"Crop-ability" of images?

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
john isaacs Veteran Member • Posts: 6,107
Re: Why?
1

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

So shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for "lightness"?

No, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for exposure.

Why are you trying to re-define the classic definition of exposure?

There is no "classic definition" of exposure.  There is only the definition that's been in use for decades, and that is through the exposure triangle.

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Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 28,755
Re: Why?
7

john isaacs wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

So shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for "lightness"?

No, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for exposure.

Why are you trying to re-define the classic definition of exposure?

There is no "classic definition" of exposure.

LOL. There is. See for example the Kodak's one:

"Exposure: Amount of light that acts on a photographic material; product of illumination intensity (controlled by the lens opening) and duration (controlled by the shutter opening and the frame rate)."

BTW, settings for exposure and exposure are different things.

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(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 19,317
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Yes, I think that the 'triangle' is responsible for people thinking wrongly that the components of exposure are aperture, shutter and ISO.

well think of it like this , to expose a viewable image on the camera rear lcd or evf . the camera requires the correct aperture ,shutter speed and iso now try to argue against that

You got me there. The next time I want to print an image I must remember to take a picture of the LCD with my phone and print from that

a printer or computer is not a camera.

Some computers are cameras.

some computer "have" cameras still need 3 settings to expose an image

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john isaacs Veteran Member • Posts: 6,107
Re: Why?

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

So shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for "lightness"?

No, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for exposure.

Why are you trying to re-define the classic definition of exposure?

There is no "classic definition" of exposure.

LOL. There is.

BTW, settings for exposure and exposure are different things.

You need a link.

And exposure settings are what I'm talking about, because that's what gets you an image.  The other stuff is irrelevant.

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Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 28,755
Re: Why?
3

john isaacs wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

So shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for "lightness"?

No, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for exposure.

Why are you trying to re-define the classic definition of exposure?

There is no "classic definition" of exposure.

LOL. There is.

BTW, settings for exposure and exposure are different things.

You need a link.

If _you_ need a link, try Google. I'm quoting from a book.

And exposure settings are what I'm talking about, because that's what gets you an image.

No, exposure settings don't get you an image. Exposure and processing do.

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(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 19,317
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Yes, I think that the 'triangle' is responsible for people thinking wrongly that the components of exposure are aperture, shutter and ISO.

well think of it like this , to expose a viewable image on the camera rear lcd or evf . the camera requires the correct aperture ,shutter speed and iso now try to argue against that

You got me there. The next time I want to print an image I must remember to take a picture of the LCD with my phone and print from that

a printer or computer is not a camera.

Some computers are cameras.

answer me this, what does the exposure comp dial change on a film camera ?

Don

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(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 19,317
Re: Why?

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

So shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for "lightness"?

No, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for exposure.

Why are you trying to re-define the classic definition of exposure?

There is no "classic definition" of exposure.

LOL. There is.

BTW, settings for exposure and exposure are different things.

You need a link.

If _you_ need a link, try Google. I'm quoting from a book.

And exposure settings are what I'm talking about, because that's what gets you an image.

No, exposure settings don't get you an image. Exposure and processing do.

answer this https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65344834

Don

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Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 28,755
Re: Why?
2

Donald B wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

So shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for "lightness"?

No, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for exposure.

Why are you trying to re-define the classic definition of exposure?

There is no "classic definition" of exposure.

LOL. There is.

BTW, settings for exposure and exposure are different things.

You need a link.

If _you_ need a link, try Google. I'm quoting from a book.

And exposure settings are what I'm talking about, because that's what gets you an image.

No, exposure settings don't get you an image. Exposure and processing do.

answer this https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65344834

Please ask nicely.

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 69,811
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?
7

john isaacs wrote:

john isaacs wrote:

So shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for "lightness"?

No, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the settings for exposure.

They are the controls on your camera or meter which are used for exposure setting, but only the shutter speed and f-number directly set exposure. This is how it works. When you set an ISO, it sets a target exposure, which is defined in the ISO standard. It also controls the in0camera processing to render an image from that exposure at the lightness mandated by the ISO standard for that target exposure. The exposure meter is set up so that it will be at the centre (zero) when the exposure is equal to the target exposure. If you make the exposure too large the processing will produce an image that is too light. If you set the exposure too small, the resulting image will be too dark.

Here is the relevant section from the ISO standard (this is an old version, I do not have the up-to date one with me at the moment)

If you look at the Wikipedia article I linked you'll see that 'value' is a different term for lightness.

Here Isos is the ISO value according to the SOS definition, which is the one camera manufacturers usually use. You'll see that it is defined as 10 divided by an exposure. If that exposure already includes ISO, then the definition refers to itself and cannot be resolved. Further, it tells us elsewhere in the standard that exposure is measured in lux seconds, which is the unit for luminous energy density. which is what I said exposure is earlier.

Sorry if this is too technical and scientific, but this is necessary to establish what is the actual fact of the matter if someone continues, without evidence, to say something different.

And this is not a new thing, it is what 'exposure' has meant from the inception of photography. It is relatively recently, with the explosion of misinformation on the Web, that people started being misinformed, so badly that very possibly the majority of photographers don't know what 'exposure' is. And given that exposure is one of the core concepts in photography, that's quite serious.

I want an image; I set my exposure parameters; I get my image.

The internal workings of the camera are essentially irrelevant. It's a black box (and that might explain why most cameras are black these days!).

It's the same with film, but you get to choose your ISO for each picture without having to change out the film.

Re-defining the term is of no value; especially when it isn't replaced with a comparably useful term.

It's you that's doing the redefining, not me. You've simply got it wrong, even if you can't bring yourself to admit it.

As for how 'useful' the terms are, lightness means just what you mean when you say 'exposure', and does so without removing the established meaning of exposure. If you want to understand exposure, and how to control exposure, you need to understand the difference between exposure and lightness, so you need two different words. You also need to know what ISO actually is.

P.S.

If you're not convinced by ISO, this is from Kodak's 'Sensitometry Workbook' (sensitometry is the science of photosensitive materials, the basis of photography)

The unit for light (Illuminance) is called millilux. It is equal to one-thousandth of one lux (formally called a metre-candle). Exposure can be determined by multiplying Illuminance (in millilux) by Time (in seconds).

The equation is: Exposure = Illuminance x Time

This equation, Exposure = Illuminance x Time was commonly found in photographic texts before the Web people got at it, and the science behind photography ceased to matter.

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 69,811
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?
3

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Yes, I think that the 'triangle' is responsible for people thinking wrongly that the components of exposure are aperture, shutter and ISO.

well think of it like this , to expose a viewable image on the camera rear lcd or evf . the camera requires the correct aperture ,shutter speed and iso now try to argue against that

You got me there. The next time I want to print an image I must remember to take a picture of the LCD with my phone and print from that

a printer or computer is not a camera.

Some computers are cameras.

answer me this, what does the exposure comp dial change on a film camera ?

The zero point for the exposure meter, just the same as it does for a digital camera.

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Is it always wrong
for one to have the hots for
Comrade Kim Yo Jong?

(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 19,317
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Yes, I think that the 'triangle' is responsible for people thinking wrongly that the components of exposure are aperture, shutter and ISO.

well think of it like this , to expose a viewable image on the camera rear lcd or evf . the camera requires the correct aperture ,shutter speed and iso now try to argue against that

You got me there. The next time I want to print an image I must remember to take a picture of the LCD with my phone and print from that

a printer or computer is not a camera.

Some computers are cameras.

answer me this, what does the exposure comp dial change on a film camera ?

The zero point for the exposure meter, just the same as it does for a digital camera.

it changes the film speed settting.

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Xasan Senior Member • Posts: 1,088
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?
4

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Don

Do you also believe that a solar eclipse occurs when a crocodile eats the sun?

Xasan Senior Member • Posts: 1,088
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Yes, I think that the 'triangle' is responsible for people thinking wrongly that the components of exposure are aperture, shutter and ISO.

well think of it like this , to expose a viewable image on the camera rear lcd or evf . the camera requires the correct aperture ,shutter speed and iso now try to argue against that

You got me there. The next time I want to print an image I must remember to take a picture of the LCD with my phone and print from that

a printer or computer is not a camera.

Some computers are cameras.

answer me this, what does the exposure comp dial change on a film camera ?

The zero point for the exposure meter, just the same as it does for a digital camera.

it changes the film speed settting.

Same thing.

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 69,811
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?
1

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Yes, I think that the 'triangle' is responsible for people thinking wrongly that the components of exposure are aperture, shutter and ISO.

well think of it like this , to expose a viewable image on the camera rear lcd or evf . the camera requires the correct aperture ,shutter speed and iso now try to argue against that

You got me there. The next time I want to print an image I must remember to take a picture of the LCD with my phone and print from that

a printer or computer is not a camera.

Some computers are cameras.

answer me this, what does the exposure comp dial change on a film camera ?

The zero point for the exposure meter, just the same as it does for a digital camera.

it changes the film speed settting.

What does the film speed setting set?

(BTW, it doesn't always work directly on the film speed dial)

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for one to have the hots for
Comrade Kim Yo Jong?

(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 19,317
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Yes, I think that the 'triangle' is responsible for people thinking wrongly that the components of exposure are aperture, shutter and ISO.

well think of it like this , to expose a viewable image on the camera rear lcd or evf . the camera requires the correct aperture ,shutter speed and iso now try to argue against that

You got me there. The next time I want to print an image I must remember to take a picture of the LCD with my phone and print from that

a printer or computer is not a camera.

Some computers are cameras.

answer me this, what does the exposure comp dial change on a film camera ?

The zero point for the exposure meter, just the same as it does for a digital camera.

it changes the film speed settting.

What does the film speed setting set?

Exposure checkmate

(BTW, it doesn't always work directly on the film speed dial)

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(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 19,317
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?

Xasan wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Don

Do you also believe that a solar eclipse occurs when a crocodile eats the sun?

exposure comp dial pentax ME directly connected to the film speed

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 69,811
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?
6

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Yes, I think that the 'triangle' is responsible for people thinking wrongly that the components of exposure are aperture, shutter and ISO.

well think of it like this , to expose a viewable image on the camera rear lcd or evf . the camera requires the correct aperture ,shutter speed and iso now try to argue against that

You got me there. The next time I want to print an image I must remember to take a picture of the LCD with my phone and print from that

a printer or computer is not a camera.

Some computers are cameras.

answer me this, what does the exposure comp dial change on a film camera ?

The zero point for the exposure meter, just the same as it does for a digital camera.

it changes the film speed settting.

What does the film speed setting set?

Exposure

Wrong. It sets the meter zero point. You probably never learned this, but the controls on your camera that can be used to set exposure are the aperture and shutter.

checkmate

I'm not at all surprised that you play pigeon chess so well.

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Comrade Kim Yo Jong?

(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 19,317
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?

pentax ME directly connected to the film speed dial

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Xasan Senior Member • Posts: 1,088
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?
3

Donald B wrote:

Xasan wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Don

Do you also believe that a solar eclipse occurs when a crocodile eats the sun?

exposure comp dial pentax ME directly connected to the film speed

What is it that you don't understand?  ISO dial shifts the zero.

Xasan Senior Member • Posts: 1,088
Re: "Crop-ability" of images?
3

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Donald B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Muster Mark wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dperez wrote:

More photographers who’s judgement I respect are talking about moving to Olympus. A question came up the other day and I’m trying to figure out the answer.

Nikon D850, 600mm f/4 versus M1X, 300mm f/4.

As I understand it - the lenses are the same equivalent - 600mm. The Nikon shoots at f/8 and ISO 3200 and 1/500. The M1X shoots at f/4 so the DOF is the same, and ISO 800 and 1/500, so the exposure is the same, right?

Wrong! Somewhere along the way you've picked up a wrong idea of what 'exposure' means. It does not mean how light or dark the image is. It means what is the light energy density at the sensor. It is determined by shutter speed, f-number and scene luminance. In your example, since the shutter speed and scene luminance are the same, but the f-number is two stops higher on the Nikon, it will have two stops less exposure. But it will make up for it by having four times the sensor area.

I think he was saying he puts the Nikon at f8 and gets the same results as the Oly at F4. This is correct. He has the Nikon shooting at ISO 3200 and the oly at ISO 800. I don't think your criticism of his understanding is warranted.

I didn't criticise his understanding except for the meaning of 'exposure', which he got wrong. This misunderstanding is unfortunately common. As you say, if he was saying that he gets the same 'results' or lightness, then yes, he's right.

I like this quote "The “Exposure Triangle,” as it is often referred to, is a handy way of interpreting the major components involved in the process of capturing an image.

Yes, I think that the 'triangle' is responsible for people thinking wrongly that the components of exposure are aperture, shutter and ISO.

well think of it like this , to expose a viewable image on the camera rear lcd or evf . the camera requires the correct aperture ,shutter speed and iso now try to argue against that

You got me there. The next time I want to print an image I must remember to take a picture of the LCD with my phone and print from that

a printer or computer is not a camera.

Some computers are cameras.

answer me this, what does the exposure comp dial change on a film camera ?

The zero point for the exposure meter, just the same as it does for a digital camera.

it changes the film speed settting.

What does the film speed setting set?

Exposure

Camera in manual mode, you set aperture and shutter speed. Does changing ISO or EC changes exposure?

checkmate

oh for Pete's sake

(BTW, it doesn't always work directly on the film speed dial)

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