Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..

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Josemi Forum Member • Posts: 60
Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
1

Don't you think there has been a turning point where graphic art (drawing) merged with photography and there is currently no dividing line in the artistic world?
For example, who is a photographer? The one who knows how to take photos, frame them, have a scene view, correct values, etc ... or the one who knows how to squeeze image processing programs and do something incredible from a simple image and maybe some of them don't even know how to take a picture? In the past some were photographers and others were laboratory technicians, and many of us knew how to do both, but now, for example, I even know people who only work with the mobile phone and its filters, they even send them the images of celebrations and retouch them on them and They sell them and the incredible thing is that people buy, look for them and are happy with those jobs.
Photographers, computer scientists, graphic artists ... what are we becoming ...?
And apart from this, don't you think that the big brands take advantage of these softwares to calmly not advance as they should in hardware and improve noise in isos, approaches, etc. and delegate the work to these processing programs because they are both interested? , I do not stop seeing people complaining that they do not update the software to improve the noise, emails sending them that they should do this, the other ... but ... we should not ask those responsible for the camera brand that we have for not offering us what What do we need and not a secondary ...? I don't know ... it's just a reflection ...

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Flavil Regular Member • Posts: 318
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
3

Josemi wrote:

Don't you think there has been a turning point where graphic art (drawing) merged with photography and there is currently no dividing line in the artistic world?
For example, who is a photographer?

Absolutely, and it is glorious. We all have our very own sandboxes. Who is a photographer and its definition is of nippy, nil, zero, jack squat importance to anyone but a fringe group of polyhistoric obelisks seeking shelter from dastardly change.

Be a digialphartist or a reality representativist, whatever you like.

I think I saw a modern thinker come up with that term on a forum somewhere while changing the narrative of a newly started conversation in today's society. Be whatever makes you happy.

Klaus dk
Klaus dk Veteran Member • Posts: 8,081
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
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Enjoy doing what you like and don't let others' freedom to do the same ruin your day.

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Cherry_F
Cherry_F Regular Member • Posts: 492
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
2

Good questions.

But I wouldn't say that photographers, or artists, you name them, are computer scientists. I used to be one, I teach computer science, and it has nothing much to do with photography. It's like assuming every car driver could design his own car...

As for photography vs. graphical art, it is not so widespread. Everyone can take pictures, everyone can push Lightroom or Photoshop sliders, but not everyone knows about drawing. Observing pictures on the web, the vast majority of photographers are not very creative IMHO - I include myself in the picture   - and there is much conformity .

Gato Amarillo Veteran Member • Posts: 8,046
It's all about the content
3

I see terms like "visual storyteller" and "content creator"all the time now. When graphic artists, designers, and photographers are all using the same tools -- computers, software, and cameras -- it seems inevitable the boundaries will blur. Or even disappear. While most people have some specialty most can work across the range to at least some extent.

If you can make a picture people want to look at, something that speaks to an audience or moves them, then nobody really cares what tools you used. If you can make pictures that sell does it really matter whether you use a traditional camera or a camera built into a smartphone? Even if it's just for yourself, if you make pictures that bring you joy, does it matter how? Or if you enjoy doing straight photography does it matter if someone else uses filters?

By background and choice I am primarily a photographer, with more than 50 years in and around professional photography. But in recent years I have also worked as a designer and sometimes an illustrator. At age 72 I teamed with a 22-year-old rapper to make music videos. All this thanks to the fact that I can do it all on one computer with the same suite of tools. I'm having a great time.

My only complaint is there is so much to learn that I may not live long enough to take full advantage.

Gato

Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 17,871
Fads, trends, classics
1

Josemi wrote:

And apart from this, don't you think that the big brands take advantage of these softwares to calmly not advance as they should in hardware and improve noise in isos, approaches, etc. and delegate the work to these processing programs because they are both interested? , I do not stop seeing people complaining that they do not update the software to improve the noise, emails sending them that they should do this, the other ... but ... we should not ask those responsible for the camera brand that we have for not offering us what What do we need and not a secondary ...? I don't know ... it's just a reflection ...

Recall Sturgeon’s revelation, that ninety-percent of everything is crud.

Smartphones have of course far outstripped dedicated cameras in terms of processing, but the results of so much of that processing can be rightly called crud.

My stepdaughters, who were until recently teenagers, would frequently use some special digital effect or another on their smartphone photos for a few weeks and then discard it. Sure, digitally putting rabbit ears or giant googly eyes on someone in a photo is fun—for a while—but like all fads, it is quickly (and usually permanently) discarded. These effects are the not the classics of the photography/graphic arts world, but are more likely crud. Even the girls wouldn't use some particularly cruddy effects, such as the filter that would turn someone's face demonic, which was disturbing rather than fun.

Dedicated cameras almost always have custom firmware instead of a flexible, all-purpose operating system like Android. While this does lose flexibility for fanciful updates, it has the advantage of stability and reliability. I do notice the newer trend of camera makers using firmware upgrades for actually adding new features, but these tend to be logical and moderate.

Dedicated cameras tend to forego fads, being more interested in the classics.

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OP Josemi Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..

Yes, maybe they are temporary fashions like now that there are more interested in video than ever, maybe youtube call effect, twich, etc ... but for example, in the photograph one was photographing the sunrise and it was beautiful, today if not You put hdr to the top it does not seem the same ... maybe the 4k tv have made us see how not even nature is capable of showing, incredible details, and we look for sharp perfection, the most extreme hdr, the total lack of noise at night , the most unusual colors ... and I think we have forgotten that for example night is night, and we know it from the stage, the colors, noise, etc ... it is as if you had a natural freckle on your face, they made you a retreat and they will take it away from you..you would no longer be natural and someone would not even recognize you .. and whoever did not know you would want to see you without a freckle not with a freckle because that is what they have seen and that is what they expect .. perfection We are moving away from naturalness and inadvertently many are frustrated by it, perhaps we live in the most liberal era ar Thistically but ironically it is the least natural and that creates school, pillars on which the new generations support and not only in the field of photography but in everything ... perfection, and if you do not have it you must pretend ... another example : Children, we are so busy trying to give them everything so that they do not lack for anything and have fun buying things or pointing them to all the extracurricular activity that later we are surprised to see them play with a stick on the ground and be happy ... no I am angry, nor indignant, I am practically retired even when I am very young, but I am surprised to see how everything evolves and we distance ourselves from reality, from nature and in many cases from society ... I am simply a spectator of life and society ..

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OP Josemi Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
1

I dedicate this sunset to all of you the other day trying my wife's camera, a tz200 ... the only unnatural thing was me lying on the ground and people looking at me in case something had happened to me in the middle of our daughter's park hahaha, I know, I need a rotating screen..hahaha

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sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 21,326
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
2

Josemi wrote:

Don't you think there has been a turning point where graphic art (drawing) merged with photography and there is currently no dividing line in the artistic world?

The dividing line between photography and other activities (including drawing) was crossed shortly after photography was invented, and numerous other crossings have occurred since then. The longer the history of photography continues, the more 'turning points' and crossing of dividing lines there will be.

OP Josemi Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..

Yes, but it is curious, in medicine or other specialties it branches more and more and specializes towards something specific, on the other hand in art it is the other way around, even in music .. fusion .. in fact I think we will get to this step to see pictures or portraits that will be gifs in 3d moving making a gesture or even landscapes or flowers in 3d in motion with aromatherapy that makes you think you are there ... art is infinite and modernity surprising at least ...

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Aaron801 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,201
I wouldn't worry about it...
2

I don't really see that the tools make the artist and so if someone can do something really creative will cell phone images and sell the prints that they make, I'm fine with it. Go back several decades and there were artists that worked with Polaroids, or with a cheap plastic lens camera known as the Diana. If you can do something really interesting and compelling with really ordinary tools that are available to nearly everyone, I'd say that you're on the right track!

I'm not sure just what it is that you're saying about image editing software, but know that a lot of folks use that not just for weird manipulations of photos but for actual graphic design work. There have been artists who borrow from the aesthetic of graphic design, going way back, to Andy Warhol and earlier so that there can be a bit of blurry line between the two... and I don't have a problem with that. I suppose that if you're going to call something "straight photography" than it really shouldn't be manipulated, but if your goal is just to create compelling images, then I figure that everything is up for grabs...

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lost alaskan
lost alaskan Senior Member • Posts: 2,286
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..

Your like what? 25? You just got out of college. Did you graduate? You know what sophomoric means. It's not necessarily bad, it's just a stage we go through. Happiness isn't the same from decade to decade.  If your convinced your happy and tell everyone that you are, you are probably not working  hard enough(at 25).

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OP Josemi Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..

lost alaskan wrote:

Your like what? 25? You just got out of college. Did you graduate? You know what sophomoric means. It's not necessarily bad, it's just a stage we go through. Happiness isn't the same from decade to decade. If your convinced your happy and tell everyone that you are, you are probably not working hard enough(at 25).

I wish I were 25 years old, I wish I could have gone to university ... I don't understand your comment, does it bother you that people are happy? Does it bother you that people comment on your thoughts? I do not need to show people that I am happy, I am sorry if you have taken it for granted and my happiness has bothered you ..

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Klaus dk
Klaus dk Veteran Member • Posts: 8,081
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
2

Josemi wrote:

lost alaskan wrote:

Your like what? 25? You just got out of college. Did you graduate? You know what sophomoric means. It's not necessarily bad, it's just a stage we go through. Happiness isn't the same from decade to decade. If your convinced your happy and tell everyone that you are, you are probably not working hard enough(at 25).

I wish I were 25 years old, I wish I could have gone to university ... I don't understand your comment, does it bother you that people are happy? Does it bother you that people comment on your thoughts? I do not need to show people that I am happy, I am sorry if you have taken it for granted and my happiness has bothered you ..

To be honest, your initial post was not perfectly clear either.

I'm still a bit puzzled as to what you're so concerned about.

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lost alaskan
lost alaskan Senior Member • Posts: 2,286
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
1

Referring to Flavil.

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OP Josemi Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..

lost alaskan wrote:

Referring to Flavil.

Sorry, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

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OP Josemi Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..

To be honest, your initial post was not perfectly clear either.

I'm still a bit puzzled as to what you're so concerned about.

I apologize if I have not been able to explain myself, maybe my English is not good or my way of saying it is incorrect. It simply stated that photography has gone from the first photographers who were the ones who learned the techniques apart from their vision of life that they captured in photography to now that almost any photo can be retouched with the computer and make it incredible, but then Is that photography or graphic design? That is what I commented in the post, that branches of art have joined and merged apparently .. There are photographs that I see on the internet that of the original or natural photo only have 10% and others that you do not know if you can believe what you see or not ... many users request raw raw to see how a camera or lens is unwrapped because they are interested in buying it and they do not find "virgin" photos with hardly any retouching all over the internet, others travel to places that later are not as they had seen in photos or propaganda .. then that is my thought, has it been for the better? Where is the line of reality and fiction? The new young people grow up seeing that and thinking that it is normal and that it is beautiful and that perhaps exists and many when they see or do not feel those things often lose the meaning of life and nature ... they lose reality and what it can offer .. and I also think that the camera industry now increasingly delegates to post-processing programs the improvements they should give to their hardware and they have made us blame and ask for updates to these programs instead of the camera brands when before we did not demand so much from laboratories or people who retouched the photos with paint or charcoal ... but as I comment, I do not know how to explain it and I apologize for it, perhaps in my specialty I have not needed to modify the photos in those ways photos (it does not mean that I have not used and may know how to use these programs but in a different way in my opinion) and that is why it may seem strange to me, what I think is simply my IMHO, perhaps anti quaint but open to understanding and learning ...

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jrtrent Veteran Member • Posts: 6,221
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
1

Josemi wrote:

Don't you think there has been a turning point where graphic art (drawing) merged with photography and there is currently no dividing line in the artistic world?

When it comes to taking pictures, I have zero interest in the artistic world. The hobby of photography has always been, for me and just about everyone I know, simply a means to record visual reminders of people, places, and events. Some of us also get a great deal of pleasure reading about, comparing, and finally purchasing the equipment we choose to take pictures with, but we still don't consider taking pictures to be any kind of artistic endeavor.

For example, who is a photographer? The one who knows how to take photos, frame them, have a scene view, correct values, etc ... or the one who knows how to squeeze image processing programs and do something incredible from a simple image and maybe some of them don't even know how to take a picture? In the past some were photographers and others were laboratory technicians, and many of us knew how to do both, but now, for example, I even know people who only work with the mobile phone and its filters, they even send them the images of celebrations and retouch them on them and They sell them and the incredible thing is that people buy, look for them and are happy with those jobs.

I do occasionally buy a book of photographs. I have no idea of the processes taken in making the images, but they've ranged from virtually unidentifiable abstractions to straightforward history or travel photos.

Photographers, computer scientists, graphic artists ... what are we becoming ...?
And apart from this, don't you think that the big brands take advantage of these softwares to calmly not advance as they should in hardware and improve noise in isos, approaches, etc. and delegate the work to these processing programs because they are both interested? , I do not stop seeing people complaining that they do not update the software to improve the noise, emails sending them that they should do this, the other ... but ... we should not ask those responsible for the camera brand that we have for not offering us what What do we need and not a secondary ...? I don't know ... it's just a reflection ...

I think the progress in noise reduction has been phenomenal. My first digital camera was the Leica Digilux 1, which I found unusable at ISO 400, and it still amazes me to see how much better small-sensor cameras have become. DSLR's have improved a lot, too, as a comparison of my 2006 Samsung with a friend's 2018 Nikon (both being budget APS-C models) easily shows.

Klaus dk
Klaus dk Veteran Member • Posts: 8,081
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..

Josemi wrote:

To be honest, your initial post was not perfectly clear either.

I'm still a bit puzzled as to what you're so concerned about.

I apologize if I have not been able to explain myself, maybe my English is not good or my way of saying it is incorrect. It simply stated that photography has gone from the first photographers who were the ones who learned the techniques apart from their vision of life that they captured in photography to now that almost any photo can be retouched with the computer and make it incredible, but then Is that photography or graphic design?

If you had studied the history of photography, you would know that retouch and picture manipulation has been part of photography from very early on. Search the "Cottingley Fairies" to see examples that are more than a 100 years old.

That is what I commented in the post, that branches of art have joined and merged apparently .. There are photographs that I see on the internet that of the original or natural photo only have 10% and others that you do not know if you can believe what you see or not ...

I think that has been the case for hundreds of years. Believing something just because a picture of it exists has always been naïve. Turn up the saturation and the grass is definitely greener ...

... many users request raw raw to see how a camera or lens is unwrapped because they are interested in buying it and they do not find "virgin" photos with hardly any retouching all over the internet,

I'm not certain I grasp your meaning here, but there are several independent reviewers, so errors are quickly exposed.

[...] others travel to places that later are not as they had seen in photos or propaganda .. then that is my thought, has it been for the better? Where is the line of reality and fiction?

It's always been blurred. The good old days weren't always as good as you think. Robert Capa's "Loyalist Militiaman at the Moment of Death, Cerro Muriano, September 7, 1936" is a strong photo with a message touching most people, but recent analysis has shown it may be a fabrication.

The new young people grow up seeing that and thinking that it is normal and that it is beautiful and that perhaps exists and many when they see or do not feel those things often lose the meaning of life and nature ... they lose reality and what it can offer ..

Without wanting to go into politics, I think photography (and its derivatives) are far from the worst offender. AFAIK, studies show that young people are very good at sorting the chaff from the wheat.

and I also think that the camera industry now increasingly delegates to post-processing programs the improvements they should give to their hardware and they have made us blame and ask for updates to these programs instead of the camera brands when before we did not demand so much from laboratories or people who retouched the photos with paint or charcoal ...

WA zooms have benefited greatly from software corrections. The Canon RF 24-240 would be impossible without it, but perhaps you're thinking of something else.

but as I comment, I do not know how to explain it and I apologize for it, perhaps in my specialty I have not needed to modify the photos in those ways photos (it does not mean that I have not used and may know how to use these programs but in a different way in my opinion) and that is why it may seem strange to me, what I think is simply my IMHO, perhaps anti quaint but open to understanding and learning ...

Considering the complexity of your thought process, you might benefit from using punctuation to keep the different subjects apart.

Good luck and good light.

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Dennis Forum Pro • Posts: 20,486
Re: Photograph...graphic art....informatic..reflexions..
1

The way I figure it, there are 7 billion people on our planet, each with a unique brain; a unique pattern of thoughts in response to any stimulus. 7 billion is a ridiculously large number. If I could spend 15 minutes with a different person for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, I could spend 50 years getting to know a little bit about all of the people born in a single day.

So I consider it pointless to insist on dividing lines and neat and tidy boxes in which to categorize things. Photography encompasses a lot of things, including many that your or I haven't even considered. I just do my thing. You ask: "what are we becoming ?" We each control what we, individually are becoming, and time will tell what "we", collectively, are becoming. I'm only concerned with the "me" part of "we".

- Dennis
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