. So, why DPReview should bother?

How much market share does Pentax have? Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc are going to be a higher priority because more people are interested in them. And, in the overall market this camera is evolutionary, not revolutionary. That, I believe, is the primary reason.

This camera is different - that is, different than what the others are doing. This by itself deserves some coverage. DPReview thought "Yashica" - the obviously fake, useless thing - was different enough; why not the only brand which believes in the future of the SLR photography?

"Revolutionary" quickly becomes uninteresting if it's about improving the exact same thing. Some say the Z9 will be able to shoot at 160fps or something. What was the previous record?

But, you're also on to something as well. The Pentax faithful will blast every negative comment made about the camera. Just look at any review someone has linked to - there are those faithful that jump out and attack the reviewer.

This is Othering us - on our very own forum section.

The fact is, in many cases we do have a point. Even if it's something as small as testing a camera's AF-C in Release Priority mode instead of Focus Priority.

So, now you're DPR - you get income based on add clicks. So, you're going to publish a review less people will read and thus click on adds

Should news sites only present news which they know to get them income based on add clicks? What if changing the news a bit would get them more money, should they do it?

Income is important, but it's not all that matters.

and you're going to get endless grief for anything perceived by the faithful as suggesting the camera isn't the greatest invention of our time.

Except nobody here thinks like that, and I was paying attention.

I think if the faithful who always slam these reviewers had to write reviews of non Pentax gear and get slammed by others for their reviews, they'd be less keen on doing it. Especially, when it makes more business sense to review cameras more of the market is interested in anyway.

No. We're not at fault for seeing "WaterFAILS" for what it was. We're not at fault for observing testing errors. We're not at fault for pointing out to various inconsistencies.

And definitely, just by being fewer in numbers doesn't mean we should keep quiet.

Alex

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Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 29,702
Re: I partially agree but there is more
1

John_A_G wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

John_A_G wrote:

How much market share does Pentax have? Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc are going to be a higher priority because more people are interested in them. And, in the overall market this camera is evolutionary, not revolutionary. That, I believe, is the primary reason.

The AF improvement is a notch better than evolutionary for Pentax. Yes, others have had it for a long time. But considering Pentax'es uninterest in AF for many years, I salute Pentax for changing their mind.

But, you're also on to something as well. The Pentax faithful will blast every negative comment made about the camera. Just look at any review someone has linked to - there are those faithful that jump out and attack the reviewer.

This I think is unfair. You might have seen some small tendencies maybe, but on the whole I think the Pentax people here have been rather realistic regarding the camera and reviews.

I think the vast majority of owners, just like any brand are fair. It's a question of the vocal minority who post on DPR. The majority read and don't post.

As I said above, I think you are a bit unfair to the people commenting here now. I think you are living in the past. Today I think most here are rather realistic why they still use Pentax. It is mostly because they like the cameras. And now, with MILC coming, it is also mostly because they like SLR.

Maybe so. I just see in every review someone's shown there are stalwarts that jump on and tear apart the reviews. How many hundreds of posts were there on the bicycle test? Maybe 90% of those people don't post on DPR anymore. It is, after all, just my opinion. But, think on this - all DPR staff has to go on is past experience too. So, even if this review might be different they're still remembering how prior reviews went. They're only human too.

The bicycle test is something from the medevial ages, long since past. Yes, there were heated discussions regarding this test. Partly fair and partly unfair complaints.

The test was not good, but ... the AF in the Pentax cameras was not good either. So, this not so good test actually, by chance, was (kind of) right

But, enough of this already. Today I do not see so much unreasonable defense against any review claims. The only one I can remember is that som have defended the price.

But, of course that silly vlogger that hates Pentax. If that is what you are thinking of. I think that silly person brings it upon himself, and maybe that is his plan also. But I think people here handles that stupid stuff quite fine.

Note that the vlogger guy is not 100% wrong. It is mainly how he present it and what he chooses to show. And, no one do believe that the K-3 III constantly under exposes several stops. Why should it?

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/Roland
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brett nz
brett nz Contributing Member • Posts: 597
Re: Review K3 mark lll?
1

I suspect they are going above and beyond to be fair with this review and may have even gone back to Pentax for another copy to be sure of issues - it is an important review for them as many like me come here less and less as we have seen the greatest of our gear like the K1 and K3 originals never get the praise they should have and it seems the K3 III has some serious philosophies of design to discuss - I just hope to god for a K1 with K3III autofocus and more buffer speed within a year as my K1 is now five years old and I do not want the detail loss of a K1 II.

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solarider Veteran Member • Posts: 4,902
Re: I partially agree but there is more
2

John_A_G wrote:

flektogon wrote:

Don Kiyoti wrote:

By now, there's very little interest in this camera outside of Pentax circles. I just don't think DPReview feels it's worth their time & effort.

Yes, you are absolutely correct! Pentax fans will buy this camera regardless how negative (potentially) such a review would sound, because there is no other Pentax body available. Non Pentax fans will never buy any Pentax body regardless how positive (potentially) such a review would sound, because they have other available bodies/lenses. So, why DPReview should bother?

How much market share does Pentax have? Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc are going to be a higher priority because more people are interested in them. And, in the overall market this camera is evolutionary, not revolutionary. That, I believe, is the primary reason.

But, you're also on to something as well. The Pentax faithful will blast every negative comment made about the camera. Just look at any review someone has linked to - there are those faithful that jump out and attack the reviewer.

So, now you're DPR - you get income based on add clicks. So, you're going to publish a review less people will read and thus click on adds and you're going to get endless grief for anything perceived by the faithful as suggesting the camera isn't the greatest invention of our time.

I think if the faithful who always slam these reviewers had to write reviews of non Pentax gear and get slammed by others for their reviews, they'd be less keen on doing it. Especially, when it makes more business sense to review cameras more of the market is interested in anyway.

Absolutely spot on.

The slamming and its slammerers would keep anyone away -- why should they bother?

DougOB
DougOB Senior Member • Posts: 2,462
Re: Review K3 mark lll?
3

brett nz wrote:

I suspect they are going above and beyond to be fair with this review and may have even gone back to Pentax for another copy to be sure of issues - it is an important review for them as many like me come here less and less as we have seen the greatest of our gear like the K1 and K3 originals never get the praise they should have and it seems the K3 III has some serious philosophies of design to discuss - I just hope to god for a K1 with K3III autofocus and more buffer speed within a year as my K1 is now five years old and I do not want the detail loss of a K1 II.

You will wait a long time.  The K-1iii will most certainly have the accelerator chip with noise reduction.

Doug

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JeremieB Senior Member • Posts: 1,282
Re: I partially agree but there is more

John_A_G wrote:

flektogon wrote:

Don Kiyoti wrote:

By now, there's very little interest in this camera outside of Pentax circles. I just don't think DPReview feels it's worth their time & effort.

Yes, you are absolutely correct! Pentax fans will buy this camera regardless how negative (potentially) such a review would sound, because there is no other Pentax body available. Non Pentax fans will never buy any Pentax body regardless how positive (potentially) such a review would sound, because they have other available bodies/lenses. So, why DPReview should bother?

How much market share does Pentax have? Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc are going to be a higher priority because more people are interested in them. And, in the overall market this camera is evolutionary, not revolutionary. That, I believe, is the primary reason.

But, you're also on to something as well. The Pentax faithful will blast every negative comment made about the camera. Just look at any review someone has linked to - there are those faithful that jump out and attack the reviewer.

So, now you're DPR - you get income based on add clicks. So, you're going to publish a review less people will read and thus click on adds and you're going to get endless grief for anything perceived by the faithful as suggesting the camera isn't the greatest invention of our time.

I think if the faithful who always slam these reviewers had to write reviews of non Pentax gear and get slammed by others for their reviews, they'd be less keen on doing it.

Only if reviewers accept to make cameras then to get slammed by buyers and reviewers, to see if they're still keen on doing it in their reviews.

Especially, when it makes more business sense to review cameras more of the market is interested in anyway.

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Photoeer New Member • Posts: 14
Re: I expect they will not
1

I was questioning your statement that there is little interest about this camera outside of Pentax users.

henricoo Regular Member • Posts: 115
Re: Review K3 mark lll?
1

Interesting article now on DPR about low light performance / high ISO shooting and megapixels. Noise reduction to improve IQ seems no longer an issue anymore because IQ is not about pixel peeping but judging the final result. I really have not a single complain about the IQ of the K1ii at higher ISO's. Besides the baked in NR in the RAW files I apply some more NR with PS to get the best results. I doubt using a native K1 would result to any better pictures than the K1ii delivers. And most nowadays high end cameras apply NR in RAW files at higher ISO's because it results in cleaner images > 400 ISO. So in the end that discussions were a hoax after all...

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Jon Donahue Contributing Member • Posts: 862
Re: Review K3 mark lll?

A good video. For prints of any size, you want no less than 250 ppi for sharp top quality. Which, for large prints over 11x17, certainly favors large MP sensor cameras.

But then he talks about the rest of us... for pix shown on the internet to viewers with laptops and smartphones. For pix for magazines and newspapers. Where the max picture size is so, so much smaller than for art prints. And for us, at least for me, my K-70 24 MP image size is more than enough. Doubt I'd ever need more that 10 MP if I never cropped the pictures, but I do.

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