ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

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Maximilian59 Forum Member • Posts: 77
ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window
9

In the family we have a lot of different printers and I own some just for fun. For selling prints I use a Pro-1000, but I am interested how good dye inks are. Half a year ago I made a six month test with mainly Epson inks and papers. Now I started with Canon inks and papers. In addition I bought a logger to measure the daily doses of light on the test samples, temperatures and humidity. The test samples are placed on foam boards and hang inside of a east facing window with a distance of about 2 cm.

Samples were printed with printer manages colours from Lightroom with 300 PPI or 360 PPI for Epson.

The Pro-1000 samples are about two years old and were in dark storage in a archival box, but no controlled environment.

All samples have been measured with a i1Pro2 just before putting them on the window.

After two weeks I measured the colours with a i1Pro2 and calculated DeltaE2000. Unfortunately I could only measure the Lux for three days, two sunny and one rainy days. A sunny day calculated to 0,14 Megaluxhours. There were 12 sunny days and two rainy days, so might have been about two Megaluxhours for this period. On a sunny day the temperatures goes up about 40°C and down to 18°C in the night. The humidity is between 18% at highest temperatures and 42% in the night.

This is no long period now, but first ink/paper combinations start with severe fading.

In the picture you can see first results. To exaggerate early results I made a sum of 2 times the average + one time worst 10%.

The second pictures shows the test pattern.

The third a photo taken from outside with the Epson samples.

Now we have here at least one week rainy days, therefore I will do the next measurement in two weeks.

Hope you enjoy this and the coming little reports.

Cheers,

Maximilian

List of my test samples

Pattern of a test sample (60 fields)

Samples on my east facing window in the second floor.

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NAwlins Contrarian Veteran Member • Posts: 6,598
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

Half a year ago I made a six month test with mainly Epson inks and papers. Now I started with Canon inks and papers. In addition I bought a logger to measure the daily doses of light on the test samples, temperatures and humidity. The test samples are placed on foam boards and hang inside of a east facing window with a distance of about 2 cm.

Samples were printed with printer manages colours from Lightroom with 300 PPI or 360 PPI for Epson.

The Pro-1000 samples are about two years old and were in dark storage in a archival box, but no controlled environment.

All samples have been measured with a i1Pro2 just before putting them on the window.

After two weeks I measured the colours with a i1Pro2 and calculated DeltaE2000. Unfortunately I could only measure the Lux for three days, two sunny and one rainy days. A sunny day calculated to 0,14 Megaluxhours. There were 12 sunny days and two rainy days, so might have been about two Megaluxhours for this period. On a sunny day the temperatures goes up about 40°C and down to 18°C in the night. The humidity is between 18% at highest temperatures and 42% in the night.

This is no long period now, but first ink/paper combinations start with severe fading.

In the picture you can see first results. To exaggerate early results I made a sum of 2 times the average + one time worst 10%.

Now we have here at least one week rainy days, therefore I will do the next measurement in two weeks.

List of my test samples

Thank you. This is interesting. But please help me understand:

(1) This is probably caused by my not knowing much German or the inks on the German market, but you did not mention any third-party ink. E.g., is LogicSeek in the last line a third-party ink? What about Tonerdumping or Office World? And I see many that I think are Canon ChromaLife 100+ ink,* but I don't see any that are the older ChromaLife 100 (not +) ink; which are those?

(2) Did you make any measurements to determine whether samples near the top of the window got the same amount of light as samples near the bottom of the window?

(3) Did you perform a similar test with some papers not exposed in the window, to see what delta E they showed, either because of ink fade from something other than light exposure, or from measurement error?

I look forward to reading more about your tests. Thanks!

*I think that the European-market Canon CLI-551, CLI-571, and CLI-581 are the same as the North American market Canon CLI-251, CLI-271, and CLI-281, which are ChromaLife 100+ ink for all-in-one models.

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BWRobins Junior Member • Posts: 43
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

Carts for the TS8150 are CLI-581 and Canon Europe just says it's ChromaLife100. A number of Canon's multifunction machines in the US are also just ChromaLife100 still. I don't believe any of them are particularly recent releases other than the new tank photo printer.

The performance of the XP-4100 is interesting since Epson America says it's "Claria". Epson Europe just calls it "603 ink series" and the ink for the XP-5100 is "502 ink series".

I wonder if the ink for those machines is more closely related to the EcoTank 101/502 ink than the stuff in older machines running non-premium Claria.

OP Maximilian59 Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window
2

(1) CLI-550 and CLI-42 are ChromaLife 100+. The MX925 is the MX922.

CLI-570 and CLI-580 are ChromaLife100. All other inks are third party, except Epson and Lucia Pro off course. The Octopus Fluids are German refill inks.

(2) The boards are changed and turned every week. This should be good enough for my testing.

(3) I have a copy of the samples in dark storage. I can measure them at the end of the test. They are not on a board and it is a lot of work to perform to do it more often.

The Sihl glossy 280 is a affordable cast coated paper, which is often used here in Germany and in some European countries. It performs well with Epson inks. The SW (Schwarzwaldmühle) Edelweiß is a cheap (0,10€ per A4) matte paper, which is so high OBA loaded, that it nearly lights by itself. I want to see, how it performs with good pigmented inks.

The Claria ink performed till now worse than I expected with the experience with my older tests. Claria is not Claria: There is Claria Home, Claria Premium and Claria HD and now the “new” one for the ET-88xx. https://www.epson.eu/consumables/claria-ink

Hope this helped to understand more.

Cheers,

Maximilian

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mikling Regular Member • Posts: 266
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

The most significant advance for Chromalife 100+ ( Plus) is greater resistance to OZONE effects. How are you testing or even controlling this variable which is a very significant contributor to fading in the real world?

OZONE or the aspects of gas attack?

NAwlins Contrarian Veteran Member • Posts: 6,598
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

Carts for the TS8150 are CLI-581 and Canon Europe just says it's ChromaLife100. A number of Canon's multifunction machines in the US are also just ChromaLife100 still. I don't believe any of them are particularly recent releases other than the new tank photo printer.

This is an interesting and potentially important point: Canon may brand some cartridge ink that is in fact ChromaLife 100+ (i.e., much-improved black ink and maybe improved yellow) as simply ChromaLife 100. AFAIK, all Canon printers introduced since late 2009 that use dye ink in cartridges are in fact ChromaLife 100+, not ChromaLife 100.

When Canon introduced the G620 / G650 and called the ink simply ChromaLife 100, there was some hope that it was in fact ChromaLife 100+. However, Canon itself on a current webpage lists both ChromaLife 100 and ChromaLife 100+ ink, and says the ChromaLife 100+ ink lasts--in albums--three times as long as ChromaLife 100 ink.

So Canon has made a mess of branding and reasonably informing consumers!

The performance of the XP-4100 is interesting since Epson America says it's "Claria". Epson Europe just calls it "603 ink series" and the ink for the XP-5100 is "502 ink series".

So maybe Epson is also guilty of confusing the consumers.

I wonder if the ink for those machines is more closely related to the EcoTank 101/502 ink than the stuff in older machines running non-premium Claria.

I thought--maybe wrongly?--that in Europe Epson called the ink for six-color printers Claria HD, but ink for four-color printers simply Claria, but the CMKY inks were in fact the same, with the HD setting adding typically light cyan and light magenta, but occasionally gray and red. Maybe you have better information?

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NAwlins Contrarian Veteran Member • Posts: 6,598
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

(1) CLI-550 and CLI-42 are ChromaLife 100+. The MX925 is the MX922.

CLI-570 and CLI-580 are ChromaLife100. All other inks are third party, except Epson and Lucia Pro off course. The Octopus Fluids are German refill inks.

(2) The boards are changed and turned every week. This should be good enough for my testing.

(3) I have a copy of the samples in dark storage. I can measure them at the end of the test. They are not on a board and it is a lot of work to perform to do it more often.

The Sihl glossy 280 is a affordable cast coated paper, which is often used here in Germany and in some European countries. It performs well with Epson inks. The SW (Schwarzwaldmühle) Edelweiß is a cheap (0,10€ per A4) matte paper, which is so high OBA loaded, that it nearly lights by itself. I want to see, how it performs with good pigmented inks.

The Claria ink performed till now worse than I expected with the experience with my older tests. Claria is not Claria: There is Claria Home, Claria Premium and Claria HD and now the “new” one for the ET-88xx. https://www.epson.eu/consumables/claria-ink

Hope this helped to understand more.

Thanks for the update. But see my other post about Canon confusing us with its use and maybe misuse of ChromaLife 100+ and ChromaLife 100!

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Gesture Veteran Member • Posts: 9,260
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/pgi-250-cli-251-5-color-value-pack

Yes. Ink for these consumer models going back to MG printers is Chromolife100.

OP Maximilian59 Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window
4

mikling wrote:

The most significant advance for Chromalife 100+ ( Plus) is greater resistance to OZONE effects. How are you testing or even controlling this variable which is a very significant contributor to fading in the real world?

OZONE or the aspects of gas attack?

I can’t measure these gases because I have no device for it and they’re too expensive. It doesn’t matter to me, because it’s a comparison of tested samples with mostly same conditions over the test period. I think this is enough for a private testing. It is complicated enough to get access to all the printers, buy the inks, the papers, printing, measuring and preparing for testing.

There would be more scientific tests, if more people support Mark at Aardenburg.

Cheers,

Maximilian

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OP Maximilian59 Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

Gesture wrote:

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/pgi-250-cli-251-5-color-value-pack

Yes. Ink for these consumer models going back to MG printers is Chromolife100.

See pictures.

Cli-251 are ChromaLife100+

Cli-551 are ChromaLife100+ written on the side of the package

Cli-571 are ChromaLife100

Cli-581 are ChromaLife100

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Gesture Veteran Member • Posts: 9,260
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

Or the ink manufacturers.

Gesture Veteran Member • Posts: 9,260
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

Thanks for the correction. Look forward to your real world FOR YOU study.

I was reading this from the US CLI-251 page:

"Combined with Genuine Canon photo paper this ink protects your photos from fading for longer, thanks to the ChromaLife100 System."

I'm happy with 3rd party Precision Colors ink for all my printers, both Epson pigment and Canon dye printers, (never would spend $16 for a 16ml dye ink cartridge) but this thread as others demonstrates the silliness of the OEMs. Different grades of dye ink like fuel octanes at the gas pump, except in this case there are no real qualifiers.

BWRobins Junior Member • Posts: 43
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

NAwlins Contrarian wrote:

Carts for the TS8150 are CLI-581 and Canon Europe just says it's ChromaLife100. A number of Canon's multifunction machines in the US are also just ChromaLife100 still. I don't believe any of them are particularly recent releases other than the new tank photo printer.

This is an interesting and potentially important point: Canon may brand some cartridge ink that is in fact ChromaLife 100+ (i.e., much-improved black ink and maybe improved yellow) as simply ChromaLife 100. AFAIK, all Canon printers introduced since late 2009 that use dye ink in cartridges are in fact ChromaLife 100+, not ChromaLife 100.

When Canon introduced the G620 / G650 and called the ink simply ChromaLife 100, there was some hope that it was in fact ChromaLife 100+. However, Canon itself on a current webpage lists both ChromaLife 100 and ChromaLife 100+ ink, and says the ChromaLife 100+ ink lasts--in albums--three times as long as ChromaLife 100 ink.

So Canon has made a mess of branding and reasonably informing consumers!

The performance of the XP-4100 is interesting since Epson America says it's "Claria". Epson Europe just calls it "603 ink series" and the ink for the XP-5100 is "502 ink series".

So maybe Epson is also guilty of confusing the consumers.

I wonder if the ink for those machines is more closely related to the EcoTank 101/502 ink than the stuff in older machines running non-premium Claria.

I thought--maybe wrongly?--that in Europe Epson called the ink for six-color printers Claria HD, but ink for four-color printers simply Claria, but the CMKY inks were in fact the same, with the HD setting adding typically light cyan and light magenta, but occasionally gray and red. Maybe you have better information?

My understanding of it used to be

Claria Home = 4 dye inks CMYK (this now appears to be no longer true)

Claria Premium = 4 dye inks CMYK + pigment black for documents

Claria Photo HD = 6 dye inks CMKY + either R+GY or LM+LC

I suspect shenanigans with the 4 color Claria branding in America for the low cost machines that look like tankless EcoTanks.

OP Maximilian59 Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

Update of my measurements.

First I have to apologise, because the test sample 2734 is not with Canon Lucia Pro inks, but with HP303 inks from a HP Envy Photo 6230. I took the wrong stripe. Fortunately on every test sample is printed which printer, inks and paper have been used.

The table shows results measured last Friday night (2021-05-14).a

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OP Maximilian59 Forum Member • Posts: 77
ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+, update 25. May 2021

Results after 5,4 "MLH"

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OP Maximilian59 Forum Member • Posts: 77
Update 20. June 2021 ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window
2

Latest results from 18. June 2021 after 10,6 "Megaluxhours"

To the moment Canon ChromaLife100+, Epson Claria Premium and Epson Claria HD have about the same performance. Also Chromalife Inks are here best with Canon Papers. A good paper in point of fading resistance is the HP Everyday Glossy paper. The two printers which have no photo black are on the end of the OEM inks, but still in front of all tested third party inks. Octopus Fluids is a bottled ink for refill with a weak black. But overall it is a good and very cheap alternativ if you don't look for very long lasting pints. With no direct sun and behind glass, I think you will not see big differences even after years. With a good profile you get results very near to the OEM inks. I think, that's really ok for somebody how has fun with photo printing and does not want to spend a lot of money. It is 0,05 Euro per ml in 250ml bottles. That is roundabout what you need for a A4 print. Even if you take a better paper for let's 0,60 Euro like a SG-201 Canon semigloss photopaper, it is still much cheaper than any discounter print. And the fun of printing stays with you.

Whether these inks are as good in albums is a different point. Album papers may have a lot of acids and furnitures will outgas some dangerous gases. Maybe Canon and Epson do also accelrated chemical tests with their dyes.

With a little bit more money you can now use the bottled Canon dye inks in such a 4-colour printer. Now there is nothing left not to start printing at home.

The overview shows the arrangement of the test samples on the two boards. The two screen shots show clearly how a weak ink looks like after a few weeks in the sun.

Looking forward to 15 MLH.

Cheers,
Maximilian

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al404
al404 Regular Member • Posts: 394
Re: Update 20. June 2021 ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

Just got a Canon G650 and is really a good and cheap printer for photo

I also have a PRO 300 but for testing before going on PRO 300 and for more budget prints for friends and family I will use the G650

In are ChromaLife100 and I was doing a little research on how much they old up exposed in side a house in a frame

Sorry but I'm not sure how to read / understand your testing.

Does the ink fade really fast?

OP Maximilian59 Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: Update 20. June 2021 ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window
1

No, ChromaLife100 inks don't fade fast. You won't have any problems for years framed in-house. I will update my tables in a view days and you will see they are still not bad. If they are not much influenced by the harsh conditions on the window, they will last very very long under the conditions you have in-house. Just use Canon Papers and don't look for cheap other papers. After 15 Megaluxhaours under my test there is about no difference between ChromaLife 100 and 100+. Marc shows test with very good results for the 100+ and my comparing test show up to now no real difference.

Cheers,

Maximilian

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al404
al404 Regular Member • Posts: 394
Re: Update 20. June 2021 ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window

Actually I prefer Hahnemuhle, Canson and I'm looking into Ilford photographic paper

I guess they are OK

with G650 I'm still looking t the best "budget" option but still among them

OP Maximilian59 Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: Update 20. June 2021 ChromaLife100 vs ChromaLife100+ fading test on window
1

For a "budget" paper I would use the Canon PP-201 or SG-201. If you make your own profiles there will sure be more options within the range of RC-papers.

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