Some vertical black smudges.

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,761
Re: Some vertical black smudges.

Barry Twycross wrote:

tassienick wrote:

Tom Axford wrote:

British Jonathan wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

The only reliable way is to check it with film. The first thing to establish is at what shutter speeds it acts up. Do you know what speeds were used for every shot you've taken so far?

I wish I did. Unless film has some exposure data imprinting that I'm unaware of.

If you are serious about film photography, get yourself a small notebook to carry in your camera bag or pocket and note down the basic details of every shot you take. I always did that when I was using film regularly. It is invaluable when it comes to diagnosing problems. It is also useful to have notes on where and when shots were taken.

Worth pointing out that there’s a lot of good apps available now to record shooting details (assuming you usually carry your phone)

Or take a picture of the camera (with your smartphone) with the settings visible, with the scene you're taking a photo of in the background. Gets you settings, date/time, and location, with one click.

There are a few film cameras that record the shooting data on the film between the frames - Nikon F4 with the MF23 back, Nikon F5 with the MF28 back, the Nikon F6 and the F80s.  The F5, F100 and F6 also record more information in camera but you need almost unobtainable hardware to get it out.

Barry Twycross Veteran Member • Posts: 4,621
Re: Some vertical black smudges.

Overrank wrote:

Barry Twycross wrote:

tassienick wrote:

Tom Axford wrote:

British Jonathan wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

The only reliable way is to check it with film. The first thing to establish is at what shutter speeds it acts up. Do you know what speeds were used for every shot you've taken so far?

I wish I did. Unless film has some exposure data imprinting that I'm unaware of.

If you are serious about film photography, get yourself a small notebook to carry in your camera bag or pocket and note down the basic details of every shot you take. I always did that when I was using film regularly. It is invaluable when it comes to diagnosing problems. It is also useful to have notes on where and when shots were taken.

Worth pointing out that there’s a lot of good apps available now to record shooting details (assuming you usually carry your phone)

Or take a picture of the camera (with your smartphone) with the settings visible, with the scene you're taking a photo of in the background. Gets you settings, date/time, and location, with one click.

There are a few film cameras that record the shooting data on the film between the frames - Nikon F4 with the MF23 back, Nikon F5 with the MF28 back, the Nikon F6 and the F80s. The F5, F100 and F6 also record more information in camera but you need almost unobtainable hardware to get it out.

I have a Minolta Multi-function back from when I was completing my set of Minolta MF equipment, I never actually used it. That wasn't smart enough to record exposure information, that would have been useful. But it would record a date or serial number.

 Barry Twycross's gear list:Barry Twycross's gear list
Panasonic GX850 Fujifilm GFX 50R Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS Leica Nocticron 42.5mm Fujifilm GF 110mm F2 +9 more
Autonerd Senior Member • Posts: 2,155
Re: Some vertical black smudges.
1

British Jonathan wrote:

Okay so having done further digging, one of my 58 1.4s has sticky aperture blades that don't close as far or as quickly as they ought to. Could that be it?

I don't think so. An aperture that moves slowly will affect the whole image, not part of it.

My guess is this is either a shutter issue (second curtain hanging up, which I have seen on another older Minola SLR) or *possibly* a processing issue. What does the edge writing on the film look like below the black areas? Is the whole film (sprockets and all) clear or is there a proper border around the pics, edge writing intact, and the light (negative) areas only within the frame of the picture?

Aaron

-- hide signature --
mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 59,917
Re: Some vertical black smudges.

Overrank wrote:

British Jonathan wrote:

Okay. My suspect lens is on the A7iii here, my good copy of the same lens is loose. Both are stopped down to f/16, which is clearly not the same between them. I hope this is the problem because that's nice and easy to solve

I don’t think that would cause the banding. Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal-plane_shutter#Two-curtain_shutters

Its possible that there is some timing issue between the two shutter curtains. Do you get the same issue with shots with openings longer than 1/30s (say) and less than (1/30s) ?

If it were a problem with the shutter at the focal plane why are black smudge edges fuzzy  and not distinct lines?

 mamallama's gear list:mamallama's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 +1 more
Tom Axford Veteran Member • Posts: 8,265
Re: Some vertical black smudges.
1

mamallama wrote:

If it were a problem with the shutter at the focal plane why are black smudge edges fuzzy and not distinct lines?

Because the shutter is moving, not stationary.

Many years ago, I had a film camera with a sticky shutter that showed similar fuzzy dark bands along one edge of the frame. The shutter curtains were not moving in synchronisation.

mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 59,917
Re: Some vertical black smudges.

Tom Axford wrote:

mamallama wrote:

If it were a problem with the shutter at the focal plane why are black smudge edges fuzzy and not distinct lines?

Because the shutter is moving, not stationary.

I know but the edges of the focal plane shutter are not fuzzy or curved.

Many years ago, I had a film camera with a sticky shutter that showed similar fuzzy dark bands along one edge of the frame. The shutter curtains were not moving in synchronisation.

In my days of flash bulbs and a Leica focal plane shutter you had to use a FP class flash bulb which had a slow burn time. But if your shutter is off the shadow of the shutter will be a straight well defined line. It is a straight line moving linearly at the focal plane.

 mamallama's gear list:mamallama's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 +1 more
jaeae Regular Member • Posts: 257
Re: Some vertical black smudges.
2

mamallama wrote:

Tom Axford wrote:

mamallama wrote:

If it were a problem with the shutter at the focal plane why are black smudge edges fuzzy and not distinct lines?

Because the shutter is moving, not stationary.

I know but the edges of the focal plane shutter are not fuzzy or curved.

Many years ago, I had a film camera with a sticky shutter that showed similar fuzzy dark bands along one edge of the frame. The shutter curtains were not moving in synchronisation.

In my days of flash bulbs and a Leica focal plane shutter you had to use a FP class flash bulb which had a slow burn time. But if your shutter is off the shadow of the shutter will be a straight well defined line. It is a straight line moving linearly at the focal plane.

Focal plane shutter isn't touching the film, it's a bit further away and definitely gets a blurred edge. And it's moving also.

Cloth shutters have cloth strings on rollers and they can stick so that the curtain edge gets crooked, because the other side/string sticks and other doesn't. 100% sure this is a issue of erratically moving shutter curtains.

If a lens aperture malfunctions, it always impacts whole picture

Autonerd Senior Member • Posts: 2,155
Re: Some vertical black smudges.
2

mamallama wrote:

I know but the edges of the focal plane shutter are not fuzzy or curved.

Right, but their movement is erratic. Think of dodging and burning in the darkroom: If you keep your mask moving, you get soft edges.

I'm guessing that if this is a shutter problem, the lead curtain is slowing down and stopping, which is consistent with behavior I've seen in at least one other Minolta shutter (though on that camera it was the trailing curtain).

Aaron

-- hide signature --
mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 59,917
Re: Some vertical black smudges.
2

jaeae wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Tom Axford wrote:

mamallama wrote:

If it were a problem with the shutter at the focal plane why are black smudge edges fuzzy and not distinct lines?

Because the shutter is moving, not stationary.

I know but the edges of the focal plane shutter are not fuzzy or curved.

Many years ago, I had a film camera with a sticky shutter that showed similar fuzzy dark bands along one edge of the frame. The shutter curtains were not moving in synchronisation.

In my days of flash bulbs and a Leica focal plane shutter you had to use a FP class flash bulb which had a slow burn time. But if your shutter is off the shadow of the shutter will be a straight well defined line. It is a straight line moving linearly at the focal plane.

Focal plane shutter isn't touching the film, it's a bit further away and definitely gets a blurred edge. And it's moving also.

Cloth shutters have cloth strings on rollers and they can stick so that the curtain edge gets crooked, because the other side/string sticks and other doesn't. 100% sure this is a issue of erratically moving shutter curtains.

Then the shutters are seriously damaged and not just erratically moving. The black masks are curved and irregular and fuzzy with varying transparency edges. A seriously damaged shutter curtain should be easy to see.

If a lens aperture malfunctions, it always impacts whole picture

 mamallama's gear list:mamallama's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 +1 more
Bob Janes
Bob Janes Veteran Member • Posts: 4,508
Re: Some vertical black smudges.
1

British Jonathan wrote:

Just got two rolls back, and they both have this intermittent black area on the side of *some* of the images. Some of the landscape orientation images have it, and none of the portrait orientation images have it. Any ideas? I'm using a Minolta SRT SC ii. Previous three rolls did not have this issue.

As others have alluded to, it is shutter capping. The second curtain is catching up with the first curtain. It should only affect shots over 1/125, but is likely worse the faster speed you use.

-- hide signature --

Save a life, become a stem-cell donor.
Hello to Jason Isaacs!
https://bobjanes.smugmug.com/PoTB/
Please respect a BY-NC-ND cc licence on all my public internet images

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads