R3 spec. and price

R3 spec and price speculation

30fps Stacked BSI CMOS Sensor, with much improved AF and 'Eye input AF' that's what we know.

"speculations"

- 20fps mechanical (it's inside the 1DXIII, no need to reinvent the wheel)

- 45MP (A1 and Z9 are 50MP and R5 is 45MP, it's plenty, but anything less is not enough)

- 8k with unlimited recording time (a "little" improvement over the R5, similar to A1 and Z9)

- 4999$ (Canon is going to war ... to win the mirrorless war)

We know it's an R3 and it's going to be priced between the R5 and 1DX III (and the future R1) could be anything between 4499$ to 6999$, but 4999$ could be just perfect for the current mirroless market.

I think 4999$ should be accurate for the current market, Canon could compete against A9II and A1 with just one camera... and easily win in the price/performance ratio with both, obviously also Nikon Z9 will be in serious trouble with such an aggressive pricing, overall Canon has space for a much more expensive camera with the future R1.

The 1DXIII price should be an indication, it's "expensive" because it's unique, no one else makes anymore DSLR with such high performance, that price point will be surpassed by the future R1, till then Canon should have mirrorless cameras below 1DXIII price.

The FF mirrorless war just started and Canon could win also the price race with a "jolly" camera like the R3 that could play the role of a flagship camera at a lower price than other manufacturers, because the true Canon flagship mirrorless, the R1, will come later.

We can already see the R6 compete very well against the A9 and A9II, very similar performance at a much lower price point, just missing the BSI stacked sensor.

Same story with the R5 , no Staked sensor, still competes well even against the new A1 and with an enormous price difference.

R3 with BSI staked sensor, will close the gap with Sony, but Canon by choosing to use an R3 instead of an R1 to fight this battle seems to suggest will still play the game having a somewhat better camera at a lower price point.

The 4999$ price could also push most oh the DSLR pro using the 1DXIII to move on, at a lower price they could have a better camera with no compromise except the (once)"loved" optical viewfinder, Canon will make more money with the RF glass once the migration is complete, at that point many will want more and the R1 will be ready to collect even more pro customers.

bernie r wrote:

$4999? Wishful thinking, highly doubt it'll be $1500 cheaper than the previous 1DX III...

If it is "just" an R5 on steroids with a grip, 4999$ or a little bit more is not that strange, it should be cheaper than the 1DXIII anyway.

P.S. If the specification are very different from my speculation ,the price could be anything between 4499$ to 6999$, as I already said.

bernie r wrote:

$4999? Wishful thinking, highly doubt it'll be $1500 cheaper than the previous 1DX III...

I think it's a reasonable price they more than make up the dollars with all the new lenses you will need for it. There also needs to be some room for the R1 price without making it ridiculous.

Necip wrote:

bernie r wrote:

$4999? Wishful thinking, highly doubt it'll be $1500 cheaper than the previous 1DX III...

I think it's a reasonable price they more than make up the dollars with all the new lenses you will need for it. There also needs to be some room for the R1 price without making it ridiculous.

Indeed Canon could have both, the most expensive flagship camera, the future R1 and the less expensive (almost)"flagship" camera the R3

P.S. ... and there is still space for the "affordable" high resolution camera the R5s ... and the "mini/cropped" 1DXIII the R7

GatanoII wrote:

bernie r wrote:

$4999? Wishful thinking, highly doubt it'll be $1500 cheaper than the previous 1DX III...

If it is "just" an R5 on steroids with a grip, 4999$ or a little bit more is not that strange, it should be cheaper than the 1DXIII anyway.

P.S. If the specification are very different from my speculation ,the price could be anything between 4499$ to 6999$, as I already said.

I do not read this as an R5 on steroids. New stacked CMOS sensor, Eye control AF, 30 FPS, larger body with probably better battery life, 1 series weather resistance, and this is what we know, I am sure the camera will have more features. I see this as a camera designed to fully compete with the Sony A1.

I see a price at least at $5,999. Canon generally does not see the need to go after Sony on price, at least I have not seen Canon use price to compete on a new offering. The bigger question is Canon concerned about hurting EOS-1D X III. Then again, Canon maybe having problems selling the EOS-1D X III and they need a camera that can offer better competition to the A1 and they are not yet ready to release a R1

GatanoII wrote:

R3 spec and price speculation

30fps Stacked BSI CMOS Sensor, with much improved AF and 'Eye input AF' that's what we know.

"speculations"

- 20fps mechanical (it's inside the 1DXIII, no need to reinvent the wheel)

- 45MP (A1 and Z9 are 50MP and R5 is 45MP, it's plenty, but anything less is not enough)

- 8k with unlimited recording time (a "little" improvement over the R5, similar to A1 and Z9)

- 4999$ (Canon is going to war ... to win the mirrorless war)

We know it's an R3 and it's going to be priced between the R5 and 1DX III (and the future R1) could be anything between 4499$ to 6999$, but 4999$ could be just perfect for the current mirroless market.

I think 4999$ should be accurate for the current market, Canon could compete against A9II and A1 with just one camera... and easily win in the price/performance ratio with both, obviously also Nikon Z9 will be in serious trouble with such an aggressive pricing, overall Canon has space for a much more expensive camera with the future R1.

The 1DXIII price should be an indication, it's "expensive" because it's unique, no one else makes anymore DSLR with such high performance, that price point will be surpassed by the future R1, till then Canon should have mirrorless cameras below 1DXIII price.

The FF mirrorless war just started and Canon could win also the price race with a "jolly" camera like the R3 that could play the role of a flagship camera at a lower price than other manufacturers, because the true Canon flagship mirrorless, the R1, will come later.

We can already see the R6 compete very well against the A9 and A9II, very similar performance at a much lower price point, just missing the BSI stacked sensor.

Same story with the R5 , no Staked sensor, still competes well even against the new A1 and with an enormous price difference.

R3 with BSI staked sensor, will close the gap with Sony, but Canon by choosing to use an R3 instead of an R1 to fight this battle seems to suggest will still play the game having a somewhat better camera at a lower price point.

The 4999$ price could also push most oh the DSLR pro using the 1DXIII to move on, at a lower price they could have a better camera with no compromise except the (once)"loved" optical viewfinder, Canon will make more money with the RF glass once the migration is complete, at that point many will want more and the R1 will be ready to collect even more pro customers.

I agree. The price could well be either $4,995.00, or at most $5,495.00. Why? Market share. Canon would still make a healthy profit, especially if they can streamline production, which is something they are quite good at. And if they gain considerable market share with that kind of price, they can increase sales of their highest profit margin items - RF lenses.

They have every incentive to do such a thing, and have done similar moves in the past. For example, when Canon introduced the 1DsII, its real competition was not other DSLR's by function and image quality, but was actually medium format digital backs from companies like Phase One that then cost about $30,000.00 (I had one), without even an actual very expensive medium format body to go with it, compared to the (forgot the exact price when I bought two of them at introduction) maybe somewhere between $6,500 and $8,000. They revolutionized the high end pro market then, just as much as they later did with the prosumer market 5D Mark II. If they undercut the market with the R3, it would not at all be out of character and would leave room for the even higher priced R1 with a global shutter which would probably be not only amazing for stills but finally be the first true "hybrid' camera to be suitable for true high end video as well, with a price to match, probably in the $7,000.00 range.

All of this is just my idle speculation, but I did predict the price of the R5 correctly at well under $4,000.00 when others were talking much higher prices.

David Franklin wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

R3 spec and price speculation

30fps Stacked BSI CMOS Sensor, with much improved AF and 'Eye input AF' that's what we know.

"speculations"

- 20fps mechanical (it's inside the 1DXIII, no need to reinvent the wheel)

- 45MP (A1 and Z9 are 50MP and R5 is 45MP, it's plenty, but anything less is not enough)

- 8k with unlimited recording time (a "little" improvement over the R5, similar to A1 and Z9)

- 4999$ (Canon is going to war ... to win the mirrorless war)

We know it's an R3 and it's going to be priced between the R5 and 1DX III (and the future R1) could be anything between 4499$ to 6999$, but 4999$ could be just perfect for the current mirroless market.

I think 4999$ should be accurate for the current market, Canon could compete against A9II and A1 with just one camera... and easily win in the price/performance ratio with both, obviously also Nikon Z9 will be in serious trouble with such an aggressive pricing, overall Canon has space for a much more expensive camera with the future R1.

The 1DXIII price should be an indication, it's "expensive" because it's unique, no one else makes anymore DSLR with such high performance, that price point will be surpassed by the future R1, till then Canon should have mirrorless cameras below 1DXIII price.

The FF mirrorless war just started and Canon could win also the price race with a "jolly" camera like the R3 that could play the role of a flagship camera at a lower price than other manufacturers, because the true Canon flagship mirrorless, the R1, will come later.

We can already see the R6 compete very well against the A9 and A9II, very similar performance at a much lower price point, just missing the BSI stacked sensor.

Same story with the R5 , no Staked sensor, still competes well even against the new A1 and with an enormous price difference.

R3 with BSI staked sensor, will close the gap with Sony, but Canon by choosing to use an R3 instead of an R1 to fight this battle seems to suggest will still play the game having a somewhat better camera at a lower price point.

The 4999$ price could also push most oh the DSLR pro using the 1DXIII to move on, at a lower price they could have a better camera with no compromise except the (once)"loved" optical viewfinder, Canon will make more money with the RF glass once the migration is complete, at that point many will want more and the R1 will be ready to collect even more pro customers.

I agree. The price could well be either $4,995.00, or at most $5,495.00. Why? Market share. Canon would still make a healthy profit, especially if they can streamline production, which is something they are quite good at. And if they gain considerable market share with that kind of price, they can increase sales of their highest profit margin items - RF lenses.

They have every incentive to do such a thing, and have done similar moves in the past. For example, when Canon introduced the 1DsII, its real competition was not other DSLR's by function and image quality, but was actually medium format digital backs from companies like Phase One that then cost about $30,000.00 (I had one), without even an actual very expensive medium format body to go with it, compared to the (forgot the exact price when I bought two of them at introduction) maybe somewhere between $6,500 and $8,000. They revolutionized the high end pro market then, just as much as they later did with the prosumer market 5D Mark II. If they undercut the market with the R3, it would not at all be out of character and would leave room for the even higher priced R1 with a global shutter which would probably be not only amazing for stills but finally be the first true "hybrid' camera to be suitable for true high end video as well, with a price to match, probably in the $7,000.00 range.

All of this is just my idle speculation, but I did predict the price of the R5 correctly at well under $4,000.00 when others were talking much higher prices.

My guess is $6999 and the R1 will be $8999

Why do they refuse in any mirrorless mount to provide a 7d? Frustrating. To get the same pixel density of an 90d sensor in FF you’d need something stupid like 80mp. Where is the R7 crop body !!!???

Greenville wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

bernie r wrote:

$4999? Wishful thinking, highly doubt it'll be $1500 cheaper than the previous 1DX III...

If it is "just" an R5 on steroids with a grip, 4999$ or a little bit more is not that strange, it should be cheaper than the 1DXIII anyway.

P.S. If the specification are very different from my speculation ,the price could be anything between 4499$ to 6999$, as I already said.

I do not read this as an R5 on steroids. New stacked CMOS sensor, Eye control AF, 30 FPS, larger body with probably better battery life, 1 series weather resistance, and this is what we know, I am sure the camera will have more features. I see this as a camera designed to fully compete with the Sony A1.

Also the R5 competes well in most situation against the A1, I cold be wrong, but if my speculation of 45MP@30fps and 8k without limits and much reduced rolling shutter proves to be true, it's "just" an R5 on steroid, sure the body is 1DXIII like and the battery compartment looks even bigger than the 1D series (great if it's true) but the name is R3 and Canon naming scheme is pretty clear, EOS 3 was an "affordable" EOS 1, it could also attract R5 customers, for a little bit more you could, buy the R3 instead of the R5 (great marketing strategy).

Canon PR words "Landing between the robust EOS R5 and Canon’s flagship EOS-1D X Mark III" If the body is obviously stolen from the 1D line the "soul" should come from the R5, as the sensor is all new, it could mean it the same 45MP resolution and 8k, I could be wrong, but this is what I'm assuming/speculating.

The mirrorless affordable equivalent of the 1DXIII (except the body) is the R6 with exactly the same sensor and it's just 2499$, except for the missing BSI/Stacked it's a steal for the money compared to the A9/A9II.

If the Cinema Camera like the EOS C70 RF mount can be 5,499$, Canon could make a presumer camera like the R3 for just 4999$ [or 5999$ ] and don't think the Super35 Dual Gain Output (DGO) Sensor is going to make the difference in the price compared to a new and advanced FF stacked/BSI sensor, the Canon EOS C300 Mark III is 10999$ with the same Super 35mm sensor, also the 1DXIII will have an "inferior" sensor compared to the R3 , but will continue to be much more expensive anyway, the pricing is not done by just some electronic components alone.

The R3 to keep the tradition of the EOS 3 (and Canon seems to believe in the tradition of their camera names) will need to be the affordable pro camera "anyone" could buy, sure 4999$ is not properly affordable, but fits in a sweet spot between the price of the R5 and the 1DXIII, and as I pointed out the C70 is 5,499$ and the C70 body looks and is more pro oriented than the R3, sure if Canon has a different marketing strategy the price could even be close to 5999$, but I'm guessing Canon will play safe and will try to become the reference in the FF mirrorless camera market in the shortest time possible, and aggressive pricing should be part of this strategy.

I see a price at least at $5,999.

... and once Canon will announce more specification the next month someone will also say that even that is not high enough, I could also see a price above 5000$ to be realistic if Canon will push the limit with the R3, like 8k@60fps or something astonishing and unprecedented like that, but I suspect Canon is looking at a balanced camera that can make happy most pro photographers at a good price point, they need to justify the switch for many hard core pro Canon DSLR shooters and a good price is what is needed, the same approach the R70 makes R mount more interesting for video makers that want to switch from the trusted EF mount Canon Cinema Cameras.

Canon generally does not see the need to go after Sony on price, at least I have not seen Canon use price to compete on a new offering.

The more expensive camera will come and will be the R1, Canon is not shy to have cameras more expensive than Sony or Nikon, but for sure, judging by the name an R3 camera is not going to be priced like a flagship camera, close but not there

The bigger question is Canon concerned about hurting EOS-1D X III.

I think it's not concerned at all, Canon did know the transition was coming and mirrorless will replace most DSRL at some point and judging by how fast they can react, Canon was planning the transition way ahead, Canon Dual pixel AF is no joke, Canon IBIS is second to none, new lenses are coming at a fast pace and with innovation never seen elsewhere and now BSI stacked sensor just in time when it's needed for the market, I think Canon is just following their management own plans, the above innovations will not came out of the blue without proper planning and abilities.

Then again, Canon maybe having problems selling the EOS-1D X III and they need a camera that can offer better competition to the A1 and they are not yet ready to release a R1

Canon is ready to release the R3 because their marketing and engendering departments planned a few years ago an R3 camera was needed at some point, the R1 is obviously already planned, but not for today, Canon made a lot of development announcements in the last years so this is not a surprise, the surprise is the return of the EOS 3 family, but it's not a reaction to the A1 even if will obviously compete (the R5 already do in some areas).

R3 is clearly part of Canon strategy (BSI sensor should have been planned for many years), not a response in a rush to Sony or Nikon, but a response to the growing FF mirrorless market as a whole, the coincidence is that also Sony or Nikon have plans and their cameras will overlap with similar capabilities at some point, today is the day that shows 3 major manufacturers will soon have fast FF cameras with stacked BSI sensors inside, I don't know the price, but I think the R3 could be less expensive than the A1 or the Z9 and at the same time could be in some ways better and this just by the name, if it was the R1 anyone could safely bet that Canon will be the most expensive

BigBen08 wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

R3 spec and price speculation

The FF mirrorless war just started and Canon could win also the price race with a "jolly" camera like the R3 that could play the role of a flagship camera at a lower price than other manufacturers, because the true Canon flagship mirrorless, the R1, will come later.

Wonder if the R1 will be announced this year or next?

No clue, we need to wait a couple of months with more news from the R3 to speculate with more "precision" about the R1

Ad12 wrote:

Why do they refuse in any mirrorless mount to provide a 7d? Frustrating. To get the same pixel density of an 90d sensor in FF you’d need something stupid like 80mp. Where is the R7 crop body !!!???

I think an R7 should come at some point, the 90D is a DSLR and the M6II doesn't fit 7D user base requirements.

GatanoII wrote:

"speculations"

- 20fps mechanical (it's inside the 1DXIII, no need to reinvent the wheel)

The 1DXIII is 16fps mechanical shutter.

- 4999$ (Canon is going to war ... to win the mirrorless war)

It's been a long time since a professional Canon body with built-in grip started with a list price under $5000.  That doesn't seem to be in line with the current market.  I would guess minimum $5999 and more likely $6500.

They've said it's a step below the 1DX. They can't price it like a 1DX.

If they price it like a 1DX and tell people it's not up to 1DX standards why would anybody buy it?

I'm not even sure they can slot it in without lowering the R5 price to make room.

If they don't and the R3 is substantially better than the R5 why buy the R5?

"Ok Boss- a bunch of guys on DPReview say the R3 should be priced around $6000,let's set the price for that then"

Occams Razor wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

"speculations"

- 20fps mechanical (it's inside the 1DXIII, no need to reinvent the wheel)

The 1DXIII is 16fps mechanical shutter.

This is valid only when you use the optical viewfinder, It's 20fps with the mirror up, it still uses the mechanical shutter or electronic at your wish, both at 20fps.

- 4999$ (Canon is going to war ... to win the mirrorless war)

It's been a long time since a professional Canon body with built-in grip started with a list price under $5000. That doesn't seem to be in line with the current market. I would guess minimum $5999 and more likely $6500.

It has been also a long time since we saw the last EOS 3 and this is not an EOS 1 camera, so a lower price is to be expected, otherwise it make no sense to create this new name segmentation, Canon used to add a new letter for variants in both 5D and 1D cameras to differentiate the variants, but both categories were always separated by a huge price difference, the R3 will fill the hole between the R5 and the (future) R1, it make no sense to have the R3 at a similar R1 price.

JohnWick4001 wrote:

"Ok Boss- a bunch of guys on DPReview say the R3 should be priced around $6000,let's set the price for that then"

LOL, the same way Canon set the R5 above 8000$ while reading DPR comments a few months ago the same people were claiming an 8K camera with 45MP@20fps can't be below 4000$ but the R5 is 3899$.