I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...

Started Mar 23, 2021 | Discussions
SQLGuy
SQLGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 11,758
I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...
3

https://www.sony.com/electronics/converters-mount-adapters/la-ea5/buy/laea5

13 reviews, less than 2 stars average.

Maybe if more people write, or upvote, reviews complaining about the lack of wider support for screw drive lenses, Sony might get to hear that... since it's on their site.

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toughluck Veteran Member • Posts: 3,801
No, they won't.
7

SQLGuy wrote:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/converters-mount-adapters/la-ea5/buy/laea5

13 reviews, less than 2 stars average.

Maybe if more people write, or upvote, reviews complaining about the lack of wider support for screw drive lenses, Sony might get to hear that... since it's on their site.

No, they won't. I'm sorry to say this, but it's not how Sony operates. Sony apparently ignores criticism on principle.

Review bombing like this reeks of terrorism and nobody should cater to terrorists. Before you accuse me of playing the devil's advocate, let me explain.

I don't know whether the decision to only support screw drive focus on A6600 and A7R4 (and now A1) was due to technical difficulties, time constraints or pure marketing, but it was clearly mentioned in Sony's marketing materials and on Sony's support site. I don't know why people are ignorant of these limitations. Maybe they're impatient and don't want to waste time finding out, maybe they can't understand plain English, maybe it's something else. Either way, Sony is pretty up front with regards to what LA-EA5 is capable of.

As for the reason why only those two bodies were supported initially with screw drive AF and only support for A1 was added since, there are three broad categories, here with supporting and contradicting evidence:

MARKETING: Sony wants to promote the highest price APS-C and FF cameras which brings them more money and will offer full support for LA-EA5 to new cameras only going forward.

+ it's what companies do
+ lack of clear communication apparently supports this
+ adding support to A1 seems to carry it further
– Sony has a history of adding features to old cameras via firmware
– A7C was released after LA-EA5
– A7S3 was released shortly before LA-EA5

TECHNICAL: There is something about the sensors and/or AF processing in cameras that support screw drive with LA-EA5 that other cameras lack.

+ A6600 and A7R4, let alone A1 are the most sophisticated cameras Sony offers
+ A7C shares the sensor and AF processing with A73, so it was clear why support for A7C wasn't added.
– A6600 shares the sensor with A6400.
– A92 had by far the most sophisticated AF system of E mount cameras and a bespoke sensor and it's not supported

TIME CONSTRAINED: LA-EA5 was seemingly rushed to production.

+ Sony just needed one APS-C and one FF camera to work with it to get it out of the gate. As soon as support was added, they released it.
+ Support for A7R4 was required because it is the highest resolution E mount body so it takes the most advantage of sharpness.
+ It doesn't support video AF.
+ This appears to match their marketing materials since they tout compatibility with Zeiss 85 and 135, without giving much thought to other lenses.
+ This explains why some cameras were omitted that should be supported: A73/A7C because it would need extra work, A7S3 because it's video-oriented, A92 because it's not oriented for stills work.
+ If Sony added support for older cameras, they might not have enough time to support the latest ones. So supporting A7C/A73 means a very broad customer base, but no time to implement AF with A7R4. Similarly for A7R3. This takes away time to develop firmware for the latest cameras.
– Limited support for A7R4 is baked in with the initial firmware. This shows that the LA-EA5 was being developed for a while and kinks were worked out on the A7R4. (This could also be supporting evidence that shows it take a lot of work to fine tune the adapter.)
– There's no clear reason why it was rushed. Monster LA-EA4r is not much of a threat, since it requires people to get an LA-EA4 in the first place and it's never going to be manufacturer-supported. Discontinuing A mount was not necessary at this time, it could have carried on for a few more months.
– Sony should have released or at least announced updates that support screw drive AF by now.

I think that time constraint has the highest likelihood. Marketing advantage and avoiding dealing with technical issues on older cameras is just an extra perk. They may or may not add support for older bodies in the future, but then again, they may forgo it.

In closing, I think that negative customer reviews won't achieve anything. Not with most companies, but especially Sony.

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SQLGuy
OP SQLGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 11,758
Re: No, they won't.
7

Probably won't make a difference, but saying that people providing their feedback in a place where Sony is most likely to see it is terrorism is just nonsense.

As to why they did it? I don't really care. It may be that's it's more difficult to fully support the older cameras, but you won't convince me that it's impossible. I believe it's possible, and I want them to do it, and I want them to know that.

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Lensmate
Lensmate Veteran Member • Posts: 7,252
Re: No, they won't.

toughluck wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/converters-mount-adapters/la-ea5/buy/laea5

13 reviews, less than 2 stars average.

Maybe if more people write, or upvote, reviews complaining about the lack of wider support for screw drive lenses, Sony might get to hear that... since it's on their site.

No, they won't. I'm sorry to say this, but it's not how Sony operates. Sony apparently ignores criticism on principle.

Review bombing like this reeks of terrorism and nobody should cater to terrorists. Before you accuse me of playing the devil's advocate, let me explain.

I don't know whether the decision to only support screw drive focus on A6600 and A7R4 (and now A1) was due to technical difficulties, time constraints or pure marketing, but it was clearly mentioned in Sony's marketing materials and on Sony's support site. I don't know why people are ignorant of these limitations. Maybe they're impatient and don't want to waste time finding out, maybe they can't understand plain English, maybe it's something else. Either way, Sony is pretty up front with regards to what LA-EA5 is capable of.

As for the reason why only those two bodies were supported initially with screw drive AF and only support for A1 was added since, there are three broad categories, here with supporting and contradicting evidence:

MARKETING: Sony wants to promote the highest price APS-C and FF cameras which brings them more money and will offer full support for LA-EA5 to new cameras only going forward.

+ it's what companies do
+ lack of clear communication apparently supports this
+ adding support to A1 seems to carry it further
– Sony has a history of adding features to old cameras via firmware
– A7C was released after LA-EA5
– A7S3 was released shortly before LA-EA5

TECHNICAL: There is something about the sensors and/or AF processing in cameras that support screw drive with LA-EA5 that other cameras lack.

+ A6600 and A7R4, let alone A1 are the most sophisticated cameras Sony offers
+ A7C shares the sensor and AF processing with A73, so it was clear why support for A7C wasn't added.
– A6600 shares the sensor with A6400.
– A92 had by far the most sophisticated AF system of E mount cameras and a bespoke sensor and it's not supported

TIME CONSTRAINED: LA-EA5 was seemingly rushed to production.

+ Sony just needed one APS-C and one FF camera to work with it to get it out of the gate. As soon as support was added, they released it.
+ Support for A7R4 was required because it is the highest resolution E mount body so it takes the most advantage of sharpness.
+ It doesn't support video AF.
+ This appears to match their marketing materials since they tout compatibility with Zeiss 85 and 135, without giving much thought to other lenses.
+ This explains why some cameras were omitted that should be supported: A73/A7C because it would need extra work, A7S3 because it's video-oriented, A92 because it's not oriented for stills work.
+ If Sony added support for older cameras, they might not have enough time to support the latest ones. So supporting A7C/A73 means a very broad customer base, but no time to implement AF with A7R4. Similarly for A7R3. This takes away time to develop firmware for the latest cameras.
– Limited support for A7R4 is baked in with the initial firmware. This shows that the LA-EA5 was being developed for a while and kinks were worked out on the A7R4. (This could also be supporting evidence that shows it take a lot of work to fine tune the adapter.)
– There's no clear reason why it was rushed. Monster LA-EA4r is not much of a threat, since it requires people to get an LA-EA4 in the first place and it's never going to be manufacturer-supported. Discontinuing A mount was not necessary at this time, it could have carried on for a few more months.
– Sony should have released or at least announced updates that support screw drive AF by now.

I think that time constraint has the highest likelihood. Marketing advantage and avoiding dealing with technical issues on older cameras is just an extra perk. They may or may not add support for older bodies in the future, but then again, they may forgo it.

In closing, I think that negative customer reviews won't achieve anything. Not with most companies, but especially Sony.

Good points!

-Martin P

toughluck Veteran Member • Posts: 3,801
Re: No, they won't.

SQLGuy wrote:

Probably won't make a difference, but saying that people providing their feedback in a place where Sony is most likely to see it is terrorism is just nonsense.

It's a form of terrorism. Out of fear of backlash, companies are compelled to cater to demands of customers (or sometimes non-customers) that hinder their efforts in other areas.

It's a classic attempt at review bombing. I read those reviews. Out of all negative reviews, literally only one mentions actual issues with the LA-EA5 where "brewcruisin" mentioned that it performs worse than LA-EA3 with motored (=SSM/SAM) lenses, but then even that review goes on to add that screw drive support is limited to two bodies.

The news release and product documentation clearly state those limitations. Complaining about them achieves nothing and is useless as a review because, pardon the pun, it moves focus away from any actual issues that the adapter may have and doesn't tell you anything about its performance when the camera does fully support AF with screw drive lenses.

As to why they did it? I don't really care. It may be that's it's more difficult to fully support the older cameras, but you won't convince me that it's impossible. I believe it's possible, and I want them to do it, and I want them to know that.

Should I go to Sony and complain that my A99ii doesn't do work with E mount lenses or that I can't use my 85/1.4 or 135/1.8 on medium format cameras?

But going to the realm of what is physically possible: Should I review the A99ii as it performs with regards to its specifications and claims made by Sony in their release? Or should I complain that it's missing features that were added through firmware upgrades to A7R2 and A7R3?

Using your own words, you won't convince me that it's impossible, I believe it's possible and I want them to do it, and I want them to know that.

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MacroDonata
MacroDonata Contributing Member • Posts: 522
Comparing bad reviews to terrorism is despicable.
6

I knew people who were killed by terrorists.

For you to diminish the horror of their deaths by comparing it to a bad review is absolutely disgusting.

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SQLGuy
OP SQLGuy Forum Pro • Posts: 11,758
Re: No, they won't.
3

Go to the LA-EA5 product page and see how deep you need to dig to find out the specifics of supported bodies. You'll notice two things: One, such details are not given on the product page at all; Two, you'll be redirected twice to find the actual compatibility information and limitations, and, even after that, you have to walk through a pretty convoluted UI to get the details which could have been summed up with: only works on these two (now three) bodies.

It's bad enough that even some reviewers got it wrong when the adapter first shipped.

And, sure, feel free to let them know your thoughts on the A99II as well.

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tqlla Veteran Member • Posts: 6,188
Re: No, they won't.
2

SQLGuy wrote:

Go to the LA-EA5 product page and see how deep you need to dig to find out the specifics of supported bodies. You'll notice two things: One, such details are not given on the product page at all; Two, you'll be redirected twice to find the actual compatibility information and limitations, and, even after that, you have to walk through a pretty convoluted UI to get the details which could have been summed up with: only works on these two (now three) bodies.

It's bad enough that even some reviewers got it wrong when the adapter first shipped.

And, sure, feel free to let them know your thoughts on the A99II as well.

I agree, how hard is it to write.
*Autofocus with Screw driven lenses only work on the A7Riv, A6600 and A1.

Why are they trying to hide that, when its obvious they did that on purpose to screw A-mount owners one more time.

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AkashRana
AkashRana Regular Member • Posts: 357
Re: I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...
1

No sure how these people ended up writing those reviews, but from little of what I read these guys are ignorant of the capabilities of LA-EA5. A friend of mine works for Sony and has played with the adapter, speaks real good of the adapter and says its the best bet for adapting A-mount lenses at the moment. With right bodies, it works good; but has those superficial limitations imposed which if lifted, would make Sony loose on the sales of native E-mount lenses. Canon has done the best job when it comes to adapting EF lenses followed by Nikon with F-mount. Sony has diliberatly left out A-mount users as the pool was much smaller that Canon and Nikon DSLR users so Canon/Nikon gave great backwards capability and a gradual path to move to mirrorless as you loose a little with adapted lenses.

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tqlla Veteran Member • Posts: 6,188
Re: I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...
3

AkashRana wrote:

No sure how these people ended up writing those reviews, but from little of what I read these guys are ignorant of the capabilities of LA-EA5. A friend of mine works for Sony and has played with the adapter, speaks real good of the adapter and says its the best bet for adapting A-mount lenses at the moment. With right bodies, it works good; but has those superficial limitations imposed which if lifted, would make Sony loose on the sales of native E-mount lenses. Canon has done the best job when it comes to adapting EF lenses followed by Nikon with F-mount. Sony has diliberatly left out A-mount users as the pool was much smaller that Canon and Nikon DSLR users so Canon/Nikon gave great backwards capability and a gradual path to move to mirrorless as you loose a little with adapted lenses.

Yeah, that " those superficial limitations imposed which if lifted, would make Sony lose on the sales of native E-mount lenses" excuse is a garbage move by Sony.   At minimum the screw drive lenses should work with the Gen III E-mount camera's.

Canon isnt afraid that better compatibility will eat at their new lens sales, and Canon has TONS of high quality EF lenses.   Not just in variety, but in volume.  IE there are probably 1000x 24-70mm EF lenses in the wild compared to the A-mount versions.

Having better compatibility on the A-mount lenses would cost Sony very very few Emount lens sales.  IMO, they just limit A-mount lenses because they have some resentment or hatred towards us.

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Maxxuman Senior Member • Posts: 1,903
Re: Congratulations toughluck on the dumbest thing I've read all week
5

toughluck wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/converters-mount-adapters/la-ea5/buy/laea5

13 reviews, less than 2 stars average.

Maybe if more people write, or upvote, reviews complaining about the lack of wider support for screw drive lenses, Sony might get to hear that... since it's on their site.

No, they won't. I'm sorry to say this, but it's not how Sony operates. Sony apparently ignores criticism on principle.

Review bombing like this reeks of terrorism and nobody should cater to terrorists. Before you accuse me of playing the devil's advocate, let me explain.

I have no problem with the rest of what you said but comparing review bombing to terrorism is absolutely the dumbest thing I've read all week, and that's saying something.

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Barry

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toughluck Veteran Member • Posts: 3,801
Re: Comparing bad reviews to terrorism is despicable.

MacroDonata wrote:

I knew people who were killed by terrorists.

For you to diminish the horror of their deaths by comparing it to a bad review is absolutely disgusting.

First off, it's hyperbole.

Second, you never heard of children being referred to as little terrorists?

Third, limiting terrorism to just terrorist acts of violence diminishes the word. Business owners worldwide live in terror of bad reviews left not only by disgruntled customers but by concerted actions of their competitors.

Seriously, if that's not economic terorrism, what other word do you propose?

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Lensmate
Lensmate Veteran Member • Posts: 7,252
Re: I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...
1

tqlla wrote:

IMO, they just limit A-mount lenses because they have some resentment or hatred towards us.

That's laughable...

Companies don't shoot themselves in the foot period!

-Martin P

Ricky 92rt Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...
1

AkashRana wrote:

No sure how these people ended up writing those reviews, but from little of what I read these guys are ignorant of the capabilities of LA-EA5. A friend of mine works for Sony and has played with the adapter, speaks real good of the adapter and says its the best bet for adapting A-mount lenses at the moment. With right bodies, it works good; but has those superficial limitations imposed which if lifted, would make Sony loose on the sales of native E-mount lenses. Canon has done the best job when it comes to adapting EF lenses followed by Nikon with F-mount. Sony has diliberatly left out A-mount users as the pool was much smaller that Canon and Nikon DSLR users so Canon/Nikon gave great backwards capability and a gradual path to move to mirrorless as you loose a little with adapted lenses.

This doesn't make any sense

How much money does Sony make off users adapting Canon lenses? Problem with the LAEA5 is it only works on 3 bodies with screw drive lenses. What's the point of releasing an adapter if it doesn't work with most of your cameras. Not much point putting obstacles in the way of users on A mount - might wander off to other brands

Nikon don't even support screw drive AF, so how are they are next best to Canon?

MacroDonata
MacroDonata Contributing Member • Posts: 522
So, you're doubling down on your own ignorance.
1

You say that limiting the use of a word to its actual meaning diminishes the word itself.

Holy Crap, that sounds Orwellian.

Another commenter wrote that your original statement was the dumbest thing he had seen on the internet.

Congratulations on topping that with even more twisted nonsense.

Yes, it is hyperbole.  But, your pathetic choice to resort to that word dimishes the suffering of all victims of terrorism.

As soon as I hit "post", I'm going to see if there is a way to ignore you.  Nothing you have to say could be relevant to me.

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tqlla Veteran Member • Posts: 6,188
Re: I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...
1

Lensmate wrote:

tqlla wrote:

IMO, they just limit A-mount lenses because they have some resentment or hatred towards us.

That's laughable...

Companies don't shoot themselves in the foot period!

-Martin P

Companies can and do shoot themselves in the foot all the time.

 tqlla's gear list:tqlla's gear list
Sony RX1R II Sony a7R III Sony 135mm F1.8 ZA Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Sigma 24-70 F2.8 DG DN
Lensmate
Lensmate Veteran Member • Posts: 7,252
Re: I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...

tqlla wrote:

Lensmate wrote:

tqlla wrote:

IMO, they just limit A-mount lenses because they have some resentment or hatred towards us.

That's laughable...

Companies don't shoot themselves in the foot period!

-Martin P

Companies can and do shoot themselves in the foot all the time.

So you are telling me that when a company brings out a new, improved product, they should undercut it with their older product because it might upset a few peeps....?

I don't think so...!

-Martin P

tqlla Veteran Member • Posts: 6,188
Re: I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...
4

Lensmate wrote:

tqlla wrote:

Lensmate wrote:

tqlla wrote:

IMO, they just limit A-mount lenses because they have some resentment or hatred towards us.

That's laughable...

Companies don't shoot themselves in the foot period!

-Martin P

Companies can and do shoot themselves in the foot all the time.

So you are telling me that when a company brings out a new, improved product, they should undercut it with their older product because it might upset a few peeps....?

I don't think so...!

-Martin P

Its called building good will.  Fun fact, that usually helps your sales.

Canon isnt afraid of their old lenses hurting sales.  There are probably 100x more Canon 24-70mm F2.8 lenses available in the wild compared to Sony Zeiss.

But here is Sony, consistently putting arbitrary limits on the A-mount. They didnt have to keep that F3.5 limit on the A99ii, it wasnt a threat to E-mount.   But they did it anyways as a final kick in the teeth.

Now the LA-EA5's screw drive compatibility is limited to 3 cameras. They are just being jerks at this point.  John Rando was able to get an LA-EA4 to AF without a mirror.  Sony could do it too, but they choose to limit it to 3 camera's.

 tqlla's gear list:tqlla's gear list
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Lensmate
Lensmate Veteran Member • Posts: 7,252
Re: I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...

tqlla wrote:

Lensmate wrote:

tqlla wrote:

Lensmate wrote:

tqlla wrote:

IMO, they just limit A-mount lenses because they have some resentment or hatred towards us.

That's laughable...

Companies don't shoot themselves in the foot period!

-Martin P

Companies can and do shoot themselves in the foot all the time.

So you are telling me that when a company brings out a new, improved product, they should undercut it with their older product because it might upset a few peeps....?

I don't think so...!

-Martin P

Its called building good will. Fun fact, that usually helps your sales.

Canon isnt afraid of their old lenses hurting sales. There are probably 100x more Canon 24-70mm F2.8 lenses available in the wild compared to Sony Zeiss.

But here is Sony, consistently putting arbitrary limits on the A-mount. They didnt have to keep that F3.5 limit on the A99ii, it wasnt a threat to E-mount. But they did it anyways as a final kick in the teeth.

Now the LA-EA5's screw drive compatibility is limited to 3 cameras. They are just being jerks at this point. John Rando was able to get an LA-EA4 to AF without a mirror. Sony could do it too, but they choose to limit it to 3 camera's.

Sony has only been in the camera industry a short time, to which many thought/wished it would die a quick death. Its no surprise to me that they are on top forum presently with their approach to R/D and pushing the envelope. Certainly there might be some casualties along the way, but hardly devastating to say the least.

I never asked, nor wanted video in my cameras [and yes i know it doesn't add to the overall costs] but I don't jump up and down cursing the companies that do so.... its just part of the scenery these days, whether you like it or not.

Nobody thought Sony would come out with the la-ea5, but they did, even though it might only service several camera...better than nothing at all, and who knows, they may come out with something better in the future when e-mount is well rounded out and they have more time.

-Martin P

toughluck Veteran Member • Posts: 3,801
Re: I was reading the reviews of the LA-EA5 on Sony.com...

tqlla wrote:

Lensmate wrote:

tqlla wrote:

Lensmate wrote:

tqlla wrote:

IMO, they just limit A-mount lenses because they have some resentment or hatred towards us.

That's laughable...

Companies don't shoot themselves in the foot period!

-Martin P

Companies can and do shoot themselves in the foot all the time.

So you are telling me that when a company brings out a new, improved product, they should undercut it with their older product because it might upset a few peeps....?

I don't think so...!

-Martin P

Its called building good will. Fun fact, that usually helps your sales.

Canon isnt afraid of their old lenses hurting sales. There are probably 100x more Canon 24-70mm F2.8 lenses available in the wild compared to Sony Zeiss.

But here is Sony, consistently putting arbitrary limits on the A-mount. They didnt have to keep that F3.5 limit on the A99ii, it wasnt a threat to E-mount. But they did it anyways as a final kick in the teeth.

Now the LA-EA5's screw drive compatibility is limited to 3 cameras. They are just being jerks at this point. John Rando was able to get an LA-EA4 to AF without a mirror. Sony could do it too, but they choose to limit it to 3 camera's.

Where did you read that definitely, in no uncertain terms, Sony is not going to offer a firmware upgrade for older cameras to support LA-EA5 AF with screw drive lenses?

 toughluck's gear list:toughluck's gear list
Sony a99 II Sony 24-70mm F2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* Sony 85mm F1.4 ZA Carl Zeiss Planar T* Sony 135mm F1.8 ZA Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* Sony 50mm F2.8 Macro +12 more
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