PetaPixel K-3 Mark III Review

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 12,800
Re: agree

petreluk wrote:

John_A_G wrote:

bob5050 wrote:

ivarbg wrote:

There is no doubt K3 III is the Pentax flagship APSC DSLR. But the exorbitant price kills the enthusiasm. And the big viewfinder is a marketing decoy rather unnecessary as it has no relation to the image quality at all, but pretext for high price.

IThat being the case, Pentax has quite correctly identified its most salient market differentiator for its bodies: the shooting experience--including having an actual OVF.

This is it - This is the differentiator that's going to make or break Pentax. IBIS used to be a differentiator, but it isn't anymore. The OVF and (user experience) is what they're banking on. There are always minor things one system does better than another, but there are usually major differentiators which drive new consumers toward a given system.

We just have to wait a year to find out if the people saying the price is too high are an accurate representation of the market or not. No one on DPR knows that. We'll see if it's true when we see if the camera is discounted

Good point, but isn’t the problem with the OVF that it’s still APS-C and can be bettered simply by moving to FF which these days isn’t likely to be that much more expensive?

It seems you haven't seen the K-3iii's viewfinder. I did. Easily as good as the K-1's (or other similar cameras).

And if Pentax will apply the same technology for the next K-1...

Alex

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The Squirrel Mafia
The Squirrel Mafia Contributing Member • Posts: 821
Re: agree

Alex Sarbu wrote:

And if Pentax will apply the same technology for the next K-1...

It'll be like looking into a medium format viewfinder.

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Mark Ransom
Mark Ransom Veteran Member • Posts: 7,672
Re: agree
1

petreluk wrote:

John_A_G wrote:

This is it - This is the differentiator that's going to make or break Pentax. IBIS used to be a differentiator, but it isn't anymore. The OVF and (user experience) is what they're banking on. There are always minor things one system does better than another, but there are usually major differentiators which drive new consumers toward a given system.

We just have to wait a year to find out if the people saying the price is too high are an accurate representation of the market or not. No one on DPR knows that. We'll see if it's true when we see if the camera is discounted

Good point, but isn’t the problem with the OVF that it’s still APS-C and can be bettered simply by moving to FF which these days isn’t likely to be that much more expensive? It depends on what lenses someone has, of course, but I’d guess the third factor here is that Pentax is banking on loyal long-term customers ponying up come what may.

In the case of Pentax isn't it already true that FF and APS-C are the same price - namely the K-1 II and K-3 III?  But Pentax got a lot of feedback that FF was not for everybody and they couldn't neglect APS-C so they didn't.

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MyReality
MyReality Senior Member • Posts: 2,134
Re: PetaPixel K-3 Mark III Review
1

Agree.  They need a large increase in marketing and advertising.  I think they could generate a lot more revenue if they did something like what Canon did with the Rebel and Andre Agassi, but they may not have the funds for that.  When Canon promoted the Rebel on TV, they had a large increase in sales.

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petreluk Senior Member • Posts: 1,645
Re: agree
3

Mark Ransom wrote:

petreluk wrote:

John_A_G wrote:

This is it - This is the differentiator that's going to make or break Pentax. IBIS used to be a differentiator, but it isn't anymore. The OVF and (user experience) is what they're banking on. There are always minor things one system does better than another, but there are usually major differentiators which drive new consumers toward a given system.

We just have to wait a year to find out if the people saying the price is too high are an accurate representation of the market or not. No one on DPR knows that. We'll see if it's true when we see if the camera is discounted

Good point, but isn’t the problem with the OVF that it’s still APS-C and can be bettered simply by moving to FF which these days isn’t likely to be that much more expensive? It depends on what lenses someone has, of course, but I’d guess the third factor here is that Pentax is banking on loyal long-term customers ponying up come what may.

In the case of Pentax isn't it already true that FF and APS-C are the same price - namely the K-1 II and K-3 III? But Pentax got a lot of feedback that FF was not for everybody and they couldn't neglect APS-C so they didn't.

Which pretty well confirms the point that while some may think the K-3III is far too expensive, Pentax are banking in loyal long-term customers ponying up for the smaller format anyway. FWIW I don't think the camera is too expensive, not in the present state of the camera market. It’s price reflects what high-end cameras cost to develop these days in a much-reduced market. However, I think near price parity between FF and APS-C knocks out a lot of the reasons for sticking with a smaller format, mainly except for the extra reach for sports and wildlife for which big lenses are required.

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hikerdoc Veteran Member • Posts: 3,037
Re: PetaPixel K-3 Mark III Review
3

MyReality wrote:

Agree. They need a large increase in marketing and advertising. I think they could generate a lot more revenue if they did something like what Canon did with the Rebel and Andre Agassi, but they may not have the funds for that. When Canon promoted the Rebel on TV, they had a large increase in sales.

Although most people who would have been in the market for cameras of that level are now using smartphones which handily outperform those Rebels. Those in the market looking for $2000 cameras exclusive of any lens will not be as numerous or as easily swayed. Ricoh buys a thirty second slot during Olympics Football/Soccer or Basketball final, there goes the advertising budget for the year, and we sold what 😕!?

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 12,800
Re: PetaPixel K-3 Mark III Review
1

hikerdoc wrote:

MyReality wrote:

Agree. They need a large increase in marketing and advertising. I think they could generate a lot more revenue if they did something like what Canon did with the Rebel and Andre Agassi, but they may not have the funds for that. When Canon promoted the Rebel on TV, they had a large increase in sales.

Although most people who would have been in the market for cameras of that level are now using smartphones which handily outperform those Rebels. Those in the market looking for $2000 cameras exclusive of any lens will not be as numerous or as easily swayed. Ricoh buys a thirty second slot during Olympics Football/Soccer or Basketball final, there goes the advertising budget for the year, and we sold what 😕!?

I agree. The time for the cheap, low quality ILCs supported by marketing and sold in huge volumes in supermarkets has long passed.

Alex

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 12,800
Re: agree
1

petreluk wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

petreluk wrote:

John_A_G wrote:

This is it - This is the differentiator that's going to make or break Pentax. IBIS used to be a differentiator, but it isn't anymore. The OVF and (user experience) is what they're banking on. There are always minor things one system does better than another, but there are usually major differentiators which drive new consumers toward a given system.

We just have to wait a year to find out if the people saying the price is too high are an accurate representation of the market or not. No one on DPR knows that. We'll see if it's true when we see if the camera is discounted

Good point, but isn’t the problem with the OVF that it’s still APS-C and can be bettered simply by moving to FF which these days isn’t likely to be that much more expensive? It depends on what lenses someone has, of course, but I’d guess the third factor here is that Pentax is banking on loyal long-term customers ponying up come what may.

In the case of Pentax isn't it already true that FF and APS-C are the same price - namely the K-1 II and K-3 III? But Pentax got a lot of feedback that FF was not for everybody and they couldn't neglect APS-C so they didn't.

Which pretty well confirms the point that while some may think the K-3III is far too expensive, Pentax are banking in loyal long-term customers ponying up for the smaller format anyway.

In a sense, all brands are banking on their loyal customers to pay; getting new customers is also highly desirable, but you'd never reach the same numbers.

We should differentiate the opinion that the K-3iii is far too expensive, from a promise to buy the K-3iii if it costed X. Over 50 people disagree with that opinion (as the camera currently has 54 "I own it"); people are buying at/close to MSRP. Obviously, at a global level there are many more.

Whatever the price adjustment Ricoh will perform later down the road, I don't see why Ricoh Imaging should've sold the same camera, to the same people willing to pay MSRP, at half the price.

FWIW I don't think the camera is too expensive, not in the present state of the camera market. However, I think near price parity between FF and APS-C knocks out a lot of the reasons for sticking with a smaller format, except for the extra reach for sports and wildlife.

Right. Particularly with a DSLR, there's such a difference - unless you go much pricier with the larger format.

Alex

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MyReality
MyReality Senior Member • Posts: 2,134
Re: PetaPixel K-3 Mark III Review
2

I think it is just beginning.  Sony A6100 and A6300, Canon RP and Nikon Z50 can be found in department stores.

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bob5050 Senior Member • Posts: 2,719
Re: agree
4

Alex Sarbu wrote:

petreluk wrote:

However, I think near price parity between FF and APS-C knocks out a lot of the reasons for sticking with a smaller format, except for the extra reach for sports and wildlife.

Right. Particularly with a DSLR, there's such a difference - unless you go much pricier with the larger format.

From the other (APS-C) side of the aisle---

I never saw the K-1 as too expensive, I simply thought it too large/heavy to want to carry it for 12 hours while traveling, for an extra level of resolution I don't really need. And of course I do see the extra reach of APS-C for the same lens as an advantage.

So "price parity" doesn't really tend to bother me at all--for me it's a question of K-1 shooters and K-3 shooters wanting a slightly different optimization, and Pentax supporting both with the best they can do.

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bob5050
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RBIV Contributing Member • Posts: 613
Re: agree
2

bob5050 wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

petreluk wrote:

However, I think near price parity between FF and APS-C knocks out a lot of the reasons for sticking with a smaller format, except for the extra reach for sports and wildlife.

Right. Particularly with a DSLR, there's such a difference - unless you go much pricier with the larger format.

From the other (APS-C) side of the aisle---

I never saw the K-1 as too expensive, I simply thought it too large/heavy to want to carry it for 12 hours while traveling, for an extra level of resolution I don't really need. And of course I do see the extra reach of APS-C for the same lens as an advantage.

So "price parity" doesn't really tend to bother me at all--for me it's a question of K-1 shooters and K-3 shooters wanting a slightly different optimization, and Pentax supporting both with the best they can do.

Another view from this side of the aisle...

I liked the idea of both small (KP) and flagship (K3iii) choices in APS-C.  Small, portable and un-intimidating is important to me.  And a more capable  body is available should I require more features or get back into "action" photography.

With FF, I hope Pentax can offer somewhat the same.  The Nikon D780 is about the same size as a K3iii so it can be done.  Then continue the K1 series with upgrades as the full featured "flagship."

If I personally wanted to "upgrade" to FF,  Pentax doesn't currently offer a body that I'd want.  The question remains if there's enough consumer demand in the DSLR category for all this.  Maybe.  We'll see....

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 12,800
Re: agree
1

RBIV wrote:

With FF, I hope Pentax can offer somewhat the same. The Nikon D780 is about the same size as a K3iii so it can be done.

The D780 is larger than the K-1.

Alex

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zakaria
zakaria Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: agree
1

Alex Sarbu wrote:

RBIV wrote:

With FF, I hope Pentax can offer somewhat the same. The Nikon D780 is about the same size as a K3iii so it can be done.

The D780 is larger than the K-1.

It is larger but lighter. Both are magnesium alloyed body but k1 seems harder.

Alex

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pentaxian .

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DougOB
DougOB Senior Member • Posts: 2,405
Re: agree
3

zakaria wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

RBIV wrote:

With FF, I hope Pentax can offer somewhat the same. The Nikon D780 is about the same size as a K3iii so it can be done.

The D780 is larger than the K-1.

It is larger but lighter. Both are magnesium alloyed body but k1 seems harder.

And the is K-3iii smaller and lighter than both. GO APSC! 

Doug

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zakaria
zakaria Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: agree

DougOB wrote:

zakaria wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

RBIV wrote:

With FF, I hope Pentax can offer somewhat the same. The Nikon D780 is about the same size as a K3iii so it can be done.

The D780 is larger than the K-1.

It is larger but lighter. Both are magnesium alloyed body but k1 seems harder.

And the is K-3iii smaller and lighter than both. GO APSC!

Doug

I would love it add it to my k series but 2000$ is a big mount of money

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pentaxian .

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PentUp Senior Member • Posts: 2,704
Re: agree

zakaria wrote:

DougOB wrote:

zakaria wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

RBIV wrote:

With FF, I hope Pentax can offer somewhat the same. The Nikon D780 is about the same size as a K3iii so it can be done.

The D780 is larger than the K-1.

I might be interested in a FF Pentax, if there was one that was the same size/weight as a K3 series DSLR ... let's call it the K2 for want of another name but the K-1 series has never held any attraction for me.

It is larger but lighter. Both are magnesium alloyed body but k1 seems harder.

And the is K-3iii smaller and lighter than both. GO APSC!

Doug

I would love it add it to my k series but 2000$ is a big mount of money

It's all relative. To some $100 is a big amount of money. To others $6,000 for a Canon EOS R5 is a " reasonable" amount of money (apparently?)

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Paul_R_H Senior Member • Posts: 1,055
Re: agree
1

I'm happy with APS-C not FF. It's not about size or weight or cost actually.

People buy FF because of the ability to get thin DoF. And finer grain at high ISO.

Well, most times we or the camera don't focus accurately enough. Or if we do get it right, either the camera or the subject moves before the shutter opens. If you blow most shots up big enough to see the difference in grain between FF and APS-C, you'll spot the focussing errors.

I practice a lot but my technique, and most cameras' focussing accuracy, aren't yet good enough. If I get much better, maybe I can justify FF. But not yet.

Paul

PentUp wrote:

zakaria wrote:

DougOB wrote:

zakaria wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

RBIV wrote:

With FF, I hope Pentax can offer somewhat the same. The Nikon D780 is about the same size as a K3iii so it can be done.

The D780 is larger than the K-1.

I might be interested in a FF Pentax, if there was one that was the same size/weight as a K3 series DSLR ... let's call it the K2 for want of another name but the K-1 series has never held any attraction for me.

It is larger but lighter. Both are magnesium alloyed body but k1 seems harder.

And the is K-3iii smaller and lighter than both. GO APSC!

Doug

I would love it add it to my k series but 2000$ is a big mount of money

It's all relative. To some $100 is a big amount of money. To others $6,000 for a Canon EOS R5 is a " reasonable" amount of money (apparently?)

Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 12,800
Re: agree

PentUp wrote:

zakaria wrote:

DougOB wrote:

zakaria wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

RBIV wrote:

With FF, I hope Pentax can offer somewhat the same. The Nikon D780 is about the same size as a K3iii so it can be done.

The D780 is larger than the K-1.

I might be interested in a FF Pentax, if there was one that was the same size/weight as a K3 series DSLR

The K-1 isn't that big. Now, add a D FA* prime or two...

Alex

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John_A_G Veteran Member • Posts: 8,137
Re: agree

Alex Sarbu wrote:

PentUp wrote:

zakaria wrote:

DougOB wrote:

zakaria wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

RBIV wrote:

With FF, I hope Pentax can offer somewhat the same. The Nikon D780 is about the same size as a K3iii so it can be done.

The D780 is larger than the K-1.

I might be interested in a FF Pentax, if there was one that was the same size/weight as a K3 series DSLR

The K-1 isn't that big. Now, add a D FA* prime or two...

Alex

Yes, I really don't get the push-back on a camera the size of the K-1 for a full frame when the lens size dominates anyway.  Now, back in the day when I shot with a Canon 1dIII - THAT was a beast of a camera (and it was aps-h not full frame).  I actually downsized to the full-frame 5dIII to get a smaller camera.  But with high quality optics, the lenses are large enough that going a lot smaller for a DSLR doesn't really buy me much.

I can understand an aps-c camera with aps-c lenses.

bob5050 Senior Member • Posts: 2,719
Re: agree
2

John_A_G wrote:

Yes, I really don't get the push-back on a camera the size of the K-1 for a full frame when the lens size dominates anyway.

Granted, but that doesn't change anything: all things being equal, larger sensors need a corresponding increase in glass to supply them.

I say 'all things being equal' because, obviously, you can make size a significant design goal--witness the Limiteds.

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bob5050
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