Concert videography: GH4 vs GH5 vs GH5s? And lens recommendation?

Hello,

I shoot live classical music concert videos, and am looking at these three Panasonics. I could use advice as to whether the price jump from GH4 to GH5 would be worth it (or the GH5s)? The advantages I read about don't seem particularly relevant for my own work.  A few notes:

- my camera is always mounted on a tripod

- the stage is always well lit.

- there is no movement on stage. I don't need to re-focus once the shoot has begun.

I am looking for great dynamic range and sharpness, with 4K shooting. I currently shoot on an FZ2500 and am looking to upgrade the quality.

ALSO - I would love recommendations for one good zoom lens to obtain with any of these cameras.

Thank you!

The GH5s probably suits your use case best (tripod, manual focus, best 4K IQ).

You might wish to add the GH5 MKII and G9 to that list.
Lens wise, it all depends on how long a range you need. The ones to consider could be:
10-25mm f1.7
PL 12-60mm f2.8/4.0
35-100mm f2.8
50-200mm f2.8.4.0

I only have the 12-60mm and 35-100mm from that list, and it works quite well for me. They don't lose focus when zooming in or out. For when I need the best possible shutter speed to avoid video lag I use the 15mm, 25mm, and 42.5mm, which are f1.7.

Are you going to do post processing to maximize the dynamic range, i.e. shoot with log profile? If yes, then I recommend at least GH4R (or GH4 with vlog upgrade).

EU version of GH4 has 30min recording limit, but GH4R does not have that limit. GH4 with vlog update still has that limit. Versions sold outside the EU should not have the 30min limit.

GH5 is of course better and does not have these limits, but is much more expensive. GH5s is even better in terms of image quality and I believe dynamic range.

You could also get the little sister of GH5, the G85. It does not support VLOG, and has less professional features than GH5. In Europe the camera is sold as G80 and G81, and these cameras have 30min recording limitation, but G85 does not have this limit.

Cheaper still is the little sister of GH4, the G7. It has 30min limitation, but it can be disabled by entering the service mode.

Considering image quality, there is difference between G7, GH4, G85, GH5 and GH5s, but I don't think most of the people could not tell the difference without comparing the footage next to next. There are some footage comparison videos available, such as: https://youtu.be/GHY0VDMbJRk

Considering lenses, what are the focal lengths (and apertures and sensitivity (ISO) values) you have typically been using with your previous camera?

I only have the 12-60mm and 35-100mm from that list, and it works quite well for me. They don't lose focus when zooming in or out.

Are you quite sure? If I remember correctly from past discussions, no M43 lenses are truly parfocal (with the possible exception of cinema lenses).

edit: Well, where the PL 12-60mm is concerned, this person agrees with you that it behaves parfocal: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63286508

Sranang Boi wrote:

You might wish to add the GH5 MKII and G9 to that list.

I was going to say add the newly announced GH5 MKII.  However for a concert, I would suspect that you don't want the G9 as it can't record more than 30 minutes of continuous video.

Between the GH5 and the GH5s, the GH5s drops IBIS stablization (which you don't need on a tripod), but it adds higher ISO sensitivity.  It depends on how dark the concert hall is.  Note, the GH5 is more suited towards both photo stills and video, while the GH5s is more tuned to just video.

Lens wise, it all depends on how long a range you need. The ones to consider could be:
10-25mm f1.7
PL 12-60mm f2.8/4.0
35-100mm f2.8
50-200mm f2.8.4.0

I only have the 12-60mm and 35-100mm from that list, and it works quite well for me. They don't lose focus when zooming in or out. For when I need the best possible shutter speed to avoid video lag I use the 15mm, 25mm, and 42.5mm, which are f1.7.

Panasonic also has a 12-35mm f/2.8 lens that would be in between the 10-25mm f/1.7 lens and the Panasonic 12-60mm f/2.8-4 lenses in terms of low light behavior.  Plus there are a slew of Olympus lenses as well.

There is a newly announced 25-50mm f/1.7 lens that was just announced.

How far are you and do you know the focal length you need?

If the stage is well lit there won't be significant differences between GH5 and s

But a good lens makes all the difference and if you need a zoom this complicates matters further

pannumon wrote:

You could also get the little sister of GH5, the G85. It does not support VLOG, and has less professional features than GH5. In Europe the camera is sold as G80 and G81, and these cameras have 30min recording limitation, but G85 does not have this limit.

Note, the G85 is a 4 year old camera. I own the G85 and use it for video.  One downside is it does not have a headphone jack so you can monitor the sound as it is being recorded.  I lost about 13 minutes of sound from a show I was recording because I didn't realize the microphone wasn't plugged in correctly (since I didn't monitor the sound).

There is now a replacement for it: G90/G95 which uses the 20mp sensor.  It has a headphone jack and no video record limit even in the G90 European version.  However, the G95 in the USA comes bundled with a lens you may not want for low light settings.  Also unfortunately, the G90/G95 has a heavier crop of the lenses when shooting in 4K mode (1.26x vs. 1.1x for the G80/G81/G85 vs. none for the GH5/G9/etc.).

The G85 being a middle camera, it often doesn't get firmware updates to add features like you see in the high end models (GH5, GH5s, G9).

If you are buying used, consider with todays announcement of the GH5 mark II and notification that the GH6 will be announced within the year, there may more GH5's on the used mark as people want/need to upgrade to the current best.

Cheaper still is the little sister of GH4, the G7. It has 30min limitation, but it can be disabled by entering the service mode.

Considering image quality, there is difference between G7, GH4, G85, GH5 and GH5s, but I don't think most of the people could not tell the difference without comparing the footage next to next. There are some footage comparison videos available, such as: https://youtu.be/GHY0VDMbJRk

Considering lenses, what are the focal lengths (and apertures and sensitivity (ISO) values) you have typically been using with your previous camera?

Michael Meissner wrote:

Note, the G85 is a 4 year old camera. I own the G85 and use it for video. One downside is it does not have a headphone jack so you can monitor the sound as it is being recorded.

Audio levels can be monitored on the screen, but of course this is not the same thing.

I lost about 13 minutes of sound from a show I was recording because I didn't realize the microphone wasn't plugged in correctly (since I didn't monitor the sound).

This happens very easily for various reasons: mic is not properly plugged in, mic is not on, battery is empty (because microphone accidentally was turned on in the bag; Rode Stereo VideoMic is especially annoying in this sense: I store the 9V battery in reverse position inside the mic to prevent this happening).

I consider two devices recording audio as a must. An external audio recorder with built-in microphones is a good backup solution, and often it can be placed closer to the subject. Another solution is one or two more cameras. This also gives plenty of other benefits.

There is now a replacement for it: G90/G95 which uses the 20mp sensor. It has a headphone jack and no video record limit even in the G90 European version. However, the G95 in the USA comes bundled with a lens you may not want for low light settings. Also unfortunately, the G90/G95 has a heavier crop of the lenses when shooting in 4K mode (1.26x vs. 1.1x for the G80/G81/G85 vs. none for the GH5/G9/etc.).

G90 may be a good choice, if the price is right. However, I expect that a used GH4 is cheaper than a new G90. Then again, new is new, and it may be possible to acquire a second hand G90 as well.

pannumon wrote:

This happens very easily for various reasons: mic is not properly plugged in, mic is not on, battery is empty (because microphone accidentally was turned on in the bag; Rode Stereo VideoMic is especially annoying in this sense: I store the 9V battery in reverse position inside the mic to prevent this happening).

Yep, I recently added an external monitor (Andycine C6) that I should be able to use headsets on to monitor sound, at least for spot checks. But mostly it was a call that I need to pay attention to the sound level.

I consider two devices recording audio as a must. An external audio recorder with built-in microphones is a good backup solution, and often it can be placed closer to the subject. Another solution is one or two more cameras. This also gives plenty of other benefits.

I also bought an Olympus LS-P4 which does sound recording as well. I thought perhaps using it as the external microphone, but it may be simpler just use it as a separate backup sound source.

In this case, I actually had a second camera (LX10) that I was controlling via wifi. But I didn't start it up until the middle of the first performance, so I don't have the complete sound from either.

Live and learn. We'll see if the troupe that I've done recordings for comes back with new live shows that I can test this out.

And similarly for my friends that directed small renaissance faires where I recorded each of the performers, whether they will take up the mantle and do faires once again.  This one I'm less certain of.  They were pretty burned out when they stopped doing faire at the end of 2018 before Covid.

There is now a replacement for it: G90/G95 which uses the 20mp sensor. It has a headphone jack and no video record limit even in the G90 European version. However, the G95 in the USA comes bundled with a lens you may not want for low light settings. Also unfortunately, the G90/G95 has a heavier crop of the lenses when shooting in 4K mode (1.26x vs. 1.1x for the G80/G81/G85 vs. none for the GH5/G9/etc.).

G90 may be a good choice, if the price is right. However, I expect that a used GH4 is cheaper than a new G90. Then again, new is new, and it may be possible to acquire a second hand G90 as well.

I wasn't sure if the GH4 had unlimited record time.

ivan bayu wrote:

Danielvr wrote:

I only have the 12-60mm and 35-100mm from that list, and it works quite well for me. They don't lose focus when zooming in or out.

Are you quite sure? If I remember correctly from past discussions, no M43 lenses are truly parfocal (with the possible exception of cinema lenses).

edit: Well, where the PL 12-60mm is concerned, this person agrees with you that it behaves parfocal: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63286508

yes, that pl 12-60mm f2.8-4 is parfocal. also the 12-35mm and 35-100mm f2.8 are somewhat quite parfocal. then the expensive brothers: 10-25mm and 25-50mm f1.7 are parfocal.

I think there is some kind of software controlled compensation going on. This would mean that strictly speaking (some of the mentioned lenses) are not parfocal, but in practice pretty much they are. I may be wrong.

pannumon wrote:

ivan bayu wrote:

Danielvr wrote:

I only have the 12-60mm and 35-100mm from that list, and it works quite well for me. They don't lose focus when zooming in or out.

Are you quite sure? If I remember correctly from past discussions, no M43 lenses are truly parfocal (with the possible exception of cinema lenses).

edit: Well, where the PL 12-60mm is concerned, this person agrees with you that it behaves parfocal: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63286508

yes, that pl 12-60mm f2.8-4 is parfocal. also the 12-35mm and 35-100mm f2.8 are somewhat quite parfocal. then the expensive brothers: 10-25mm and 25-50mm f1.7 are parfocal.

I think there is some kind of software controlled compensation going on. This would mean that strictly speaking (some of the mentioned lenses) are not parfocal, but in practice pretty much they are. I may be wrong.

Yes you need to focus at long range and then go back it will still be in focus and from there you can zoom in

pannumon wrote:

I think there is some kind of software controlled compensation going on. This would mean that strictly speaking (some of the mentioned lenses) are not parfocal, but in practice pretty much they are. I may be wrong.

I think  it is done via the power of mind control. I might be wrong.

Sranang Boi wrote:

pannumon wrote:

I think there is some kind of software controlled compensation going on. This would mean that strictly speaking (some of the mentioned lenses) are not parfocal, but in practice pretty much they are. I may be wrong.

I think it is done via the power of mind control. I might be wrong.

Just because I did not have time to search for a reference, and because I admit that I may remember wrong does not mean that I made this up.

See the link below for more information about focus correction.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60814706