Full Frame vs Micro 4:3

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
gardenersassistant Veteran Member • Posts: 9,019
Re: To summarize my experience...
1

aKansasKid wrote:

gardenersassistant wrote:

The extreme diffraction softening is also why I have to use rather strong post processing to get images that I consider usable for my purposes. For example, here are comparisons for two images. On the right we see how the image looks "out of the camera" (I shoot raw - these are resized from the embedded JPEGs in the raw files. We are looking at 100% at a 1300 pixel high image).

On the left is how that same part of the image looks after post processing. (The subjects are around 2mm long btw, and getting decent depth of field for small subjects is particularly difficult with single shots - and focus stacking is often impossible because the subject, like the bottom one of these, is moving around when the image is captured.)

Not trying to derail the thread here, but I'd love to know what you did in post to increase sharpness by so much. Gotta be more than just sharpness sliders in Lightroom/darktable. Wow!

This post explains the process in some detail as it was five months ago. It keeps changing; for example in Lightroom I'm now not using Autotone or the preset, and I'm now using two runs of Topaz DeNoise AI using different methods. Perhaps there are some other detailed changes that I've forgotten about. Still, it should give you a pretty good idea of what is involved.

Mark_A
Mark_A Forum Pro • Posts: 16,444
So make your choice and do some photography ..
1

Michael Piziak wrote:

I viewed this 2018 video, to get a perspective of how much smaller the Olympus cameras are than other cameras... The video actually compares the micro 4:3 to a full frame camera when it comes to image quality. I have neither, as I've only owned APS-C DSLR's.

While I am impressed by the size of the micro 4:3, I actually came away with a conclusion that, just perhaps, all the talk about image quality advantage of a FF camera, perhaps, just perhaps, may be a bit of "hype."

Hi Michael

So you read this review, so make your choice buy some gear and do some photography ..

Surely you don't need an audience to help you make up your mind?

Mark_A

Dem Bell Contributing Member • Posts: 730
Re: Full Frame vs Micro 4:3
2

The APS-C format is the answer to the M43 vs FF debate.

Peace ✌

J A C S
J A C S Forum Pro • Posts: 19,534
Re: Full Frame vs Micro 4:3

Dem Bell wrote:

The APS-C format is the answer to the M43 vs FF debate.

Neither here nor there?

Fotoni Senior Member • Posts: 1,067
Full frame is the way

They are getting cheaper, smaller, lighter. Lenses can be whatever you want. Small and cheap, big and expensive.

It is like those small HDDs which are a bit cheaper than bigger ones, but some people just stare the price and be happy to save a few bucks 500GB vs 1TB.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 51,745
Videos are useless for IQ comparisons.
8

It's not hype at all. The IQ of FF is demonstrably better but you will never see it in a video because of the low resolution and compression that goes into making the video and posting it on YouTube. It is necessary to compare the actual files, not a reproduction which is all a video is.

Another thing to consider is each individuals needs. On the extremes some find smartphone IQ good enough while on the other Medium Frame is all they will accept. In between there is a range of people with different wants and needs.

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Tom

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(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 217
lol, you just just don't get it.
1

I said these are different tools and each has their own strengths.  I never said M43 is always going to be better.  But you shure think FF is alwyas going to be smaller and better.

And I predicted you got upset when I pointed out one way M43 is smaller or better. I don't think you'll ever be open minded.

chorleyjeff Forum Member • Posts: 87
Re: Full frame is the way

Fotoni wrote:

They are getting cheaper, smaller, lighter. Lenses can be whatever you want. Small and cheap, big and expensive.

It is like those small HDDs which are a bit cheaper than bigger ones, but some people just stare the price and be happy to save a few bucks 500GB vs 1TB.

No comparison.

Both sizes of HDD record filke information exactly the same unlike different sizes and pixel density of sensors.

And the laws of physics do not change regarding lens size and weight - unless plastic lens elements are OK.

aKansasKid Forum Member • Posts: 66
Re: To summarize my experience...

gardenersassistant wrote:

aKansasKid wrote:

gardenersassistant wrote:

The extreme diffraction softening is also why I have to use rather strong post processing to get images that I consider usable for my purposes. For example, here are comparisons for two images. On the right we see how the image looks "out of the camera" (I shoot raw - these are resized from the embedded JPEGs in the raw files. We are looking at 100% at a 1300 pixel high image).

On the left is how that same part of the image looks after post processing. (The subjects are around 2mm long btw, and getting decent depth of field for small subjects is particularly difficult with single shots - and focus stacking is often impossible because the subject, like the bottom one of these, is moving around when the image is captured.)

Not trying to derail the thread here, but I'd love to know what you did in post to increase sharpness by so much. Gotta be more than just sharpness sliders in Lightroom/darktable. Wow!

This post explains the process in some detail as it was five months ago. It keeps changing; for example in Lightroom I'm now not using Autotone or the preset, and I'm now using two runs of Topaz DeNoise AI using different methods. Perhaps there are some other detailed changes that I've forgotten about. Still, it should give you a pretty good idea of what is involved.

Thanks for the link. That’s a very detailed description of your work flow - very helpful!

Papa48
Papa48 Senior Member • Posts: 3,702
Re: Full Frame vs Micro 4:3

J A C S wrote:

Dem Bell wrote:

The APS-C format is the answer to the M43 vs FF debate.

Neither here nor there?

or a little bit of both and?

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trungtran Senior Member • Posts: 1,545
Re: Don't die wondering

Papa48 wrote:

trungtran wrote:

Michael Piziak wrote:

I have neither, as I've only owned APS-C DSLR's.

Try it out at least once in your lifetime.

There are somethings a YouTube video or comments in a forum can't tell you.

It will just eat you up not truly knowing.

A lot of things remain unknown, when the journey of consciousness ends.

Of course there are many things that are unknown, these are usually things that you don't care about.

If people didn't care about sensor formats, they wouldn't actively watch a Youtube video and make a post on a forum.

The truth about these posts is that people that engage in them actually do care about sensor size.

OP made up his mind looking at a few bits of information and needed some self validation from other members that he has made the right decision.

I guess inside you, there is a little urge to know as well.

It's an itch that needs to be scratched. May as well just scratch it while you can.

Top regret when people die is not things that they have done, but things they never tried.

In my case, ignorance will probably be bliss until the end, with APS-C.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 51,745
Re: Don't die wondering

trungtran wrote:

OP made up his mind looking at a few bits of information and needed some self validation from other members that he has made the right decision.

This happens well beyond the camera world. If someone believes something then they will search for opinions that they agree with even if false. This happens a lot in politics and religion. People don't want to be challenged, to have their minds changed, to learn something new. I suspect we have all been guilty of it at one time or another.

Last summer I was having a political debate with someone online. When I asked him if he had ever watched a news channel that had people that expressed opinions different than his own he said "why would I do that. I only watch news that I agree with".

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Tom

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BrentSchumer
BrentSchumer Senior Member • Posts: 4,212
Re: Full Frame vs Micro 4:3
5

Wow, just what we need:  Another M43 vs FF thread!

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BrentSchumer
BrentSchumer Senior Member • Posts: 4,212
Re: Don't die wondering

Note that anyone can try out FF for a long weekend by renting from a site like LensRentals.com.  You don't have to plunk down a few thousand dollars.

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mujana Veteran Member • Posts: 7,566
Re: Do Not expect an enthusiastic reception.
4

Glen Barrington wrote:

Us m43s user have been saying this for years. Religious beliefs are difficult to abandon!

I have used Olympus for years (E3/E5/EM5). Love the system! Zuiko glass can be perfect. Size can be great (although not too much anymore with the more “pro” cameras from Olympus). Solidly build also. Very weather resistant (class leading I would say). But…..I really prefer the IQ of my former Sony A7RII and my present A7RIV files. I have to say that: - I print (A2), - like to crop whenever I want to (and still print A2), - put my nose up to a print to inspect, -like the more smooth gradations of my FF files.- pixel peep, - more malleable files. So, in general, FF really does it much better for me. I’m not religious and I have much respect for m4/3s and Olympus, but I see what I see and I can compare (m)4/3 files directly to my FF files.

I left Olympus solely for getting better IQ. And I found it. Next step could be medium format (cannot afford that at the moment).

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FingerPainter Forum Pro • Posts: 10,367
Lol, _you_ just just don't get it.
1

MyDog Is Incharge wrote:

I said these are different tools and each has their own strengths.

Indeed, you did. And I don't disagree.

I never said M43 is always going to be better.

Did I say you did?

But you shure think FF is always going to be smaller and better.

I specifically said somethings other than that, so you are the one who just doesn't get it.

And I predicted you got upset when I pointed out one way M43 is smaller or better. I don't think you'll ever be open minded.

The only place I go upset is when you lied about me cherry-picking my examples.

C Sean Veteran Member • Posts: 3,212
Re: Full Frame vs Micro 4:3
1

Michael Piziak wrote:

I viewed this 2018 video, to get a perspective of how much smaller the Olympus cameras are than other cameras... The video actually compares the micro 4:3 to a full frame camera when it comes to image quality. I have neither, as I've only owned APS-C DSLR's.

While I am impressed by the size of the micro 4:3, I actually came away with a conclusion that, just perhaps, all the talk about image quality advantage of a FF camera, perhaps, just perhaps, may be a bit of "hype."

The video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGn3yPl59ZM

To jump straight to the image comparison, you can click to about 8:50 in the video.

Regards,

Michael

My recommendation is to download RAW files from the latest Full Frame cameras and see for yourself. Jared Polin usually offer free RAW files downloads.

Full Frame is better than M43 when it comes to image quality but the gap between them isn't as big as some manufactures make it out to be. That said both Nikon, Sony and Canon are releasing excellent Full Frame primes. So you're getting the advantage of both a big sensor and excellent glass.

M43 is usually good for practical sense when image quality isn't as important but getting the shot is.

J A C S
J A C S Forum Pro • Posts: 19,534
Re: Full Frame vs Micro 4:3
6

C Sean wrote:

Full Frame is better than M43 when it comes to image quality but the gap between them isn't as big as some manufactures make it out to be.

Which FF manufacturers even mention m43?

BrentSchumer
BrentSchumer Senior Member • Posts: 4,212
Re: Full Frame vs Micro 4:3
4

J A C S wrote:

C Sean wrote:

Full Frame is better than M43 when it comes to image quality but the gap between them isn't as big as some manufactures make it out to be.

Which FF manufacturers even mention m43?

They don't, but M43 manufacturers love to mention FF and 1/3rd of equivalence ("Wow our tiny lens has the same reach as a FF lens twice its size with no drawbacks!  Free lunches for all!"

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Papa48
Papa48 Senior Member • Posts: 3,702
Re: Don't die wondering

trungtran wrote:

Papa48 wrote:

trungtran wrote:

Michael Piziak wrote:

I have neither, as I've only owned APS-C DSLR's.

Try it out at least once in your lifetime.

There are somethings a YouTube video or comments in a forum can't tell you.

It will just eat you up not truly knowing.

A lot of things remain unknown, when the journey of consciousness ends.

Of course there are many things that are unknown, these are usually things that you don't care about.

If people didn't care about sensor formats, they wouldn't actively watch a Youtube video and make a post on a forum.

The truth about these posts is that people that engage in them actually do care about sensor size.

OP made up his mind looking at a few bits of information and needed some self validation from other members that he has made the right decision.

I guess inside you, there is a little urge to know as well.

It's an itch that needs to be scratched. May as well just scratch it while you can.

Top regret when people die is not things that they have done, but things they never tried.

In my case, ignorance will probably be bliss until the end, with APS-C.

When did contentment become an unfortunate state of mind? I’m finally content with everything I own. Nothing against those who aren’t. Maybe one day they will be

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