Advice on how to achieve this look?

Specifically the refractions (?) So I bought a bunch of hanging crystals from amazon, probably like 20 of them. And they work pretty well in the sun. But in the studio, with a strobe firing, they get lost completely. I know they work best in shadows. But this image clearly has them in both shadows and highlight? Any idea what they're doing here? You can clearly see in the eye that there's something bright in there. They could be outside with extra light perhaps? Just wondering if anyone had any tips for balancing all of this. Thanks!

ainsoph wrote:

Specifically the refractions (?) So I bought a bunch of hanging crystals from amazon, probably like 20 of them. And they work pretty well in the sun. But in the studio, with a strobe firing, they get lost completely. I know they work best in shadows. But this image clearly has them in both shadows and highlight? Any idea what they're doing here? You can clearly see in the eye that there's something bright in there. They could be outside with extra light perhaps? Just wondering if anyone had any tips for balancing all of this

Strobe in a kaleidoscope? Well, not really....

I think the key is maintaining contrast -- so I think you'd want to have the crystals placed such that nearly all the strobe light gets channeled through them. I'm guessing, but I'd be thinking in terms of maybe even using a condenser lens with a layer of crystals over it.

Of course, it also wouldn't be that hard to fake in post....

I got a small Christmas ball hollow but made of all round crystals, if hit with the light source at a certain angle, it projects rainbows reflected spots (very much what Newton did with a crystal) but in a pattern that follows the design of the ball (ball found in Pier Import store). Very much like those balls hanging on a disco dance ceiling, only this one is made of round crystals instead of tiny mirror like pieces. If these reflections are projected into a big white sheet, photograph it, get the photo onto transparent finish in pp, the result paste it on top of your photo in pp. Just an idea, very much like making cookies for the first time.

ProfHankD wrote:

ainsoph wrote:

Specifically the refractions (?) So I bought a bunch of hanging crystals from amazon, probably like 20 of them. And they work pretty well in the sun. But in the studio, with a strobe firing, they get lost completely. I know they work best in shadows. But this image clearly has them in both shadows and highlight? Any idea what they're doing here? You can clearly see in the eye that there's something bright in there. They could be outside with extra light perhaps? Just wondering if anyone had any tips for balancing all of this

Strobe in a kaleidoscope? Well, not really....

I think the key is maintaining contrast -- so I think you'd want to have the crystals placed such that nearly all the strobe light gets channeled through them. I'm guessing, but I'd be thinking in terms of maybe even using a condenser lens with a layer of crystals over it.

Of course, it also wouldn't be that hard to fake in post....

Appreciate it! I'm VERY much into trying to do things in camera, so I'd really like to find a practical solution. I'm just wondering if there's actually a way, or if I'm trying to defy physics and don't even know it?

Not sure what you mean by condenser lens? If it helps, I'm using a bunch of Profoto B1s, and have pretty much every modifier I should need. Would a super tight grid or reflector be similar? Because I feell ike I tried shooting through the crystals onto a model, and the refractions just get blown out.

Very much appreciate the response! I'm completely determined to make this work lol

ainsoph wrote:

ProfHankD wrote:

ainsoph wrote:

Specifically the refractions (?) So I bought a bunch of hanging crystals from amazon, probably like 20 of them. And they work pretty well in the sun. But in the studio, with a strobe firing, they get lost completely. I know they work best in shadows. But this image clearly has them in both shadows and highlight? Any idea what they're doing here? You can clearly see in the eye that there's something bright in there. They could be outside with extra light perhaps? Just wondering if anyone had any tips for balancing all of this

Strobe in a kaleidoscope? Well, not really....

I think the key is maintaining contrast -- so I think you'd want to have the crystals placed such that nearly all the strobe light gets channeled through them. I'm guessing, but I'd be thinking in terms of maybe even using a condenser lens with a layer of crystals over it.

Of course, it also wouldn't be that hard to fake in post....

Appreciate it! I'm VERY much into trying to do things in camera, so I'd really like to find a practical solution. I'm just wondering if there's actually a way, or if I'm trying to defy physics and don't even know it?

Not sure what you mean by condenser lens? If it helps, I'm using a bunch of Profoto B1s, and have pretty much every modifier I should need. Would a super tight grid or reflector be similar? Because I feell ike I tried shooting through the crystals onto a model, and the refractions just get blown out.

To maintain contrast, you need to make the strobe light only go through the crystals, with as little leakage as possible.

I'd have to test it, but my thought was along the lines of how my 23CII enlarger has a large condenser lens used to convert the diffuse light from the dichro head's mixing chamber into a virtual point light source. (It makes the prints crisper and gives higher contrast.) I'm thinking that using something like that to focus a strobe light on a bunch of crystals should give you maximum contrast. You do have to be a little careful about putting things in front of a strobe, because the energy output can be high enough to melt stuff (very short burst releasing a lot of energy -- you can actually get a minor burn just holding your finger over the flash of some compact cameras). Incidentally, it might even work better if the strobe lights the crystals and then a lens is used to project that light pattern on your model?

BTW, remember light disperses by an inverse square law -- you want this rig pretty close to your model to get maximum brightness.

Very much appreciate the response! I'm completely determined to make this work lol

It's not even an effect I particularly like, but it's an interesting problem to solve.

Make sure you let us know how it works out....

BBbuilder467 wrote:

Have you ever used cookies or modified inserts with flash? You can create all sorts of special effects, but they can be difficult to control.

I have! I started getting really into them last year, and hadn't actually thought of using those I wonder if I could combine the two...

ProfHankD wrote:

ainsoph wrote:

ProfHankD wrote:

ainsoph wrote:

Specifically the refractions (?) So I bought a bunch of hanging crystals from amazon, probably like 20 of them. And they work pretty well in the sun. But in the studio, with a strobe firing, they get lost completely. I know they work best in shadows. But this image clearly has them in both shadows and highlight? Any idea what they're doing here? You can clearly see in the eye that there's something bright in there. They could be outside with extra light perhaps? Just wondering if anyone had any tips for balancing all of this

Strobe in a kaleidoscope? Well, not really....

I think the key is maintaining contrast -- so I think you'd want to have the crystals placed such that nearly all the strobe light gets channeled through them. I'm guessing, but I'd be thinking in terms of maybe even using a condenser lens with a layer of crystals over it.

Of course, it also wouldn't be that hard to fake in post....

Appreciate it! I'm VERY much into trying to do things in camera, so I'd really like to find a practical solution. I'm just wondering if there's actually a way, or if I'm trying to defy physics and don't even know it?

Not sure what you mean by condenser lens? If it helps, I'm using a bunch of Profoto B1s, and have pretty much every modifier I should need. Would a super tight grid or reflector be similar? Because I feell ike I tried shooting through the crystals onto a model, and the refractions just get blown out.

To maintain contrast, you need to make the strobe light only go through the crystals, with as little leakage as possible.

I'd have to test it, but my thought was along the lines of how my 23CII enlarger has a large condenser lens used to convert the diffuse light from the dichro head's mixing chamber into a virtual point light source. (It makes the prints crisper and gives higher contrast.) I'm thinking that using something like that to focus a strobe light on a bunch of crystals should give you maximum contrast. You do have to be a little careful about putting things in front of a strobe, because the energy output can be high enough to melt stuff (very short burst releasing a lot of energy -- you can actually get a minor burn just holding your finger over the flash of some compact cameras). Incidentally, it might even work better if the strobe lights the crystals and then a lens is used to project that light pattern on your model?

BTW, remember light disperses by an inverse square law -- you want this rig pretty close to your model to get maximum brightness.

Very much appreciate the response! I'm completely determined to make this work lol

It's not even an effect I particularly like, but it's an interesting problem to solve.

Make sure you let us know how it works out....

I agree actually, I more enjoy the act of figuring it out, then I get bored with it pretty quickly. But right now it's exciting and something I really want to do.

And I was recently in someone's bridal warehouse, where they had an enormous chandelier that gave off quite a bit of refraction, which kind of supports your point, that the light has to be going right through the crystals from a short distance. I'll try that this weekend. Maybe some sort of crystal snoot lol

And yeah, I'm pretty well acquainted with gobos or cookies or whatever. Now i'm wondering if the light shooting through should be more of a spotlight type of light? My brain says it works really well in the sun though...which I guess IS a hard light source technically.

Not sure if that's the same thing your 23CII sentence is saying? If it is, I get it lol. Just familiar with too many different types of hardware outside of what I use.

I will for sure! You're awesome!

ainsoph wrote:

And I was recently in someone's bridal warehouse, where they had an enormous chandelier that gave off quite a bit of refraction, which kind of supports your point, that the light has to be going right through the crystals from a short distance. I'll try that this weekend. Maybe some sort of crystal snoot lol

Even only  one multy faceted crystal pendant (like those pending from the lamp, round or lacrima (tear)  shape should do.  And yes, the most important thing is the light source angulation towards the crystal.

my guess is ....loads of crystals in a variety of forms and a optical spot attachment firing onto the crystals but the light beam does not hit the model at all. just the reflected light of the crystals do hit the face.

could also be a shot done in very bright sun lighht with a reflector to lift shadows under chin.

the camera angle sort of tells be that the crystals are very close to the face, approx same hight as face and the camera need to be under to capture the reflections .