FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Mikedigi
Mikedigi Forum Pro • Posts: 11,150
Re: FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)
1

jlina wrote:

Don't despair! It is a wild and windy day with a storm blowing in and I just took 20 minutes of photos. I'll be happy to share! It was also my first try at -2 highlights. Will post later.

Bring it on . . . . . .

-1 to -5 Highlights could get me out of shooting at -1 to -1/3 EV all the time!!!!! Just like you.

Mike

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Mikedigi
Mikedigi Forum Pro • Posts: 11,150
Re: FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)

Labe wrote:

Hi , I’ve used fz330 in foggy damp and even rainy conditions and even after dark handheld.

I like this, the fun is in getting the best out of the camera in your hand, not worrying about whether you really need to get a tank-sized full-frame DSLR/ILC . . . .    

Mike

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Mikedigi
Mikedigi Forum Pro • Posts: 11,150
Re: FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)
1

jshen808 wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm starting this thread to post my full-size out-of-camera jpgs. . . . . . . .

Going well, I am looking forward to Part 2.

Mike

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Mikedigi
Mikedigi Forum Pro • Posts: 11,150
First prod into Highlights Shadows
1

Two scenes, 2 ways - first with Highlights 0, Shadows 0, second with Highlights -5, Shadows -5.

1.

2.

3.

4.

Well, I guess it does something . . . . . . . .

Mike

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Jon_T
Jon_T Veteran Member • Posts: 5,610
Re: First prod into Highlights Shadows
1

Mikedigi wrote:

Two scenes, 2 ways - first with Highlights 0, Shadows 0, second with Highlights -5, Shadows -5.

1.

2.

3.

4.

Well, I guess it does something . . . . . . . . ..

Hi Mike,

All depends upon ambient lighting conditions and how one wants to use images.

A lot of my shooting done in adverse lighting conditions, along with changes in lighting while shooting.

Hence for 'myself', overall far easier to do highlights/ shadows adjustments with post processing rather than constantly fiddling with JPG settings—when I do shoot JPG.

As to 'in-camera adjustments'; been there done that. For over a decade shot a lot of slide film which 'requires' correct exposure and white balance as there's no post processing. Glad I do not need to do so any longer.

Just for fun, below are your two "Highlights 0, Shadows 0" with some 'quick tweaks' with PSE.

Being a old film photog, post processing is part of the fun/ creativity of photography.

Cheers,
Jon

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jlina
jlina Senior Member • Posts: 1,925
Re: FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)
1

Nah, Mike. I hated it but I'm glad to see your experiments. maybe because it was a storm rolling in but the photos looked drum roll..... Just like those faded poor photos from the fz300! I had PTSD looking at them.

however I have found a blog from someone named Andrew who used to post about this in 2014 and a big long review on this forum that deals with the subject. I will look it up and post the links here in a little while

Also I don't understand the depth of field conversation but I read quickly that the small sensors have a smaller triangle cone hitting the sensor affecting the depth of field....

I don't like a blurred background particularly either but it seems like that's going to happen and we need to figure out how to make the best of it. That's not as interesting as the highlight and shadows conversation going on though.

Take care

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jlina

jlina
jlina Senior Member • Posts: 1,925
Re: First prod into Highlights Shadows
1
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https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-fz1000/13

http://cameraergonomics.blogspot.com/2014/09/fz1000-preventing-blown-highlights-with.html?m=1

This is all been done before LOL but it's fun redoing it!

There's something where you when you turn the contrast down which I think is shadows and highlights you turn the color saturation up.

the guy with the blog Andrew used to post here I don't know if he still does.

Hope you have a good one Mike!

jlina

jlina
jlina Senior Member • Posts: 1,925
Re: First prod into Highlights Shadows
1

Excellent PP Jon! Would you say adjusting the highlights or shadows is comparable to adjusting EV lower? unless you are shooting clouds is this even something that I should think about? I tried it on bird feathers yesterday and got nothing better than I do with a zero balance on the shadows and highlights.

Thanks!

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jlina

jlina
jlina Senior Member • Posts: 1,925
Re: First prod into Highlights Shadows FZ1000ii
1

0 setting

-2 highlight

-2 cloudy storm

blown highlights?!!

Let me know what you think....

bird detail -

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jlina

Mikedigi
Mikedigi Forum Pro • Posts: 11,150
Re: First prod into Highlights Shadows

Jon_T wrote:

. . . . Hence for 'myself', overall far easier to do highlights/ shadows adjustments with post processing rather than constantly fiddling with JPG settings—when I do shoot JPG. . . . . . .

Thanks Jon,

I did not want to pre-judge my pics but to await the comments of others, but the in-camera Highlights Shadows (here set deliberately to -5) have turned my pics into garbage.

So in general I am guessing that this is not Gold, it is more Fool's Gold. But it may or may not have uses at less extreme settings and on different subjects.

[ E.G - i-Zoom - with my FZ330, at extreme i-Zoom, "2344mm", at least one gets an empowering or at least novel user experience, without totally destroying the image. Fun, but in general (though not always), not Gold but Fool's Gold. ]

I am an unreconstructed JPEG shooter, but many thanks to you and to Nick (gardenersassistant), I always use Adobe Camera Raw in PSE, when necessary, which suits my simple needs, and of course the Highlights and Shadows functions there are Gold.

Thank you for your PSE results, very nice.

Mike

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Mikedigi
Mikedigi Forum Pro • Posts: 11,150
Re: First prod into Highlights Shadows FZ1000ii

jlina wrote:

Let me know what you think...

Yeah, in that weather and with those subjects, there are no "blowable highlights" to avoid, unlike Labe's sun-and-clouds.

The bird pics are OK for identification purposes but they are too far away to attempt "birders' pics" as per Stevie, Roger or Ramanan.

Stevie's comment that the main subject should fill a lot of the frame is important.

I don't take my birds too seriously, but my FZ330 does much better than that, but at around 15-20 feet distance, and so would your FZ1000-ii.

Mike

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Mikedigi
Mikedigi Forum Pro • Posts: 11,150
Re: FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)

jlina wrote:

Also I don't understand the depth of field conversation but I read quickly that the small sensors have a smaller triangle cone hitting the sensor affecting the depth of field....

I wouldn't worry about triangle cones, all you need to know is this:

With your FZ1000-ii -

f2.8 gives shallowest focus depth.

f11 gives deepest focus depth.

and, funnily enough, in-between f-stops give in-between focus depths.

Nothing else matters.

That is partly why I only shoot in Aperture Priority mode.

And yes, I say "focus depth", not "depth of field", because this is about "focus" not "fields" (where cows graze peacefully), but then, that's just me, I have always been troublesome.

Mike

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Sue Anne Rush
Sue Anne Rush Senior Member • Posts: 4,007
Re: First prod into Highlights Shadows FZ1000ii
1

These are sharp and beautiful - thanks for sharing. 

jlina wrote:

0 setting

-2 highlight

-2 cloudy storm

blown highlights?!!

Let me know what you think....

bird detail -

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Sue Anne Rush

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Sue Anne Rush
Sue Anne Rush Senior Member • Posts: 4,007
Re: FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)

These are beautiful series - thanks for sharing. 

Labe wrote:

jlina wrote:

Hi John! I'm always wondered about the weather sealing...how much does it matter when Stevie literally told me to take photos only on sunny days to avoid disappointment?

as you see in the original picture on this thread cloudy gloomy day is really affect the photos from the 300....

So unless you're taking the camera canoeing how is it a big benefit if you don't have the light?

Hope you're having a great day!

Hi , I’ve used fz330 in foggy damp and even rainy conditions and even after dark handheld.

The rain came after fog

The fog , Misty damp ..

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Sue Anne Rush

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Al Ball Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: *FAO Franno83*
2

Stevie Boy Blue wrote:

It’s difficult to assess what you regard as low (poor) light.

Like you, I live in the UK and to me low light conditions are often brought about by inappropriate weather even at midday. For the purposes of this post, I’ll assume that we share the same ideas of where we’d expect to increase ISO to maintain reasonable shutter speeds at any given aperture setting. Dark cloud cover at any time will bring about that necessity, as will the period of dusk into complete darkness. Any of those to me represent low light.

Truth is, since I gave up doing portrait photography in dimly lit night clubs I rarely shoot in the dark, so let’s stick with whatever we’re likely to face whilst the sun’s still up but is either well hidden or close to setting.

Bear in mind that compared to your FZ80, either camera in which you’re interested will be an improvement under any conditions at the focal lengths that cross over – up to 400mm on the FZ1000 (2) and up to 600mm on the FZ330. Anything beyond that range is pretty much null and void except to say that you’re almost sure to miss the extra optical reach afforded by the 80, even though to me its full maximum 1200mm results are really not up to much at all and regardless of who shoots the photos. Enough on that score, though, as I’ve said all this a few times before.

Ultimately, results from either the 1000 (2) or the 330 will be less noisy and more detailed in all conditions than the 80. The 1000 (2) has a sensor almost four times larger than the 330, but it’s results will in no way be four times better overall than are achievable with the smaller model. Yes, the 1000 has slightly more dynamic range and affords more capacity for cropping images down, but the FZ330 has 200mm more optical reach and is not found wanting all that often in my experience.

As it stands, you asked about low light results from the 330. Bear in mind that my yardstick for output from any camera is its ability to render fine fur and feather detail at maximum zoom.

The OOC Jpeg shots I display below, although reduced in size for uploading purposes, show the FZ330’s capacity to record good levels of detail under what I regard as low light conditions. By all means judge for yourself whether the standard of fine detail retention is on your level and what you might expect. The key is to fill as much as the frame as possible with the subject – even with a 1inch sensor camera.

Ultimately I’d say that either camera is capable of serving you well within the FZ range’s limitations as a whole, which to me perhaps makes the FZ330 the most bang-for-the-buck prospect. When push comes to shove, though, neither the FZ1000 nor 330 are particularly great performers in seriously low light, as each model still possesses a relatively small sensor compared to serious low light kit and which tends to begin at M4/3rd size and larger. Much depends on what you personally find acceptable image quality wise and where you're headed in the future.

Good luck with your decision, Fran.I hope at least some of this post helps.

Beyond that, if you haven’t already done so, check out my review of the FZ330 here and ensure you also read a good number of the posts below it for elaboration of some of the points covered:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63244070

Furthermore, you may find my FZ2000 review useful too as a means to see what 1’’ sensor FZs can do. Having compared the FZ1000, 1000 2 and 2000 side by side in terms of handling and OOC results, I went with the 2000 for its additional video features and built-in ND filters. I’m not suggesting you should do the same, but the review may broaden your horizons, not forgetting of course that there are more compact 1” models beyond FZs that may be worth you looking at, too.

For what it’s worth, here’s a link to my FZ2000 review:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4513863

FZ330 low light examples below, from ISO 200 through to ISO 800:

The shot above of old sleepy head is a fairly large crop, which is something I rarely do.

Cheers and all the best…

Sorry.

I see this is intended for the named person. But I could not pass by without commenting.

The level of detail seen in all of these shots is impressive for the sensor size and ISO values.

Excellent results from you and your fz300.

Light levels were obviously low due to aperture settings and shutter speeds.

The water voles are cute. We have some near home but they are so skittish I cannot get near them.

You mentioned the fz80. I had one.

Like you I was not impressed with photos taken at full zoom.

Ended up swapping it for the canon sx70. Details are much better than the fz80 at 1200mm.

Now I have a new fz300 to play with. If I get only half the quality seen in your shots here and in other posts I will be more than happy.

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Mikedigi
Mikedigi Forum Pro • Posts: 11,150
Birds - distance
1

jlina wrote:

Let me know what you think.... bird detail -

I wrote:

I don't take my birds too seriously, but my FZ330 does much better than that, but at around 15-20 feet distance, and so would your FZ1000-ii.

These are SOOC, not cropped, they are not birder quality, they were shot through the double glazing at about 18 feet distance and I set the FZ330 to 3MP for EZ zoom "1072mm" (not max 3MP EZ, that would have been "1172mm")

The light was dull so I chose f3.5 and 400 ISO to give me faster shutter speed

I had deleted these, but they are good enough to show what I mean about "bird distance":

1.

2.

Mike

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(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 12,611
Re: FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)

jlina wrote:

Hey thanks what I really wanted to discuss is highlights and shadows I found an old thread from 2014.... So it sounds like y'all have been discussing that a while. I think I'll start a new thread on it tomorrow. I have the same problem trying to pull up photos on this tablet. Take care!

THE HIGHLIGHTS AND SHADOWS settings are basically tone curves for either low contrast (flat image) or high contrast (bright whites and black blacks).

Where as EV controls are more like high key (very bright almost washed out) or low key (under exposed deep shadows)

These things are all image dependant and not set and forget type settings .

One of the advantages of using EVF is you can see these changes with each adjustment .

-2 highlights +2 shadows

+2 highlights -2 shadows

-2 highlights +2 shadows..

+2highlights -2 shadows

I love the high contrast for black and white , it gives it more bite instead of bland tones of grey..

+2 highlights -2 shadows mono

and heres images showing the difference between high key and low key.

high key or +EV

low key or -EV

-
Back to bridge cameras......

Mikedigi
Mikedigi Forum Pro • Posts: 11,150
Re: FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)
1

Labe wrote:

THE HIGHLIGHTS AND SHADOWS settings are basically tone curves for either low contrast (flat image) or high contrast (bright whites and black blacks).

Where as EV controls are more like high key (very bright almost washed out) or low key (under exposed deep shadows)

These things are all image dependant and not set and forget type settings .

One of the advantages of using EVF is you can see these changes with each adjustment .I love the high contrast for black and white , it gives it more bite instead of bland tones of grey . . . . . . . . . .

Labe, I was struggling too, thank you for this very clear explanation.

I see that in the Highlights Shadows menu function I can quickly use the Navigator left-right, right-left to get 3 pre-set curves (of which you have shown 2), or I can use the horizontal and vertical wheels to get anything I like, e.g. Highlights 0, Shadows -4.

Your High Contrast /Low Contrast and High Key/Low Key explanation is very helpful.

Have you shown Pics 1 and 2 twice or am I reading them wrong?

Mike

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Jon_T
Jon_T Veteran Member • Posts: 5,610
Re: First prod into Highlights Shadows FZ1000ii
1

jlina wrote: ...

Another advantage of PP; remove items  😊

blown highlights?!!

Let me know what you think....

Do not see any "blown" highlights.

Jon

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(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 12,611
Re: FZ300.. Full-size out-of-camera jpgs (Pt.1)
1

Mikedigi wrote:

Labe wrote:

THE HIGHLIGHTS AND SHADOWS settings are basically tone curves for either low contrast (flat image) or high contrast (bright whites and black blacks).

Where as EV controls are more like high key (very bright almost washed out) or low key (under exposed deep shadows)

These things are all image dependant and not set and forget type settings .

One of the advantages of using EVF is you can see these changes with each adjustment .I love the high contrast for black and white , it gives it more bite instead of bland tones of grey . . . . . . . . . .

Labe, I was struggling too, thank you for this very clear explanation.

I see that in the Highlights Shadows menu function I can quickly use the Navigator left-right, right-left to get 3 pre-set curves (of which you have shown 2), or I can use the horizontal and vertical wheels to get anything I like, e.g. Highlights 0, Shadows -4.

Your High Contrast /Low Contrast and High Key/Low Key explanation is very helpful.

Have you shown Pics 1 and 2 twice or am I reading them wrong?

Mike

I’m glad it has helped you out .

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