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Re: No rush, but do it ;-)
Tom Caldwell wrote:
Raist3d wrote:
Tom Caldwell wrote:
the do it is to be you know - market competitive and make money You are not forced to buy one
Agreed, that was why the GM series, and presumably, the Pen-F failed. I liked the idea of the Pen-F and would have bought one despite the silly retro front dial but the side hinged lcd made it a bridge too far. My money as you correctly pointed out.
Raist3d wrote:
been thinking about this as I love the size of the EP7- and its weight. And was also thinking what technologies within reach OMDS has at its disposal to make for what would be a decent upgrade or upscale model.
- Make an all black body or black with "metallic grey" on the top- call it the E-Pen Pro or E-Pen Stealth
All black ok
- Use a PDAF sensor. Even current 20 MP higher resfresh/pdaf of EM5.3 would do.
Panasonic does ok with their CDAF, but I would not stand in the way of PDAF
- Allow for an attachable small EVF. Not the one they did for EP5 and others, but a small one that would be a pretty small square that would go on the flash socket with connectors. This can be sold in a kit or separately. Even if it's a pricey accessory some will like it, but don't make it tillable, just focus on making it small, still OLED.
No,no,no ….NO Why make a nice compact flat top body then have to stick a temporary evf on top to make it more faux-dslr shape.
yiu can do like Nikon 1 v3 evf why? Keep the camera smaller as an option, allow tocharge extra for making a profit
That did not save the Nikon 1.
that doesn’t apply these are completely different and different system cameras with different levels of support Nikon 1 died evf or not - doesn’t matter
At least with the GM series the system survives without the GM series
You mean m43rds I guess? the lenses carry on
and the lenses bought for the GM series can be used on other camera bodies.
Flat top bodies pack better. Stick on evf either stays on permanently or gets left behind because bag is too small. Why buy an expensive clip on when it is cheaper overall to build one into the body.
becuase it may not be in the form factor of the ep7
They would either have to reduce the size of the lcd or make a pop-up flash like the RX100. The works of an evf must cost much the same to make but separating them makes for “two sales” and separate margins.
it can be bundled uou give an upgrade path at a lower price of entry
It also means that the clip-on evf sells in smaller numbers and therefore carries stocking-risk and therefore needs a higher relative margin - makes clip on evf relatively more expensive in the market place.
sire I can be a little procier but you can also sell bundles
I have never warmed to clipon evf and I avoid them as much as I avoid side-hinged lcd.
Ok
I vote ”do a GM5” and swap potentially useless flash for small built in evf -
tell that to Panasonic
even if it is an excuse for some to moan about the “small evf”. The GM5 evf does the job I expect of it. They could then provide a little clip on flash like what came with the GM5 which is good enough for fill-flash. Most times I can easily leave the flash behind ….
again tell that to Panasonic Ep7 has pretty decent ibis, and nice tilt lcd
I will happily sacrifice for the smaller body size of the GM5 series. Better still …. I am already well stocked with GM5 camera bodies
So once again, why bring the gm5 into this thread ? This is about the ep7 , an upper brother camera and what OMDS could currently do You can have 100 gm5 a in every single color Panasonic made them and it doesn’t change it
- Weather sealed
I am ambiguous on this one - I don’t need it personally. This seems a cold-wet weather land wish. Few camera bodies are truly weather sealed anyway.
yes but they do exist it would make for a rugged go anywhere camera Ireland and UK would appreciate it too would make the camera more competitive in the market
Maybe so but (lack of) cost sells. I have had my first GM1 seriously wet a couple of times and seven years or so down the track it is still working “as new”.
Its a risk that will go bad over its lifetime
I would not not pay more for authentic weather sealed body and necessary weather sealed lenses. At the coal face the lens on my GM1 was getting so wet that I had to constantly wipe it to get a half decent image.
ok
- (extra credit) Put tripod super high res or maybe ONLY HHHR.
- Pump that IBIS to 5, though at 4.5 is still pretty good. To be frank it's sort of a mixable they were able to make the camera virtually as big as an EPL9/10, yet lighter, which much better IBIS
GM5 works fine without IBIS and image stabilised lenses are a nice bonus.
yes that’s the gm5 - the camera that no longer exists I am talking about an upper range evf Tell Panasonic to do a gm9!
A larger evf would make the GM5 a quite different camera type and would lose quite a lot of its tiny,simplistic, rugged, attraction.
mad I said we are talking about the ep7, not the gm5 or gm5 successor tell that to Panasonic
I am quite happy with the evf as it presently is. As much as E-P7 users must be happy with no evf whatsoever.
and again? That’s all good becuase I am not disputing your like of gm5 we are not talking about em5 but ep7 and what could be done with the resources OMDS has
One seriously wonders just why dslr bodies were so popular for so long with only stabilised lenses on offer. Not even a whiff of IBIS ….
rhta was the and this is now having ibis on the size of the ep7 makes it kore competitive in the todays market
you can use all those smaller primes that doesn’t have OIS
I live with them and no stabilisation whatsoever - no sweat. What is wrong with young folks these days …. Shaky hands?
IBIS is a bit like auto-transmission - one less more thing to learn.
I agree ibis isn’t the end all be all but it’s nice to have the kore nice to haves a camera has the better it looks in the market
it’s no deal breaker for me either but given OMdShas a great reputation here and works so well when it does, it’s a unique proposition at that size in the market or makes it more unique
your care here for it is not quite relevant
- USB-C charging/port
- Allow for live ND
- Make that F1.4 20mm rumored prime weather sealed and in kit form ready for this
- Dampen the mechanical shutter a bit more
- Allow to set focus priority on any C-AF mode.
- Allow to set EV compensation in full manual mode (can't on EM10MKIV, EP7)
Maybe I am missing something here but I always thought that the idea with manual mode was to get the direct exposure estimation from visual feedback by manipulating the shutter speed and aperture alone.
yes you are missing something - you can do exposure compensation with the iso while setting the aperture and shutter uiu want - and let the Xander’s take care of sudden exposure changes Many cameras do this today - so just saying would be nice
changing the iso manually gives you ev compensation for static scene but not dynamic scenes
I was thinking about setting EV dials - I stand corrected - thank you.
So set make the settings and then decide that they are “wrong” and that then we have to give the camera a nudge to fix the shutter speed we have selected?
in manual mode that would be the auto iso it’s not new The penf can do this
- Maybe have EV dial or button somewhere else to hold+ dial set
Not into cluttering top plate space with unnecessary dials.
it can make for a look and mechanical usability but I’ll concede it may clutter a bit much
- Switch for MF-> current AF mode. This could be on the side.
The Panasonic GX85 took this away allowing the camera body to sense MF by lack of AF input or the switch on the lens. But it came back with the GX9. Effectively only necessary for switching focus peaking off/on?
olympus doesn’t have a switch on the lens in many of them again talking about ep7
I still like a switch on the body even if the lens has one as well.
Ok we sort of agree here
- Put on dial C1 and C2. Or at least one C. Maybe put one C and allow the settings to change ART mode to C2.
- $300-$400 USD more than EP7 (that would mean $1100/$1200 USD MSRP).
Olympus seems to have scaled its models by features so that “lower” models don’t steal business from its premium lines. They are hardly willing to cannibalise their E-M1iv market and kill off their entry-level “buy on price” market.
not sure how that changes what I proposed I am putting a higher price It’s also a completely different line and form factor
I think that was what the Pen-F was supposed to be - a top-range RF style body. But then they used a side hinged lcd and it was neither video moose nor compact high-level stills horse.
they made imho a few mistakes and at the price it simply had to perform better
The EP7/pens are being advertised a bit as "bling" cameras- they could advertise this as a "bling pro" camera. Have some cool dude/girl on the ads photographing fashion, weddings, street. A bit more than just "travel & friends-lifestyle."
Hard to do this without providing a built in evf.
why not? Fill medium format cameras were used viewing at them with no optical tunnels I honestly don’t see it
Make it more expensive and the market result is a Pen-F.
don’t think so penf failed because it was missing imho some key things at its price PDAF/ af/ camera response Fas instead of tilt
The Pen-F might have indeed sold a whole lot better by using a simple tilt hinged. lcd - no more. But retro says “fold the lcd inwards to look faux film-era cool”.
man’s they did that wrong as the faux leather doesn’t match the pattern and look of the camera body you can add that one too
Panasonic tried to make a basic-featured but well built and very capable camera as the GM1/5 but the market did not like the same price Panasonic thought was “neat”. At the end of the day users like to get lots of “features” in their expensive camera bodies even if they never figure out how to use all of them.
you should speak for yourself
The trouble is that it is proved impossible to fit a camera body up with all the slick features that the market demands. No way a GM5 size can come with IBIS and fast video.
I am not talking at all about a gm5 in this thread but if a super ep7 and technologies the company already has available to it to make it quite possible in pragmatic terms
Sorry, but the GM series springs to mind as a physically-small, well-made camera body that lacked many of the popular attributes that were moaned about quite a lot. It was also introduced at prices that made the buying market gasp. The launch price might not be such an issue with the E-P7 of course.
yes but my point is we aren’t talking about the GM line Again - send letters to Oa Al’s if he’ll I would sign up for a gm9
the gm5 does not enter this conversation much less trying to compare a 5+ year old camera - the world has loved on a lot since then and tech marches forward
I am not sure just how much tech has marched forward. Sensors have come and processing engines have improved video. But as far as camera bodies and what they can do for basic photography then maybe not nearly as much.
from back then having Padang, double refresh sensors, slightly better dr/ color I’ll take those
and once again I am not talking about a gm5 I am talking about an ep7 an ep7 already has pretty good ibis and surprisingly decent video
This is good if you need those features, and I personally don’t need them. This leaves my GM5 smaller and still very capable 16Mp sensor.
But once again we are not talking about the gm5 or what works for you it’s simply seems you are simply not interested in the body I describe that’s fine but I see it as pointless to bring the gm5 in this conversation
The former seems to have become an essential to sell any camera body and the latter is heading that way even if many of us don’t “do” video.
I think they have most of these technologies ready. Weather sealing would be probably a pain to research in this small size, so if that needs to be dropped, so be it.
Thoughts? Yes/No? Too much? What's the point? Yay and amazing?
Would love to hear your thoughts.
Solution is easy:
Either
1) Pen-F with tilt lcd (expensive)
that’s possible PDAF too I would say try to focus on the ep7 size though
2) EP-7 with flash swapped for evf (cheaper and no more is necessary)
pdaf
My GM5 looks more and more attractive every day ….. no rush
Yes the gm5 is nice yes I have two And yet I like the ep7 at this point more I just can’t go back to a dr challenged AA filtered 16mp sensor with the better 20 pm around
the gm5 line is dead long live it ask Panasonic to revive it I have no idea why you bring the gm5 into this discussion this is about what OMDS can do with what they have in an ep7 form factor
Only because I have suggested GM1->GM5 swapped flash for evf and there is no way I could buy an E-P7 without an evf. It might have 20Mp, IBIS, and decent video. It might be compact but not nearly as compact as the GM5. If looking for a mid-sized camera body my GX9 is still looking pretty good. I have one - already bought and paid for.
map for uou it doesn’t work I think that much is clear every time you have said gm5 here
as for me I also hav e a gx9 but the rear dial failed on me within 6 months it’s the second (third?) Panasonic camera doing this to me
my epl9 never did so I expect to ep7 to do better here the gx9 is bigger, has worse af in accuracy than the epl9/ep7, worse color it’s higher and heavier Worse ibis
very nice camera if it was a bit mote
comfortable To hold and was more reliable in its build
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Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
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