Tedolph can save Olympus!

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on  Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

You overlook the quintessential question: Why on earth would anyone want to do it in the first place?

The RF was made obsolete for ILC purposes by the SLR more than 50 years ago. And the SLR is now made obsolete by the EVF.

So face it Tedolph, the RF is dead, stone dead. Long live live view!😎

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

Doesn’t work that way.

Anders W wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

You overlook the quintessential question: Why on earth would anyone want to do it in the first place?

The RF was made obsolete for ILC purposes by the SLR more than 50 years ago. And the SLR is now made obsolete by the EVF.

So face it Tedolph, the RF is dead, stone dead. Long live live view!😎

Finally!  Someone addresses the issue posited in the original post.  Yes, why would someone want to do this? That is the issue I had hoped you would all discuss.

So, here is how I see it: the market has become technologically mature. All cameras exceed most photographers actual technical needs. Camera resolution far exceeds the resolution of any current output media, AF systems long ago exceeded anybody's requirements except for maybe BIFs (and nobody takes those pictures anyway), etc. So how can Olympus survive? Well they largely gave up the size advantage by abandoning the GM5, Pen mini, etc. Other manufacturers who had nothing much to offer, e.g. Fuji (Xtrans was a bust) did so with gimmicks. Sony had a really skinny body.  Fuji had the retro controls-without that I don't think they would have made it. Leica had the whole manual rangefinder thing with the Live View back up. Nikon just came out with their own super retro model and it looks like it is going to be a super success. So, can Olympus jump on that bandwagon? The Pen F was a swing and a miss. Oly certainly knows how to make compact optical RF cameras, so my question is would an Olympus m4/3 Leica M9 clone have any commercial legs?

Oh, and thank you Anders for getting this thread on topic.

Tedolph

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

Doesn’t work that way.

Again, why not?

Tedolph

tedolf wrote:

Anders W wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

You overlook the quintessential question: Why on earth would anyone want to do it in the first place?

The RF was made obsolete for ILC purposes by the SLR more than 50 years ago. And the SLR is now made obsolete by the EVF.

So face it Tedolph, the RF is dead, stone dead. Long live live view!😎

Finally! Someone addresses the issue posited in the original post. Yes, why would someone want to do this? That is the issue I had hoped you would all discuss.

So, here is how I see it: the market has become technologically mature. All cameras exceed most photographers actual technical needs. Camera resolution far exceeds the resolution of any current output media, AF systems long ago exceeded anybody's requirements except for maybe BIFs (and nobody takes those pictures anyway), etc. So how can Olympus survive? Well they largely gave up the size advantage by abandoning the GM5, Pen mini, etc. Other manufacturers who had nothing much to offer, e.g. Fuji (Xtrans was a bust) did so with gimmicks. Sony had a really skinny body. Fuji had the retro controls-without that I don't think they would have made it. Leica had the whole manual rangefinder thing with the Live View back up. Nikon just came out with their own super retro model and it looks like it is going to be a super success. So, can Olympus jump on that bandwagon? The Pen F was a swing and a miss. Oly certainly knows how to make compact optical RF cameras, so my question is would an Olympus m4/3 Leica M9 clone have any commercial legs?

Oh, and thank you Anders for getting this thread on topic.

Tedolph

Happy to help you draw attention to the question you want us to focus on. Glad to help you answer it too, as I already did. Commercial legs? No, not even crutches.🤓

As to the PEN-F, I find it hard to tell whether it was hit or miss commercially for lack of data. But I think the very high second-hand prices (for a five-year old body) should tell OMDS that there is a market for a successor. IMHO, it should come with a feature set similar to that of the E-M5 series and differ only in stylistic regards.

tedolf wrote:

Anders W wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

You overlook the quintessential question: Why on earth would anyone want to do it in the first place?

The RF was made obsolete for ILC purposes by the SLR more than 50 years ago. And the SLR is now made obsolete by the EVF.

So face it Tedolph, the RF is dead, stone dead. Long live live view!😎

Finally! Someone addresses the issue posited in the original post. Yes, why would someone want to do this? That is the issue I had hoped you would all discuss.

So, here is how I see it: the market has become technologically mature. All cameras exceed most photographers actual technical needs. Camera resolution far exceeds the resolution of any current output media, AF systems long ago exceeded anybody's requirements except for maybe BIFs (and nobody takes those pictures anyway), etc. So how can Olympus survive? Well they largely gave up the size advantage by abandoning the GM5, Pen mini, etc. Other manufacturers who had nothing much to offer, e.g. Fuji (Xtrans was a bust) did so with gimmicks. Sony had a really skinny body. Fuji had the retro controls-without that I don't think they would have made it. Leica had the whole manual rangefinder thing with the Live View back up. Nikon just came out with their own super retro model and it looks like it is going to be a super success. So, can Olympus jump on that bandwagon? The Pen F was a swing and a miss. Oly certainly knows how to make compact optical RF cameras, so my question is would an Olympus m4/3 Leica M9 clone have any commercial legs?

Oh, and thank you Anders for getting this thread on topic.

Tedolph

Now you have made .your proposition clear - I don't agree.  I too thank Anders for cutting through the paragraphs of words.

Why not start again with a poll and try and explain your proposition without the distracting attempt at humour and in less than 200 words.  Can you make it clear whether this is just a single model as part of a wider range of bodies and lenses (a system) or whether you are proposing a complete business plan for OMDS.

Then we will see what proportion of the community agree with the proposition.

The future of OMDS is important to a lot of us and deserves a serious discussion or you can be clear that this thread is just light-hearted entertainment, as it first appeared.

Any camera and lens company needs to attract enough people to pay enough across enough niches to cover both the cost of developing and making each product and collectively the overheads of branding, distribution, cost-of-capital etc.  The question is not what you want to pay for but what others want to pay for.  If you look at Sony's success over the last few years, it doesn't fit your preconceptions.

Andrew

PS The GM5 was a Panasonic camera, although maybe you knew that.

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

Doesn’t work that way.

Again, why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room. And you have to have rangefinder coupled lenses. Simply adding a focus cam won’t work. A rangefinder mechanism is much more complicated than that. Three lenses would not be enough choices. The lenses also need to have dof scales to be true rangefinder.

Anders W wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Anders W wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

You overlook the quintessential question: Why on earth would anyone want to do it in the first place?

The RF was made obsolete for ILC purposes by the SLR more than 50 years ago. And the SLR is now made obsolete by the EVF.

So face it Tedolph, the RF is dead, stone dead. Long live live view!😎

Finally! Someone addresses the issue posited in the original post. Yes, why would someone want to do this? That is the issue I had hoped you would all discuss.

So, here is how I see it: the market has become technologically mature. All cameras exceed most photographers actual technical needs. Camera resolution far exceeds the resolution of any current output media, AF systems long ago exceeded anybody's requirements except for maybe BIFs (and nobody takes those pictures anyway), etc. So how can Olympus survive? Well they largely gave up the size advantage by abandoning the GM5, Pen mini, etc. Other manufacturers who had nothing much to offer, e.g. Fuji (Xtrans was a bust) did so with gimmicks. Sony had a really skinny body. Fuji had the retro controls-without that I don't think they would have made it. Leica had the whole manual rangefinder thing with the Live View back up. Nikon just came out with their own super retro model and it looks like it is going to be a super success. So, can Olympus jump on that bandwagon? The Pen F was a swing and a miss. Oly certainly knows how to make compact optical RF cameras, so my question is would an Olympus m4/3 Leica M9 clone have any commercial legs?

Oh, and thank you Anders for getting this thread on topic.

Tedolph

Happy to help you draw attention to the question you want us to focus on. Glad to help you answer it too, as I already did. Commercial legs? No, not even crutches.🤓

As to the PEN-F, I find it hard to tell whether it was hit or miss commercially for lack of data. But I think the very high second-hand prices (for a five-year old body) should tell OMDS that there is a market for a successor. IMHO, it should come with a feature set similar to that of the E-M5 series and differ only in stylistic regards.

So, how do you explain the continued success of the Leica M cameras?

Tedolph

ahaslett wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Anders W wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

You overlook the quintessential question: Why on earth would anyone want to do it in the first place?

The RF was made obsolete for ILC purposes by the SLR more than 50 years ago. And the SLR is now made obsolete by the EVF.

So face it Tedolph, the RF is dead, stone dead. Long live live view!😎

Finally! Someone addresses the issue posited in the original post. Yes, why would someone want to do this? That is the issue I had hoped you would all discuss.

So, here is how I see it: the market has become technologically mature. All cameras exceed most photographers actual technical needs. Camera resolution far exceeds the resolution of any current output media, AF systems long ago exceeded anybody's requirements except for maybe BIFs (and nobody takes those pictures anyway), etc. So how can Olympus survive? Well they largely gave up the size advantage by abandoning the GM5, Pen mini, etc. Other manufacturers who had nothing much to offer, e.g. Fuji (Xtrans was a bust) did so with gimmicks. Sony had a really skinny body. Fuji had the retro controls-without that I don't think they would have made it. Leica had the whole manual rangefinder thing with the Live View back up. Nikon just came out with their own super retro model and it looks like it is going to be a super success. So, can Olympus jump on that bandwagon? The Pen F was a swing and a miss. Oly certainly knows how to make compact optical RF cameras, so my question is would an Olympus m4/3 Leica M9 clone have any commercial legs?

Oh, and thank you Anders for getting this thread on topic.

Tedolph

Now you have made .your proposition clear - I don't agree. I too thank Anders for cutting through the paragraphs of words.

Why not start again with a poll and try and explain your proposition without the distracting attempt at humour and in less than 200 words.

Well, you can be sure that Tedolph will not be taking you to any comedy clubs!

Can you make it clear whether this is just a single model as part of a wider range of bodies and lenses (a system) or whether you are proposing a complete business plan for OMDS.

What is it you don't understand? It is a regular m4/3 camera with an optical RF module and three existing lenses with RF cams glued on the back. Re-read the original post, it is all there.

Oh I forgot, you can't make it past 200 words.

Then we will see what proportion of the community agree with the proposition.

It is a proposition-it doesn't require agreement. It invites comment and discussion.

The future of OMDS is important to a lot of us and deserves a serious discussion or you can be clear that this thread is just light-hearted entertainment, as it first appeared.

I know, it is complex for you. We understand. Maybe it is just too hard....

Any camera and lens company needs to attract enough people to pay enough across enough niches to cover both the cost of developing and making each product and collectively the overheads of branding, distribution, cost-of-capital etc. The question is not what you want to pay for but what others want to pay for. If you look at Sony's success over the last few years, it doesn't fit your preconceptions.

Andrew

PS The GM5 was a Panasonic camera, although maybe you knew that.

It is not a wonder why Tedolph dies not post much in this forum anymore.

Sheesh......

Tedolph

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

Doesn’t work that way.

Again, why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room. And you have to have rangefinder coupled lenses. Simply adding a focus cam won’t work. A rangefinder mechanism is much more complicated than that. Three lenses would not be enough choices. The lenses also need to have dof scales to be true rangefinder.

Good God, did you read the original post? Olympus has lots of lenses with focusing and DOF scales.

Tedolph

AdamT wrote:

So, here is the plan: Olympus uses the old E-p5 body,

Olympus already saved itself, it dumped the camera division onto JIP and is now concentrating stuff which makes it money -

......whether you can save OMDS is another matter---- hey you maybe in with a shot.. I couldn`t care less about the cameras but if you`ve any ideas to pass on to them for more Pro zooms - however whacky, go for it . a couple of affordable F4 teles would be nice

I must admit, that was a clever answer.

Tedolph

tedolf wrote:

Anders W wrote:

You overlook the quintessential question: Why on earth would anyone want to do it in the first place?

The RF was made obsolete for ILC purposes by the SLR more than 50 years ago. And the SLR is now made obsolete by the EVF.

So face it Tedolph, the RF is dead, stone dead. Long live live view!😎

so my question is would an Olympus m4/3 Leica M9 clone have any commercial legs?

This one is easy . Absolutely NO . crazy idea . But not to worry. it is not going to happen

tedolf wrote:

ahaslett wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Anders W wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

You can’t put a rangefinder in a ep5 body.

Why not?

Tedolph

Not enough room and Oly lenses are not rangefinder coupled.

Plenty of room if you take out the flash. Look at the rangefinder module on Bessa R or an old Leica CL (film). They are tiny. obviously you have to add the rangefinder cam to the back of the lens but again it is tiny on the wider angle lenses. Maybe sticks out 3-4 mm?

Tedolph

You overlook the quintessential question: Why on earth would anyone want to do it in the first place?

The RF was made obsolete for ILC purposes by the SLR more than 50 years ago. And the SLR is now made obsolete by the EVF.

So face it Tedolph, the RF is dead, stone dead. Long live live view!😎

Finally! Someone addresses the issue posited in the original post. Yes, why would someone want to do this? That is the issue I had hoped you would all discuss.

So, here is how I see it: the market has become technologically mature. All cameras exceed most photographers actual technical needs. Camera resolution far exceeds the resolution of any current output media, AF systems long ago exceeded anybody's requirements except for maybe BIFs (and nobody takes those pictures anyway), etc. So how can Olympus survive? Well they largely gave up the size advantage by abandoning the GM5, Pen mini, etc. Other manufacturers who had nothing much to offer, e.g. Fuji (Xtrans was a bust) did so with gimmicks. Sony had a really skinny body. Fuji had the retro controls-without that I don't think they would have made it. Leica had the whole manual rangefinder thing with the Live View back up. Nikon just came out with their own super retro model and it looks like it is going to be a super success. So, can Olympus jump on that bandwagon? The Pen F was a swing and a miss. Oly certainly knows how to make compact optical RF cameras, so my question is would an Olympus m4/3 Leica M9 clone have any commercial legs?

Oh, and thank you Anders for getting this thread on topic.

Tedolph

Now you have made .your proposition clear - I don't agree. I too thank Anders for cutting through the paragraphs of words.

Why not start again with a poll and try and explain your proposition without the distracting attempt at humour and in less than 200 words.

Well, you can be sure that Tedolph will not be taking you to any comedy clubs!

Can you make it clear whether this is just a single model as part of a wider range of bodies and lenses (a system) or whether you are proposing a complete business plan for OMDS.

What is it you don't understand? It is a regular m4/3 camera with an optical RF module and three existing lenses with RF cams glued on the back. Re-read the original post, it is all there.

Oh I forgot, you can't make it past 200 words.

Then we will see what proportion of the community agree with the proposition.

It is a proposition-it doesn't require agreement. It invites comment and discussion.

The future of OMDS is important to a lot of us and deserves a serious discussion or you can be clear that this thread is just light-hearted entertainment, as it first appeared.

I know, it is complex for you. We understand. Maybe it is just too hard....

Any camera and lens company needs to attract enough people to pay enough across enough niches to cover both the cost of developing and making each product and collectively the overheads of branding, distribution, cost-of-capital etc. The question is not what you want to pay for but what others want to pay for. If you look at Sony's success over the last few years, it doesn't fit your preconceptions.

Andrew

PS The GM5 was a Panasonic camera, although maybe you knew that.

It is not a wonder why Tedolph dies not post much in this forum anymore.

Sheesh......

Tedolph

Don't worry - I'll be staying out of your threads.

Andrew