Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
win10-64 Contributing Member • Posts: 503
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500
3

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

You must be seeing something different to me, but I am pixel peeping on a 40 inch screen so maybe that's the reason, or maybe the 100-400mm shots are cropped too much compared to your 200-600mm shot.

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Looking closely, your Swallow image here using the 200-600mm looks sharper and more detailed to me than the images with the 100-400mm.

Great shot - and the most important thing is how it looks to you.

Mine are quite soft because of the even light but pixel for pixel you're not even close

If you want sharper detail in better light here it is.

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

The A1 with 200-600mm looks sharper for Swallows than the 100-400mm, probably due to the 100-400 not having enough reach.

Would love to see images from any combo that are sharper and show more detail than these.

Nictitating membrane half covering eye is not out of focus blur.

-- hide signature --

For every house is builded by some man; but He that built all things is God. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

win10-64 Contributing Member • Posts: 503
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

These look as sharp as your 200-600mm Swallow pic. Maybe it's the way they are showing when I am viewing them, with the 100-400mm pics being cropped and enlarged more.

duncang wrote:

A couple more. I might be stating the obvious but be sure to click on "original size"

-- hide signature --

For every house is builded by some man; but He that built all things is God. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

win10-64 Contributing Member • Posts: 503
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500
2

In a thread named "Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500" we really need R5+500mm pics to see how good they are. 

-- hide signature --

For every house is builded by some man; but He that built all things is God. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

duncang Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

win10-64 wrote:

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

Sure it is sharp - it was shot in brighter sunlight lower iso so will look cleaner at 100%. But by comparison it lacks detail.

Just look at the purple fringing around the edges - not really evident in the 100-400 image.

If you pixel peep at 100% then the image with less noise will look sharper - but that is not really any and indication of how sharp the lens is.

These two are both 100% crops of the heads. As you can see the one is roughly double the size in pixels so captures far more details.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

You must be seeing something different to me, but I am pixel peeping on a 40 inch screen so maybe that's the reason, or maybe the 100-400mm shots are cropped too much compared to your 200-600mm shot.

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Looking closely, your Swallow image here using the 200-600mm looks sharper and more detailed to me than the images with the 100-400mm.

Great shot - and the most important thing is how it looks to you.

Mine are quite soft because of the even light but pixel for pixel you're not even close

If you want sharper detail in better light here it is.

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

The A1 with 200-600mm looks sharper for Swallows than the 100-400mm, probably due to the 100-400 not having enough reach.

Would love to see images from any combo that are sharper and show more detail than these.

Nictitating membrane half covering eye is not out of focus blur.

duncang Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

win10-64 wrote:

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

Here is a better series for you - if you can hold your 200-600 for long enough to catch this then they should come out pretty much just as sharp - I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I should have some decent full frame ones with the a9 and 200-600 and 100-500 - but it might take a while to find them.

For this the big advantage of the 100-400 is size and weight - sharpness not so much.

Most of these are at 1/8000 f8 so you can do that easily with the 200-600.

I don't know if it is possible to get much better than this. For sure the a9/R5 fall over at 20fps here since they won't capture all the action.

duncang Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500
1

And then another sequence - careful you don't crack your screen with these ones.

win10-64 Contributing Member • Posts: 503
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

Will try not to crack my screen, lol. The point would be that the 200-600mm is better than the 100-400mm when the extra reach is needed.

Some of your 100-400mm photos are good maybe when you got very close to the Swallows, but others blurry maybe because you did not and the 100-400mm lacked reach.

If you can get close to the subect even less than a 100-400mm lens would do with the cropping abilities of the A1.

I would like to see those R5+100-500mm photos you mentioned. Do you still have that combo now? I was wondering why you were not taking the Swallows using it.

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

Here is a better series for you - if you can hold your 200-600 for long enough to catch this then they should come out pretty much just as sharp - I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I should have some decent full frame ones with the a9 and 200-600 and 100-500 - but it might take a while to find them.

For this the big advantage of the 100-400 is size and weight - sharpness not so much.

Most of these are at 1/8000 f8 so you can do that easily with the 200-600.

I don't know if it is possible to get much better than this. For sure the a9/R5 fall over at 20fps here since they won't capture all the action.

-- hide signature --

For every house is builded by some man; but He that built all things is God. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

duncang Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

win10-64 wrote:

Will try not to crack my screen, lol. The point would be that the 200-600mm is better than the 100-400mm when the extra reach is needed.

Nothing wrong with the a9 + 200-600+ TC1.4 @ 840mm - just a lot of hard work tracking with that monster.  Even better with the a1 of course.

Some of your 100-400mm photos are good maybe when you got very close to the Swallows, but others blurry maybe because you did not and the 100-400mm lacked reach.

If you can get close to the subect even less than a 100-400mm lens would do with the cropping abilities of the A1.

I would like to see those R5+100-500mm photos you mentioned. Do you still have that combo now? I was wondering why you were not taking the Swallows using it.

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

Here is a better series for you - if you can hold your 200-600 for long enough to catch this then they should come out pretty much just as sharp - I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I should have some decent full frame ones with the a9 and 200-600 and 100-500 - but it might take a while to find them.

For this the big advantage of the 100-400 is size and weight - sharpness not so much.

Most of these are at 1/8000 f8 so you can do that easily with the 200-600.

I don't know if it is possible to get much better than this. For sure the a9/R5 fall over at 20fps here since they won't capture all the action.

Djehuty Contributing Member • Posts: 514
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Will try not to crack my screen, lol. The point would be that the 200-600mm is better than the 100-400mm when the extra reach is needed.

Nothing wrong with the a9 + 200-600+ TC1.4 @ 840mm - just a lot of hard work tracking with that monster. Even better with the a1 of course.

Some of your 100-400mm photos are good maybe when you got very close to the Swallows, but others blurry maybe because you did not and the 100-400mm lacked reach.

If you can get close to the subect even less than a 100-400mm lens would do with the cropping abilities of the A1.

I would like to see those R5+100-500mm photos you mentioned. Do you still have that combo now? I was wondering why you were not taking the Swallows using it.

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

Here is a better series for you - if you can hold your 200-600 for long enough to catch this then they should come out pretty much just as sharp - I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I should have some decent full frame ones with the a9 and 200-600 and 100-500 - but it might take a while to find them.

For this the big advantage of the 100-400 is size and weight - sharpness not so much.

Most of these are at 1/8000 f8 so you can do that easily with the 200-600.

I don't know if it is possible to get much better than this. For sure the a9/R5 fall over at 20fps here since they won't capture all the action.

A good gimbal head helps tho.

LarryRC Senior Member • Posts: 1,068
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

Here is a better series for you - if you can hold your 200-600 for long enough to catch this then they should come out pretty much just as sharp - I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I should have some decent full frame ones with the a9 and 200-600 and 100-500 - but it might take a while to find them.

For this the big advantage of the 100-400 is size and weight - sharpness not so much.

Most of these are at 1/8000 f8 so you can do that easily with the 200-600.

I don't know if it is possible to get much better than this. For sure the a9/R5 fall over at 20fps here since they won't capture all the action.

Amazing sequence. Shooting at 1/8000 was a good choice.  The A1 was focused on the eye until the bird turned its head and then when turned back the focus seems to be elsewhere.

 LarryRC's gear list:LarryRC's gear list
Sony a7R IV Sony FE 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 Sony FE 12-24mm F4 Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 III Sony FE 600mm F4
duncang Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

LarryRC wrote:

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

Here is a better series for you - if you can hold your 200-600 for long enough to catch this then they should come out pretty much just as sharp - I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I should have some decent full frame ones with the a9 and 200-600 and 100-500 - but it might take a while to find them.

For this the big advantage of the 100-400 is size and weight - sharpness not so much.

Most of these are at 1/8000 f8 so you can do that easily with the 200-600.

I don't know if it is possible to get much better than this. For sure the a9/R5 fall over at 20fps here since they won't capture all the action.

Amazing sequence. Shooting at 1/8000 was a good choice. The A1 was focused on the eye until the bird turned its head and then when turned back the focus seems to be elsewhere.

Yep - looses it a little in 0.06 of a second !!

And-roid
And-roid Senior Member • Posts: 1,638
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

duncang wrote:

LarryRC wrote:

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

Here is a better series for you - if you can hold your 200-600 for long enough to catch this then they should come out pretty much just as sharp - I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I should have some decent full frame ones with the a9 and 200-600 and 100-500 - but it might take a while to find them.

For this the big advantage of the 100-400 is size and weight - sharpness not so much.

Most of these are at 1/8000 f8 so you can do that easily with the 200-600.

I don't know if it is possible to get much better than this. For sure the a9/R5 fall over at 20fps here since they won't capture all the action.

Amazing sequence. Shooting at 1/8000 was a good choice. The A1 was focused on the eye until the bird turned its head and then when turned back the focus seems to be elsewhere.

Yep - looses it a little in 0.06 of a second !!

Are you still getting a 200-600? I've returned mine and replaced with the FE 100-400, again! 200-600, too big!!!!!!!!!

 And-roid's gear list:And-roid's gear list
Canon EOS R5 Nikon Z7 II Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 +5 more
Djehuty Contributing Member • Posts: 514
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

And-roid wrote:

duncang wrote:

LarryRC wrote:

duncang wrote:

win10-64 wrote:

Both shots of Swallows are yours not mine. The first one shot using your A1+200-600mm looks sharper around the eye, head, body and more detailed than your 100-400mm shots.

The 100-400mm shots are blurrier around the eye and elsewhere compared to your 200-600mm shot.

Here is a better series for you - if you can hold your 200-600 for long enough to catch this then they should come out pretty much just as sharp - I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I should have some decent full frame ones with the a9 and 200-600 and 100-500 - but it might take a while to find them.

For this the big advantage of the 100-400 is size and weight - sharpness not so much.

Most of these are at 1/8000 f8 so you can do that easily with the 200-600.

I don't know if it is possible to get much better than this. For sure the a9/R5 fall over at 20fps here since they won't capture all the action.

Amazing sequence. Shooting at 1/8000 was a good choice. The A1 was focused on the eye until the bird turned its head and then when turned back the focus seems to be elsewhere.

Yep - looses it a little in 0.06 of a second !!

Are you still getting a 200-600? I've returned mine and replaced with the FE 100-400, again! 200-600, too big!!!!!!!!!

Pretty small for a 600mm reach.

win10-64 Contributing Member • Posts: 503
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

Not really a good example, but just a test pic of a Sandmartin flying about in the air around the house without the TC attached.

Seems easier without the TC, which I think slows down the AF a bit and a bit harder to acquire and keep in the EVF.

Not sure if the 100-400mm would have had enough reach in this case, but good if you can get closer like them flying around a riverbank instead of the sky.

-- hide signature --

For every house is builded by some man; but He that built all things is God. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Erik Kaffehr
Erik Kaffehr Veteran Member • Posts: 6,289
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

thomeven wrote:

This is most likely asked before, but I have to decide within a few days which combo to go for.. The money is about equal, since the A1 is more expensive than Canon R5. Today I have the A9ii with the 200-600mm. I am going more into bird photography and both combinations is excellent for BIF, but they are also somewhat different.. I have been a long time Sony shooter, but also owned Canon gear some years ago.

Does anyone have some facts to consider helping med to decide.. I would probably be happy with both combos, and AF, eye AF and IQ is probably the most important for me. Something tells me to stay Sony, but I am not sure..

Hi,

I own the Sony 200-600 and use it on the A7rIV. Don't own the Canon.
But, I would think that Canon used to make excellent lenses.

Switching systems is always a huge expense.

Canon has some affordable long telephoto lenses that are said to work well.

Here are some samples from the A7rIV/200-600 combo.

Best regards

Erik

-- hide signature --

Erik Kaffehr
Website: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net
Magic uses to disappear in controlled experiments…
Gallery: http://echophoto.smugmug.com
Articles: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles

And-roid
And-roid Senior Member • Posts: 1,638
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

duncang wrote:

And then another sequence - careful you don't crack your screen with these ones.

Hi Duncang, what are your typical settings for these, ie tracking sensitivity etc eg more responsive or more tracking etc?

Thanks

 And-roid's gear list:And-roid's gear list
Canon EOS R5 Nikon Z7 II Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 +5 more
duncang Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

And-roid wrote:

Are you still getting a 200-600? I've returned mine and replaced with the FE 100-400, again! 200-600, too big!!!!!!!!!

I've had the 200-600 for some time. Unless I need the reach I will use the 100-400 - much nicer to use for extended periods.  Most of the swallows are shot at f8 so even with the TC1.4 on it is fine for BIF if you need a bit more reach. It's been a complete game changer for small fast bif for me.

There are still times when it is useful @840mm so I won't be getting rid of it - I want to try out the TC2.0  to see if that is better than cropping. These are not really what I would call satisfactory.  I seem to be able to get pretty decent images even at iso12800 as long as the subject has enough pixels on it.  DxO PhotoLab does an outstanding job.

duncang Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

And-roid wrote:

Hi Duncang, what are your typical settings for these, ie tracking sensitivity etc eg more responsive or more tracking etc?

Thanks

I use both AF Area Wide and Tracking Expanding Flexible Spot (a9) and Tracking large spot (or whatever on the A1).

All other settings are just the default settings - I have never seen any need to change them since the cameras have no problem tracking the birds - the problem is me being unable to keep them in the frame for more than a could of seconds.

However I am shooting in a very particular setup chosen specifically to avoid any of the usual tracking problems, such as busy backgrounds or water surface.

(as an aside I am busy putting together a video to explain how I do it and to show more of the images and a typical capture sequence and will post a link once it is done on the forums.)

So with the exception of the bug pickups the background is 30 or 40 meters away, or if it is water it is 6 or more meters away from the bird.

As a result the background is nicely blurred and contains just enough detail to know something is there.

As a consequence once the cameras have acquired the subject there is little chance they will lose the subject if it remains in the frame.  And so the skill is almost entirely about acquiring initial focus and then keeping the subject in the frame.  Neither the a9 nor the a1 appears to have any trouble tracking after than. Not every image is in focus and quite often  birds that get very close have the focus plane behind the eyes - I assume that fast that close results in some difficult keeping up.  But out of 16,000 images I must have just over 400 tack sharp images - and quite a number are shot in overcast conditions with quite poor light.  I quite like the images from those days as they have no visible shadows and a nice soft look about them.  The are not ultra sharp because there is quite a lot of noise which obviously reduces the sharp detail.

So while the a1 and a9 af systems are excellent they are not going to work well for swallows or other small birds when there is a busy background close by.  So pick your spot carefully.

Hope this helps - if not perhaps the video will offer some useful ideas.

Swallow have always been the BIF benchmark for me - them and small parrots are super difficult to get outstanding details BIF images.  Not sure I could have done it without this new mirrorless gear.

And-roid
And-roid Senior Member • Posts: 1,638
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

duncang wrote:

And-roid wrote:

Hi Duncang, what are your typical settings for these, ie tracking sensitivity etc eg more responsive or more tracking etc?

Thanks

I use both AF Area Wide and Tracking Expanding Flexible Spot (a9) and Tracking large spot (or whatever on the A1).

All other settings are just the default settings - I have never seen any need to change them since the cameras have no problem tracking the birds - the problem is me being unable to keep them in the frame for more than a could of seconds.

However I am shooting in a very particular setup chosen specifically to avoid any of the usual tracking problems, such as busy backgrounds or water surface.

(as an aside I am busy putting together a video to explain how I do it and to show more of the images and a typical capture sequence and will post a link once it is done on the forums.)

So with the exception of the bug pickups the background is 30 or 40 meters away, or if it is water it is 6 or more meters away from the bird.

As a result the background is nicely blurred and contains just enough detail to know something is there.

As a consequence once the cameras have acquired the subject there is little chance they will lose the subject if it remains in the frame. And so the skill is almost entirely about acquiring initial focus and then keeping the subject in the frame. Neither the a9 nor the a1 appears to have any trouble tracking after than. Not every image is in focus and quite often birds that get very close have the focus plane behind the eyes - I assume that fast that close results in some difficult keeping up. But out of 16,000 images I must have just over 400 tack sharp images - and quite a number are shot in overcast conditions with quite poor light. I quite like the images from those days as they have no visible shadows and a nice soft look about them. The are not ultra sharp because there is quite a lot of noise which obviously reduces the sharp detail.

So while the a1 and a9 af systems are excellent they are not going to work well for swallows or other small birds when there is a busy background close by. So pick your spot carefully.

Hope this helps - if not perhaps the video will offer some useful ideas.

Swallow have always been the BIF benchmark for me - them and small parrots are super difficult to get outstanding details BIF images. Not sure I could have done it without this new mirrorless gear.

Many thanks, looking forward to the video 👍

 And-roid's gear list:And-roid's gear list
Canon EOS R5 Nikon Z7 II Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 +5 more
And-roid
And-roid Senior Member • Posts: 1,638
Re: Sony Alpha 1, SEL 200-600 or Canon R5, RF 100-500

duncang wrote:

And-roid wrote:

Are you still getting a 200-600? I've returned mine and replaced with the FE 100-400, again! 200-600, too big!!!!!!!!!

I've had the 200-600 for some time. Unless I need the reach I will use the 100-400 - much nicer to use for extended periods. Most of the swallows are shot at f8 so even with the TC1.4 on it is fine for BIF if you need a bit more reach. It's been a complete game changer for small fast bif for me.

There are still times when it is useful @840mm so I won't be getting rid of it - I want to try out the TC2.0 to see if that is better than cropping. These are not really what I would call satisfactory. I seem to be able to get pretty decent images even at iso12800 as long as the subject has enough pixels on it. DxO PhotoLab does an outstanding job.

Great info 👍

 And-roid's gear list:And-roid's gear list
Canon EOS R5 Nikon Z7 II Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 +5 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads