How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?

Started 3 months ago | Questions
SergeSkor New Member • Posts: 24
How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?

I have 7380 x 4928 raw file (Nikon D810), I would like to print it, using WhiteWall.com service, 24" x 36" in ultra-HD (see details: https://www.whitewall.com/us/acrylic-prints/ultra-hd-print). Never have printing before in big format with high resolution, so my question is: when exporting tiff-file from raw, using Lightroom, should I resample my raw to higher resolution? Or live resolution as it is in raw file (7380 x 4928) and let them to resample?

If better to resample - to which resolution? 300dpi?

P.S. Copied this post into "Printers and Printing" forum, but cannot remove it from here anymore, sorry

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Quarkcharmed
Quarkcharmed Senior Member • Posts: 1,340
Re: How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?
2

SergeSkor wrote:

I have 7380 x 4928 raw file (Nikon D810), I would like to print it, using WhiteWall.com service, 24" x 36" in ultra-HD (see details: https://www.whitewall.com/us/acrylic-prints/ultra-hd-print). Never have printing before in big format with high resolution, so my question is: when exporting tiff-file from raw, using Lightroom, should I resample my raw to higher resolution? Or live resolution as it is in raw file (7380 x 4928) and let them to resample?

If better to resample - to which resolution? 300dpi?

First of all your can't resample to 'dpi', you can only resample to ppi. It'll be the longest dimension in pixels (7380) divided by longest target print dimension (36"). With your image and without up-sampling, you already have 205ppi which isn't bad at all.

If you really need 300ppi, I'd suggest to use some dedicated software to up-sample and create fake detail. The latest Photoshop can do it, but because you already have 205ppi, I wouldn't bother to be honest.

However check the technical requirements of that printing facility.

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dccberry Contributing Member • Posts: 844
Re: How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?

I would just send the file as-is and let them re-sample it. They will have good methods for upsizing properly for their printers.

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BrownieVet Senior Member • Posts: 3,817
Depends on your preference!

If you want the print to be as-is out of the camera,  just send the NEF file and specify he print size you want.
If you want to perform whatever enhancement you wish,  save the result of your editing as a JPEG  and use the largest pixel dimension you wish.  Send the JPEG file to the printer and specify the print size you want.
If you want to continue editing where you left-off,  save to your editor NATIVE FILE FORMAT.  Don't worry,  your original NEF file will not be harm.
You may continue further editing by loading the NATIVE FILE.
If you want to keep the first edit version,  simply use the VERSION feature of your editor.

Quarkcharmed
Quarkcharmed Senior Member • Posts: 1,340
Re: Depends on your preference!
1

BrownieVet wrote:

If you want the print to be as-is out of the camera, just send the NEF file and specify he print size you want.

I'd be hugely surprised if  any printer accepts raw files. If they do, it'll probably be at an additional fee. I'd strongly suggest to not send the original raw files.

If you want to perform whatever enhancement you wish, save the result of your editing as a JPEG and use the largest pixel dimension you wish. Send the JPEG file to the printer and specify the print size you want.

It doesn't have to be a jpeg, can be tiff. Whatever is required or recommended by the printer.

If you want to continue editing where you left-off, save to your editor NATIVE FILE FORMAT.

Don't worry, your original NEF file will not be harm.

It won't harm in Lightroom, moreover you don't actually 'save' your edits in Lightroom, everything is saved automatically.

You may continue further editing by loading the NATIVE FILE.

This isn't really applicable to Lightroom.

If you want to keep the first edit version, simply use the VERSION feature of your editor.

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Al D Contributing Member • Posts: 704
Re: How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?
3

SergeSkor wrote:

I have 7380 x 4928 raw file (Nikon D810), I would like to print it, using WhiteWall.com service, 24" x 36" in ultra-HD (see details: https://www.whitewall.com/us/acrylic-prints/ultra-hd-print). Never have printing before in big format with high resolution, so my question is: when exporting tiff-file from raw, using Lightroom, should I resample my raw to higher resolution? Or live resolution as it is in raw file (7380 x 4928) and let them to resample?

If better to resample - to which resolution? 300dpi?

P.S. Copied this post into "Printers and Printing" forum, but cannot remove it from here anymore, sorry

You can find answers to most of your questions by reading their FAQ: Image File Requirements | WhiteWall

Not with this print shop but I recently had two large panoramas printed on canvas, 72"x30" and 60"x30". I prepared the files for printing, resampled each of them in PS to the correct size and resolution and uploaded in tiff.

A suggestion for you: print usually will render darker than the backlit images you view on your monitor. If you have your own printer it would be a good idea to do a test print in a smaller size (like 4x6) and adjust if necessary.

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Al D Contributing Member • Posts: 704
Re: Depends on your preference!

Quarkcharmed wrote:

BrownieVet wrote:

If you want the print to be as-is out of the camera, just send the NEF file and specify he print size you want.

I'd be hugely surprised if any printer accepts raw files. If they do, it'll probably be at an additional fee. I'd strongly suggest to not send the original raw files.

You're right, jpeg or tiff only: Image File Requirements | WhiteWall

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BrownieVet Senior Member • Posts: 3,817
Re: Depends on your preference!

Quarkcharmed wrote:

BrownieVet wrote:

If you want the print to be as-is out of the camera, just send the NEF file and specify he print size you want.

I'd be hugely surprised if any printer accepts raw files. If they do, it'll probably be at an additional fee. I'd strongly suggest to not send the original raw files.

Perhaps not where you live . . .  NEF and other raw files are accepted  as-is.

If you want to perform whatever enhancement you wish, save the result of your editing as a JPEG and use the largest pixel dimension you wish. Send the JPEG file to the printer and specify the print size you want.

It doesn't have to be a jpeg, can be tiff. Whatever is required or recommended by the printer.

I assume you are aware that JPEG takes less space.  Be as it may,  let the OP decide.

If you want to continue editing where you left-off, save to your editor NATIVE FILE FORMAT.

Don't worry, your original NEF file will not be harm.

It won't harm in Lightroom, moreover you don't actually 'save' your edits in Lightroom, everything is saved automatically.

So what is your beef?

You may continue further editing by loading the NATIVE FILE.

This isn't really applicable to Lightroom.

So what?  Are you sure the OP is using LR?

If you want to keep the first edit version, simply use the VERSION feature of your editor.

Quarkcharmed
Quarkcharmed Senior Member • Posts: 1,340
Re: Depends on your preference!
2

BrownieVet wrote:

Quarkcharmed wrote:

BrownieVet wrote:

If you want the print to be as-is out of the camera, just send the NEF file and specify he print size you want.

I'd be hugely surprised if any printer accepts raw files. If they do, it'll probably be at an additional fee. I'd strongly suggest to not send the original raw files.

Perhaps not where you live . . . NEF and other raw files are accepted as-is.

I'd be curious to see a link to a print shop that accepts raw files.

If you want to perform whatever enhancement you wish, save the result of your editing as a JPEG and use the largest pixel dimension you wish. Send the JPEG file to the printer and specify the print size you want.

It doesn't have to be a jpeg, can be tiff. Whatever is required or recommended by the printer.

I assume you are aware that JPEG takes less space. Be as it may, let the OP decide.

Not sure how the file size matters here.

If you want to continue editing where you left-off, save to your editor NATIVE FILE FORMAT.

Don't worry, your original NEF file will not be harm.

It won't harm in Lightroom, moreover you don't actually 'save' your edits in Lightroom, everything is saved automatically.

So what is your beef?

'Saving files in native to editor file format' is basically meaningless recommendation to Lightroom users.

You may continue further editing by loading the NATIVE FILE.

This isn't really applicable to Lightroom.

So what? Are you sure the OP is using LR?

Yes I am.

If you want to keep the first edit version, simply use the VERSION feature of your editor.

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BrownieVet Senior Member • Posts: 3,817
Re: Depends on your preference!

Quarkcharmed wrote:

BrownieVet wrote:

Quarkcharmed wrote:

BrownieVet wrote:

If you want the print to be as-is out of the camera, just send the NEF file and specify he print size you want.

I'd be hugely surprised if any printer accepts raw files. If they do, it'll probably be at an additional fee. I'd strongly suggest to not send the original raw files.

Perhaps not where you live . . . NEF and other raw files are accepted as-is.

I'd be curious to see a link to a print shop that accepts raw files.

Do your own research.

If you want to perform whatever enhancement you wish, save the result of your editing as a JPEG and use the largest pixel dimension you wish. Send the JPEG file to the printer and specify the print size you want.

It doesn't have to be a jpeg, can be tiff. Whatever is required or recommended by the printer.

I assume you are aware that JPEG takes less space. Be as it may, let the OP decide.

Not sure how the file size matters here.

That is your problem

If you want to continue editing where you left-off, save to your editor NATIVE FILE FORMAT.

Don't worry, your original NEF file will not be harm.

It won't harm in Lightroom, moreover you don't actually 'save' your edits in Lightroom, everything is saved automatically.

So what is your beef?

'Saving files in native to editor file format' is basically meaningless recommendation to Lightroom users.

I'm not making recommendation to LR user.

You may continue further editing by loading the NATIVE FILE.

This isn't really applicable to Lightroom.

So what? Are you sure the OP is using LR?

Yes I am.

You are not the OP
Just for good measure,  I TAGGED you IGNORE.  GOOD RIDDANCE.

Quarkcharmed
Quarkcharmed Senior Member • Posts: 1,340
Re: Depends on your preference!

You are not the OP

That's very funny. The OP said he uses Lightroom in the opening post.

Just for good measure, I TAGGED you IGNORE. GOOD RIDDANCE.

Oh no...

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J A C S
J A C S Forum Pro • Posts: 18,831
Re: How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?

Whatever you do to resample it; their software will likely resample it again, even if a little. I suggest leave it like it is. I would sharpen it well because printing could soften the image a bit.

IMO, TIFF is a wasted of zeros and ones.

They allow you to submit it in a wider color space. If you have a wide gamut monitor to see what that does, you may want to do it. Also, they have printer profiles to preview the colors.

robert1955 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,829
Re: Depends on your preference!
3

BrownieVet wrote:

Quarkcharmed wrote:

BrownieVet wrote:

Quarkcharmed wrote:

BrownieVet wrote:

If you want the print to be as-is out of the camera, just send the NEF file and specify he print size you want.

I'd be hugely surprised if any printer accepts raw files. If they do, it'll probably be at an additional fee. I'd strongly suggest to not send the original raw files.

Perhaps not where you live . . . NEF and other raw files are accepted as-is.

I'd be curious to see a link to a print shop that accepts raw files.

Do your own research.

your claim, your research

If you want to perform whatever enhancement you wish, save the result of your editing as a JPEG and use the largest pixel dimension you wish. Send the JPEG file to the printer and specify the print size you want.

It doesn't have to be a jpeg, can be tiff. Whatever is required or recommended by the printer.

I assume you are aware that JPEG takes less space. Be as it may, let the OP decide.

Not sure how the file size matters here.

That is your problem

If you want to continue editing where you left-off, save to your editor NATIVE FILE FORMAT.

Don't worry, your original NEF file will not be harm.

It won't harm in Lightroom, moreover you don't actually 'save' your edits in Lightroom, everything is saved automatically.

So what is your beef?

'Saving files in native to editor file format' is basically meaningless recommendation to Lightroom users.

I'm not making recommendation to LR user.

You may continue further editing by loading the NATIVE FILE.

This isn't really applicable to Lightroom.

So what? Are you sure the OP is using LR?

Yes I am.

You are not the OP
Just for good measure, I TAGGED you IGNORE. GOOD RIDDANCE.

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Al D Contributing Member • Posts: 704
Re: How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?

J A C S wrote:

Whatever you do to resample it; their software will likely resample it again, even if a little. I suggest leave it like it is. I would sharpen it well because printing could soften the image a bit.

The reason for resizing is that, if done properly to the exact dimension it will print, you get to decide what is getting cropped out of the image, if anything, instead of leaving that decision to the printer.

IMO, TIFF is a wasted of zeros and ones.

Other than making for a smaller file size, how is a raw image converted to a lossy jpeg superior in any way to a raw image converted to tiff?

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David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 4,984
Re: How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?

The first thing you need to realise is that dpi and ppi are two totally different things.

My Epson printer has a native print resolution of either 360ppi or 720ppi, depending on print quality I set, but prints at 5760dpi.

Canon, HP and most other inkjet printers have a native print resolution of 300ppi.

PPI, not DPI, is set to size an image for printing.

To help you size your image for the paper size you want to print to, this is an example of what happens under the bonnet/hood when you submit a print to an inkjet printer.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say my camera outputs a 3000px x 1500px image.

Now, lets say I want a 12in x 6in print.

Lets say I choose 360ppi print quality on my printer - one of my printer's two native print resolutions - 360ppi or 720ppi.

In the printing app I set the resolution to 250ppi to give me a 12in x 6in print for the 3000px x 1500px image.

In this case the printer reports back to the print application that it wants an image at 360ppi since I chose 360ppi print quality.

So, for a 12in x 6in print it wants an image with size 4320px x 2160px --- (12x360)px x (6x360)px.

But the printing app sends the printer an image with only 3000px x 1500px.

The printer then scratches its head and says "Oops, I haven't got enough pixels in that file for a 12in x 6in print".

After submitting the print job in the print app and before the printer starts outputting the print, somewhere in the print pipeline the 3000px x 1500px image is resampled to 4320px x 2160px.

The printer then prints out onto paper the 4320px x 2160px resampled image.

The main argument you will see in forums like this is whether it is better to let the print pipeline resample images to the printer's native printer resolution or whether the user can do a better job resampling the image to the printer's native printer resolution prior to submitting the print.

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J A C S
J A C S Forum Pro • Posts: 18,831
Re: How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?

Al D wrote:

J A C S wrote:

Whatever you do to resample it; their software will likely resample it again, even if a little. I suggest leave it like it is. I would sharpen it well because printing could soften the image a bit.

The reason for resizing is that, if done properly to the exact dimension it will print, you get to decide what is getting cropped out of the image, if anything, instead of leaving that decision to the printer.

There is no "instead". The printer will do it anyway. You do not know what printer they are using, how much the printer crops (they all do a bit), etc.

IMO, TIFF is a waste of zeros and ones.

Other than making for a smaller file size, how is a raw image converted to a lossy jpeg superior in any way to a raw image converted to tiff?

Did I say it was superior?

Al D Contributing Member • Posts: 704
Re: How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?

J A C S wrote:

Al D wrote:

J A C S wrote:

Whatever you do to resample it; their software will likely resample it again, even if a little. I suggest leave it like it is. I would sharpen it well because printing could soften the image a bit.

The reason for resizing is that, if done properly to the exact dimension it will print, you get to decide what is getting cropped out of the image, if anything, instead of leaving that decision to the printer.

There is no "instead". The printer will do it anyway. You do not know what printer they are using, how much the printer crops (they all do a bit), etc.

You do know if you get the printer profile. Depending on the printing service they will print as uploaded if you request it. I know mine does, as well as my own printer which can print up to 17x22.

IMO, TIFF is a waste of zeros and ones.

Other than making for a smaller file size, how is a raw image converted to a lossy jpeg superior in any way to a raw image converted to tiff?

Did I say it was superior?

You said tiff was a waste, how is it a waste if it gives you better IQ?

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OP SergeSkor New Member • Posts: 24
Re: Depends on your preference!

BrownieVet wrote:

If you want the print to be as-is out of the camera, just send the NEF file and specify he print size you want.

Bad idea - they do not accept raw files, as far as many (all?) other printing facilities.
And, even if accepted, in this case I will lose all my custom processing of raw file...

If you want to perform whatever enhancement you wish, save the result of your editing as a JPEG and use the largest pixel dimension you wish. Send the JPEG file to the printer and specify the print size you want.

Also does not seem to be good idea to use jpg for processing.

OP SergeSkor New Member • Posts: 24
Re: Depends on your preference!

You may continue further editing by loading the NATIVE FILE.

This isn't really applicable to Lightroom.

So what? Are you sure the OP is using LR?

Yes I am.

You are not the OP
Just for good measure, I TAGGED you IGNORE. GOOD RIDDANCE.

Do not fight, I am OP, and I have mentioned in original post I am using LR

OP SergeSkor New Member • Posts: 24
Re: How properly prepare raw-files for big format printing?

David1961 wrote:

The first thing you need to realise is that dpi and ppi are two totally different things.
<...>

The main argument you will see in forums like this is whether it is better to let the print pipeline resample images to the printer's native printer resolution or whether the user can do a better job resampling the image to the printer's native printer resolution prior to submitting the print.

Thank you for good explanations!

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