M50 vs M6 mark ii vs 90D vs eos RP photography mainly

Hi Guys,
Some years ago i bought a used 50D to see if i liked doing photography, also done some courses.
Now i never use the 50D anymore, because of the bad iso performance, and  battery`s are all very bad, so im looking for something new.
I have watched many video`s about all cons and pros.
Im having a hard time choosing something new. i currently have Canon EF-S 18-135 is stm and EF 85mm 1.8 lenses
I`m currently leaning to buying a m6 mark ii, with EF-M to EF adapter, and a canon EF-M 32mm 1.4 lens.
So i can use the small EF-M lens as walkaround, smaller size, and 18-135 and 85 when i want to take more stuff with me.

Im really not sure if i want to spend the extra 200 euro for the kit with the 18-45 and viewfinder, not sure if im going to use the viewfinder? i guess i could sell the kit lens.

The m50 mark ii is 220 euro cheaper and has a builtin viewfinder.

Anyone has experience with this setup? or tips?

This is a big question and for sure there will be a myriad of views hence I think this was why no-one attempted to respond yet. Let me make a first stab.

I think you have within it quite a number of considerations that you must have already grappled with or are still being recycled:

1. Settling for absolute price and affordability vs value for money (a body that you can use for a very very long time - initial purchase higher but cheaper in the longer term and it doesn't need replacing)

2. form size vs large hand size preference (plus weight and portability)

3. Image Quality (and sensor megapixel size) and APS-C vs FF

4. Lens options - size, sharpness (quality), price of M vs R and option to keep EF-S vs native

5. Video capability 4K uncropped vs cropped

6. Focusing - accuracy and speed

7. EVF vs non fixed EVF

8. Customisable and range of dials and buttons and ergonomics

For me, it is clear beyond any doubt.

The M6 m2 is the killer camera that will last a very long long time (I won't need anything else).

And that outstandingly superb Ef-M 32 mm F1.4 lens with mind blowing image quality would alone be a good enough reason to buy EOS-M.

Good luck with your choice whatever it may be.

I own both M50 and RP  and I love them both .

AlbertH wrote:

Hi Guys,
Some years ago i bought a used 50D to see if i liked doing photography, also done some courses.
Now i never use the 50D anymore, because of the bad iso performance, and battery`s are all very bad, so im looking for something new.
I have watched many video`s about all cons and pros.
Im having a hard time choosing something new. i currently have Canon EF-S 18-135 is stm and EF 85mm 1.8 lenses
I`m currently leaning to buying a m6 mark ii, with EF-M to EF adapter, and a canon EF-M 32mm 1.4 lens.
So i can use the small EF-M lens as walkaround, smaller size, and 18-135 and 85 when i want to take more stuff with me.

Im really not sure if i want to spend the extra 200 euro for the kit with the 18-45 and viewfinder, not sure if im going to use the viewfinder? i guess i could sell the kit lens.

The m50 mark ii is 220 euro cheaper and has a builtin viewfinder.

Anyone has experience with this setup? or tips?

What do you plan to shoot?

R2

AlbertH wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

AlbertH wrote:

Hi Guys,
Some years ago i bought a used 50D to see if i liked doing photography, also done some courses.
Now i never use the 50D anymore, because of the bad iso performance, and battery`s are all very bad, so im looking for something new.
I have watched many video`s about all cons and pros.
Im having a hard time choosing something new. i currently have Canon EF-S 18-135 is stm and EF 85mm 1.8 lenses
I`m currently leaning to buying a m6 mark ii, with EF-M to EF adapter, and a canon EF-M 32mm 1.4 lens.
So i can use the small EF-M lens as walkaround, smaller size, and 18-135 and 85 when i want to take more stuff with me.

Im really not sure if i want to spend the extra 200 euro for the kit with the 18-45 and viewfinder, not sure if im going to use the viewfinder? i guess i could sell the kit lens.

The m50 mark ii is 220 euro cheaper and has a builtin viewfinder.

Anyone has experience with this setup? or tips?

R2D2 wrote:

What do you plan to shoot?

R2

mainly my family and things i encounter when we are on a trip

Thanks.  That helps us narrow the focus! 

Any of the cameras you mention would do great.  You just need to choose between sizes and features.

The 90D is about the same size as your 50D, and you could add the 50 STM for cheap.  It's going to be the biggest combo by far though.

The RP will be a fair bit smaller, and will provide the best ISO performance.  Add the RF 50 STM for cheap.

The M50 and M6ii are very compact, especially with EF-M lenses (like the 32).  They'll both do the job nicely.  Choose based on features.  Oh yeah, the super compact EF-M 22 f/2 is on sale right now.  And I actually like the 15-45 kit lens since it's so small.

I'm enjoying the heck out of the M6ii right now (the AF is outstanding), but I don't mind shooting using the back LCD at all.  You can add the EVF if you prefer (or get the M50 if you want one on there all the time).

Best of luck to you!

R2

R2D2 wrote:

AlbertH wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

AlbertH wrote:

Hi Guys,
Some years ago i bought a used 50D to see if i liked doing photography, also done some courses.
Now i never use the 50D anymore, because of the bad iso performance, and battery`s are all very bad, so im looking for something new.
I have watched many video`s about all cons and pros.
Im having a hard time choosing something new. i currently have Canon EF-S 18-135 is stm and EF 85mm 1.8 lenses
I`m currently leaning to buying a m6 mark ii, with EF-M to EF adapter, and a canon EF-M 32mm 1.4 lens.
So i can use the small EF-M lens as walkaround, smaller size, and 18-135 and 85 when i want to take more stuff with me.

Im really not sure if i want to spend the extra 200 euro for the kit with the 18-45 and viewfinder, not sure if im going to use the viewfinder? i guess i could sell the kit lens.

The m50 mark ii is 220 euro cheaper and has a builtin viewfinder.

Anyone has experience with this setup? or tips?

R2D2 wrote:

What do you plan to shoot?

R2

mainly my family and things i encounter when we are on a trip

Thanks. That helps us narrow the focus!

Any of the cameras you mention would do great. You just need to choose between sizes and features.

The 90D is about the same size as your 50D, and you could add the 50 STM for cheap. It's going to be the biggest combo by far though.

The RP will be a fair bit smaller, and will provide the best ISO performance. Add the RF 50 STM for cheap.

The M50 and M6ii are very compact, especially with EF-M lenses (like the 32). They'll both do the job nicely. Choose based on features. Oh yeah, the super compact EF-M 22 f/2 is on sale right now. And I actually like the 15-45 kit lens since it's so small.

I'm enjoying the heck out of the M6ii right now (the AF is outstanding), but I don't mind shooting using the back LCD at all. You can add the EVF if you prefer (or get the M50 if you want one on there all the time).

Best of luck to you!

R2

As R2 says , the RP will provide the best ISO performance. But there are a couple of caveats to that. The RP will only surpass the M6II in ISO performance beyond about ISO 640. At lower ISO settings, the M6II actually performs better. Also, to get the advantage of the RP's improved high ISO performance, you'll need lenses with comparable apertures. A 50 F1.4 on the RP will perform better wide open (noise-wise at least) at high ISO than will the 32 F1.4 on the M6II. But if you want to keep the RP setup compact, you'll probably be opting for the 50 F1.8. Given that that is 2/3 stop slower than the equivalent FOV EF-M lenses (either Canon 32 F1.4 or Sigma 30 F1.4), you'll lose most of the high ISO noise advantage. And given further that the 50 F1.8 (either EF or RF versions) is optically worse wide open than the EF-M 32, you'll probably want to shoot it at F2 or F2.2, which takes away the last bit of high ISO noise advantage of the RP. Probably about 90% of my shooting with the EF-M 32 is done wide open at F1.4. It's really sharp wide open. With the 50 (EF STM when I had it, and now RF STM) I almost never shoot at F1.8, but am often at F2 or F2.2. This, of course, only applies to this comparison, but it's one that's often made, because the most compact setup with the RP is using the RF 50 F1.8.

RP + RF 35mm STM + DxO DeepPRIME = low light WOW !

m100 wrote:

RP + RF 35mm STM + DxO DeepPRIME = low light WOW !

Yes, I love that lens on my R. I have shots at ISO 40,000 that look great. And that's with LR noise reduction. I'm sure that DxO is even better, but I like LR, and honestly don't need the extra bit that DxO will give for that 0.1% of shots that will benefit from it. I just tried the new super upscaling feature released in the latest version of PS, and am amazed at how good it is. Of course, I'll almost never need it, but it's nice to know that I can turn my R into a 120MP camera and my M6II into a 130MP camera when I want to.

That I lived to see the day.

I have yet to try DxO DeepPRIME with some of my 10D, 20D,30D or 40D files.

Some of my favorite old photos have never seen good NR software.

m100 wrote:

DxO DeepPRIME = low light WOW !

+100 DxO Deep Prime is my new fave!

It's fun going back and re-processing old(er) images with such impressive noise reduction.

R2

You probably want to pick up the kit lens with the M6ii or M50.

The 18-135 is a big lens for an M and doesn't balance well especially If you use a neck strap. The M cameras don't feel right dangling any big lens on it. If you want to use it for travel, you want the flexibility of zoom and for it to be comfortable lugging it around.

Viewfinder is very personal. I never use mine with the M3 or M6.

AlbertH wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

What do you plan to shoot?

R2

mainly my family and things i encounter when we are on a trip

Just don't get the 90D.  For shooting family you want mirrorless autofocus, and for trips you want a relatively small setup.

So it's between M and RF.

For M lenses the 32mm f/1.4 is stellar: L zoom quality. If you're happy to shoot mainly with this prime, go with the M6mkII. Be aware your crop zoom could become rapidly a bit long in the tooth as it won't be anything near the performance of the prime.

If you also prefer to get high IQ with a zoom, the RF 24-105mm f/4.0 L is the lens to get. That lens is at least about on par with the ef-m primes. For now the RP is the most affordable way to run that lens, and within a few years you can update this body when the price of the R or R6 have come down.  F/4.0 seems to be dark compared to f/1.4 of some M primes, however, the R performs better at ISO 1250 than the M6mkII at ISO 200. For best sharpness these primes need a little (only a little) stopping down, so all in all, even for light gathering, the f/4.0 zoom isn't that bad, and if it's really a problem you can always add the RF 35mm f/1.8, which will absolutely give better low light performance and shallower DOF compared to the ef-m 22mm f/2.0, and the RF prime is stabilized.

So to my eye it narrows down this:

Is zoom performance most important? >> get the RP + 24-105mm f/4.0 L  IS USM.

Is prime performance and compactness most important? Get the M6mkII + 32mm f/1.4 stm.

Just don't get the 90D. For shooting family you want mirrorless autofocus, and for trips you want a relatively small setup.

The 90D is an M6-II in a DSLR body with an OVF + Mirror box AND EFCS ! . it has the same Live view AF as the M6-II but with EFCS so no shutter shock , it uses his existing lenses without an adapter , handles far better because of its size and if he`s happy with the size of the 50D the 90D would be fine

Yeah - the LV AF is a lot better than the OVF AF in the 90D , its a shame they didn`t cut out the mirror and build in an EVF instead as it`d be the perfect crossover camera for those with Canon EF glass who want proper handling, rugged APS_C camera with the best APS_C sensor .

AdamT wrote:

Just don't get the 90D. For shooting family you want mirrorless autofocus, and for trips you want a relatively small setup.

The 90D is an M6-II in a DSLR body with an OVF + Mirror box AND EFCS ! . it has the same Live view AF

Been there, done that. Holding my 70D in front of me just to get the best AF for shooting persons wasn't a great handling experience for me.

as the M6-II but with EFCS so no shutter shock , it uses his existing lenses without an adapter,

OP can use the existing EF(-s)lenses with adapter on M, while you can't use excellent ef-m lenses on the 90D.

handles far better because of its size

That's definitely not true when using Live View mode to get the AF you want. So with the 90D you get either bad handling and good AF, or good handling and bad AF (bad = no sufficient face and eye tracking across the frame).

and if he`s happy with the size of the 50D the 90D would be fine

"is happy" and "was happy" isn't the same

Yeah - the LV AF is a lot better than the OVF AF in the 90D , its a shame they didn`t cut out the mirror and build in an EVF instead as it`d be the perfect crossover camera for those with Canon EF glass

That's only an advantage if you're allergic to adapters. For the rest it's a disadvantage, as pretty much all ef-m primes are better options compared to their ef-s counter parts.

who want proper handling, rugged APS_C camera with the best APS_C sensor .

If the body should be big, heavy, rugged, build like a tank, etc., the 90D offers that, however, it only comes with significant trade offs.

- no compatibility with the stellar ef-m mount primes. Note: the best crop portrait lenses are amongst these ef-m primes.

- no mirrorless AF across the frame (at least not without awkward handling, where weight and size aren't a benefit at all)

- no face and eye tracking for shooting persons (family in the case of the OP) (at least not without awkward handling, where weight and size aren't a benefit at all)

- no mirrorless AF accuracy without it's need for AF calibration. (at least not without awkward handling, where weight and size aren't a benefit at all)

I would only get a 90D for shooting sports or wildlife with lots of light. The high pixel density is a benefit here, however, I find the low light capabilities of my M6mkII compared to my R..... weak. That's not a problem, as it's not a fair comparison, however, all the stuff where the "fake reach" and fast AF of the 90D are beneficial, are cases generally benefiting too from a better high ISO performance. OTOH: bodies like the R6 and R5 + glass giving the same reach are way more expensive, and the OVF will always be better for some cases, so the 90D has it's place. But I think it's not the best camera for the OP here, as sports or wildlife wasn't mentioned as OPs photography.

Been there, done that. Holding my 70D in front of me just to get the best AF for shooting persons wasn't a great handling experience for me.

Neither is doing the same with an M6-II

as the M6-II but with EFCS so no shutter shock , it uses his existing lenses without an adapter,

OP can use the existing EF(-s)lenses with adapter on M, while you can't use excellent ef-m lenses on the 90D.

there aren`t many excellent M lenses and unlikely to be any more , the 11-22 and two primes are about it and they`re replicated in EF / EFs many times over in Canon and 3rd party ..

That's definitely not true when using Live View mode to get the AF you want. So with the 90D you get either bad handling and good AF, or good handling and bad AF (bad = no sufficient face and eye tracking across the frame).

I`d say shooting a 90D from the LCD is a lot more stable than an M6-II , neither have IBIS but the 90D has a good solid grip . of course there`s the EVF option of the M6II , the one area where it wins, apart from pocketability with a prime , as I say I think they ought to have made the 90D OVF-less

That's only an advantage if you're allergic to adapters

adapters make EF lenses even bigger

. For the rest it's a disadvantage, as pretty much all ef-m primes are better options compared to their ef-s counter parts.

All three of them ! (and one of those is a pretty useless slow short macro lens)   --  there are endless superb EF/EFS Primes in canon and Sigma , the guy may not even want to use primes anyway .

- no compatibility with the stellar ef-m mount primes. Note: the best crop portrait lenses are amongst these ef-m primes.

Above - endless EF mount primes from bargain cheapos to full on Pro level L s . there isn't a single decent standard zoom for EF-M, not even as good as the cheapo EF-S 18-55 STM  - you have to use the 11-22 and crop to zoom so natively its that, primes or a clumsy setup with the adapter with an EF lens on ......

- no mirrorless AF across the frame (at least not without awkward handling, where weight and size aren't a benefit at all)

they are for Stability and the 90D HAS EFCS so you`re not forced to use the wobbly E-Shutter when using lenses with IS built in

Just giving the 90D a fair shout here for a guy with EF glass who's used to using a DSLR instead of something which handles more like a G3X with a lens mount .....

believe me there's nothing I'd Like more than Canon to make a native 15-80 F3.5-5,6 which is as good as the 11-22 and put EFCS in the M6-IIs firmware (canon cripple hammer tactics there I fear) , or better still make an M5-II (with IBIS as well ) but they haven't yet and likely won't  ..... I Liked the M cams I`ve had very much but canon refuse to stop starving the system of glass and refuse to stop crippling the things and lineup

AdamT wrote:

. For the rest it's a disadvantage, as pretty much all ef-m primes are better options compared to their ef-s counter parts.

All three of them ! (and one of those is a pretty useless slow short macro lens) -- there are endless superb EF/EFS Primes in canon and Sigma , the guy may not even want to use primes anyway .

3 Canon's - and all are great IMHO including the "useless slow short macro" - nice and very sharp and in right applications works really well.

3 Great sigmas - the 56mm a real gem. Plus other 3rd party

- no compatibility with the stellar ef-m mount primes. Note: the best crop portrait lenses are amongst these ef-m primes.

Above - endless EF mount primes from bargain cheapos to full on Pro level L s . there isn't a single decent standard zoom for EF-M, not even as good as the cheapo EF-S 18-55 STM - you have to use the 11-22 and crop to zoom so natively its that, primes or a clumsy setup with the adapter with an EF lens on ......

The 15-45 mm - an average copy is just as good as the 18-55 EFS.  I've just sent back a used 17-55 - guess why decentered and not as good as my 15-45 - a small lens which if used correctly it very good for intended use -  just check for some copy variation and shutter shock at slower speed (use electronic shutter).

R and RP are quite nice but none of the "must have" features of the R5 - now that with a 28-70 f/2 is quite some camera.. but mega bucks