X Rite i1 Display Pro

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Ken60 Senior Member • Posts: 2,979
X Rite i1 Display Pro

Other than plugging it in to a USB and seeing if the lights come on , are there any ways to test the abilities of this instrument ?

If yours started to fail , what would you expect to see and how would you differentiate between say a backlight failure on the monitor and a calibrator error.

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panos_m Senior Member • Posts: 1,624
Re: X Rite i1 Display Pro

Ken60 wrote:

Other than plugging it in to a USB and seeing if the lights come on , are there any ways to test the abilities of this instrument ?

If yours started to fail , what would you expect to see and how would you differentiate between say a backlight failure on the monitor and a calibrator error.

Did you try i1Diagnostics ?

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Panagiotis

OP Ken60 Senior Member • Posts: 2,979
Re: X Rite i1 Display Pro

Hi Panos, despite it saying

i1Display 1& 2

It fails to recognise the i1 Display Pro. I spoke to X Rite years back and raised this and was told it is a utility for the more professional calibrators !

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panos_m Senior Member • Posts: 1,624
Re: X Rite i1 Display Pro

Ken60 wrote:

Hi Panos, despite it saying

i1Display 1& 2

It fails to recognise the i1 Display Pro. I spoke to X Rite years back and raised this and was told it is a utility for the more professional calibrators !

Ok. Didn't know that.

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Panagiotis

OP Ken60 Senior Member • Posts: 2,979
Re: X Rite i1 Display Pro

Yes rather a slap when you look at the price of the New Pro calibrator that does HD etc.  Hundreds of pounds and no utility other than the basic bios type check in the profiling software.

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Petruska Veteran Member • Posts: 9,090
This is a very good question....

The only answer that I could give is to save the monitor ICC profile when you first use the I1Display Pro. Then when you question the same I1Display Pro device or the same monitor, calibrate the monitor and compare the 2 ICC profiles in 3D gamut plots for any major changes.  I use ColorThink Pro and with that app you can compare two ICC profiles with 130,000 sample color points and compare the DeltaE's.

Bob P.

OP Ken60 Senior Member • Posts: 2,979
Re: This is a very good question....

Great Bob unless you question the performance of an existing device with a new monitor.  I think some sort of check utility from the manufacturer is long overdue.... especially as they seem to value their i1Pro Plus  at nearly £300 !

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Petruska Veteran Member • Posts: 9,090
Re: This is a very good question....

According to Xrite they don’t calibrate I1Display Pros.

Read post #12276 here....

https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/recalibrating-i1-display-pro-with-a-x-rite-spectrometer/

Bob P.

OP Ken60 Senior Member • Posts: 2,979
Re: This is a very good question....

Thanks for that Bob, most interesting the argument in that thread of Argyle damaging  their driver and the need for removal etc.  The informed poster suggests its scare mongering !

Will Argyle write to the LUT on BenQ monitors ?   I am not so far a big fan of pallet master software.

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Howard Moftich Veteran Member • Posts: 9,986
Re: This is a very good question....

I dont think so (actually, REALLY doubt it since it would require essentially an API to write to the LUTs) but you might want to check w/ Graham (Argyll developer)

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OP Ken60 Senior Member • Posts: 2,979
Re: This is a very good question....

Thanks Howard, its an expensive business this colour doodling.  Nearly £300 for an i1 Display Pro Plus and another £600- £800  for beginners professional calibration software like Display Cal.

Sometimes I sit and remember back to seeing a sub 1 Delta E  form a simple sRGB screen and a Gretag colorimeter.

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Simon Garrett Veteran Member • Posts: 7,163
Re: This is a very good question....

Ken60 wrote:

Thanks for that Bob, most interesting the argument in that thread of Argyle damaging their driver and the need for removal etc. The informed poster suggests its scare mongering !

Will Argyle write to the LUT on BenQ monitors ? I am not so far a big fan of pallet master software.

I don't think any software will programme any hardware LUTs in monitors. You have to use the proprietary software for that monitor.

Arguably, that doesn't really matter. You could calibrate the Benq or whatever once in the desired state using Palette Master, then use Argyll to profile - but specify profile only (tell it not to calibrate by unchecking “Interactive display adjustment” in the calibration tab). You end up with an accurate profile. The profile could drift a little bit, but that normally doesn't matter. What matters is that the profile matches the monitor.

I have a Benq, and I agree that Pallete Master is grim compared to, say, Eizo's Colornavigator, but I recalibrate no more than once every couple of months, and I can put up with that amount of grimness!

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Simon

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Howard Moftich Veteran Member • Posts: 9,986
Re: This is a very good question....

take a look at basiccolor  (from Germany).  It's one of the very few that can write *some* LUTs and is the basis for much of the NEC software.

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OP Ken60 Senior Member • Posts: 2,979
Re: This is a very good question....

Simon, what version of PM are you using ?   Are you using Matrix or 16bit LUT, and are you writing V2  or V4 profiles ?

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Simon Garrett Veteran Member • Posts: 7,163
Re: This is a very good question....

Ken60 wrote:

Simon, what version of PM are you using ?

v1.3.15

Are you using Matrix or 16bit LUT,

Matrix

and are you writing V2 or V4 profiles ?

v2.

v4 can result in mysterious misbehaviour in some software, and last time I looked into it, no mainstream software makes use of v4 features.

This is on an SW271.  I also normally calibrate to "Panel Native", in order to calibrate to the widest gamut that it can manage.

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Simon

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OP Ken60 Senior Member • Posts: 2,979
Re: This is a very good question....

Thanks

Simon , so is it Adobe communicating directly with the LUT in the screen ..... or is it windows 10 ?  after all you have to have a win icc to tell it to leave stuff alone and send all channels full tilt.

Again it is said that to go from one profile to another you need to adjust the win icc, interesting because it is just a blank anyway, all the head work is in the monitor's lut ?

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Simon Garrett Veteran Member • Posts: 7,163
Re: This is a very good question....

Ken60 wrote:

Thanks

Simon , so is it Adobe communicating directly with the LUT in the screen ..... or is it windows 10 ?

Well, neither really.

A monitor with internal LUTs can emulate another colour space, provided the emulated colour space is within the native colour space.  For example, a wide gamut monitor with a colour space of roughly Adobe RGB can emulate sRGB (which is entirely within Adobe RGB), but a monitor with a colour space of roughly sRGB can't emulate Adobe RGB, as that needs colours outside sRGB which the monitor can't display.

It does the emulation by mapping the RGB values sent to the monitor to the appropriate ones for its native gamut.  Suppose the LUT is calibrated so that the monitor with native colour space of about Adobe RGB  is emulating sRGB.  After calibrating the LUT to this sRGB emulation, then profiling will create a monitor profile of sRGB.

Suppose then a program displays fully saturated green.  A fully saturated green in sRGB has R,G,B values of 0,255,0.  But in Adobe RGB, the same colour will be something like 140,230,60.  The LUT will have entries to make that translation.

But: neither Adobe software nor Windows know anything about this.  They both just think they have an sRGB monitor. Well, Windows doesn't give a damn, but colour managed software will look at the monitor profile, which will be sRGB or similar, because that's how the monitor is calibrated in this example.

after all you have to have a win icc to tell it to leave stuff alone and send all channels full tilt.

That's not what happens.  A profile is a description of the colour space of a device.  It tells colour managed programs the colour space of the device - monitor, printer or whatever.

Again it is said that to go from one profile to another you need to adjust the win icc, interesting because it is just a blank anyway, all the head work is in the monitor's lut ?

Not quite.  A profile is a measurement of the colour space of a device (also contains information about white point, Tone Response Curve (TRC) and a few other things).  That information is never blank.

For a monitor that doesn't have internal LUTs, then the graphics card can provide limited calibration of white point and TRC.  Graphic cards have 1D LUTs, which can't map colour spaces (that needs 3D LUTs) but can map white point and TRC.  In that case, calibration generates LUT information for the graphics card (as opposed to the internal LUTs of a monitor that has them).  That calibration LUT information doesn't strictly "belong" in a profile, but years ago Adobe invented a "vcgt" entry (video card gamma table) in icc profiles that is used to store the LUT info.  That vcgt info is read and loaded into the graphics card LUT at boot up.

For a monitor that does have internal LUTs, the video card doesn't need anything loaded into its LUTs, and the vcgt calibration in the profile is blank, but the colour space information is still needed.

To go from one profile to another: if you have a monitor with internal LUTs, in other words a monitor that can emulate different colour spaces, then if you change from one emulation to another, you have to do three things:

  1. Change the LUT calibration.  On most monitors with internal LUTs you can store multiple calibrations and switch between them with a front panel button, or sometimes by a utility program.
  2. Change the monitor profile in Windows to the appropriate one for the new calibration.
  3. Most software assumes the profile doesn't change, and checks the monitor profile only when they start, so you often need to exit and restart any program running that writes to the monitor before they notice the change of calibration.  Photoshop regularly checks the monitor profile, so you don't need to restart it.  Just do something that makes it re-render the image. 

Eizo has a utility called "Colornavigator" for their monitors which does both 1 and 2, but you still have to do 3.

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Simon

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