Lumix zs60 vs zs100 vs ?

I am debating about getting a new camera and/or upgrading my phone to get a better camera. I have a DSLR that I rarely carry on walks and would like something small that will fit in a pocket with a zoom for bird  photography.

I was originally leaning towards the Lumix zs100 with it's 1" sensor and 10x zoom.  It is about the only camera I have found small enough to fit in a pocket with a decent zoom and 1" sensor. The Lumix zs60k has a smaller sensor (1/2.3") but a wider zoom - 30x.  The larger sensor of the zs100 seems to have more advantages than the wider zoom of the zs60 in general, but I am thinking that the long zoom of the zs60 will make it a better chioce for bird photography.  From what I can gather in reading online, wide angle general purpose photos may come out better from a good phone camera than either of these choices so having the zs60 with it's long zoom may make better sense to complement a cell phone camera.

I don't have a lot of knowledge about cropping, but would cropping images from the zs100 to adjust for the difference in sensor size give the same magnification as from the zs60?  If so, would there be disadvantages in doing this?

I will be upgrading my phone in the next year and read reviews of the Galaxy S21 which has three camera sensors - wide angle, 3x and 10x I believe. The broader question, I am wondering is whether either of these camera's are going to be enough of an improvement over a good cell phone camera to justify the purchase.  It seems that the longer zooms will be the biggest advantage over a cell phone camera from what I know.  Any advice will be appreciated!

adamsdp wrote:

I am debating about getting a new camera and/or upgrading my phone to get a better camera. I have a DSLR that I rarely carry on walks and would like something small that will fit in a pocket with a zoom for bird photography.

I was originally leaning towards the Lumix zs100 with it's 1" sensor and 10x zoom. It is about the only camera I have found small enough to fit in a pocket with a decent zoom and 1" sensor. The Lumix zs60k has a smaller sensor (1/2.3") but a wider zoom - 30x. The larger sensor of the zs100 seems to have more advantages than the wider zoom of the zs60 in general, but I am thinking that the long zoom of the zs60 will make it a better chioce for bird photography. From what I can gather in reading online, wide angle general purpose photos may come out better from a good phone camera than either of these choices so having the zs60 with it's long zoom may make better sense to complement a cell phone camera.

I don't have a lot of knowledge about cropping, but would cropping images from the zs100 to adjust for the difference in sensor size give the same magnification as from the zs60? If so, would there be disadvantages in doing this?

I will be upgrading my phone in the next year and read reviews of the Galaxy S21 which has three camera sensors - wide angle, 3x and 10x I believe. The broader question, I am wondering is whether either of these camera's are going to be enough of an improvement over a good cell phone camera to justify the purchase. It seems that the longer zooms will be the biggest advantage over a cell phone camera from what I know. Any advice will be appreciated!

One must take a bit of care when dealing with cell phone cameras. The specifications may not always live up to their hype. As an example, I have a Samsung A51 phone. Admittedly this is nowhere near the top of the line as phones go. Supposedly this phone can do both 25MP and 12 MP photos. Indeed, if you count pixels, all the pixels are there. But, while viewing photos normally, they look great, but diving in closer, things degrade rapidly.

As an example, here are two shots taken with the phone at 25 MP resolution and at 12 MP resolution.

25 MP Phone

12 MP phone

Compare that with a lowly 14MP shot from a ZS19.

ZS19 14MP

If you want better resolution here's an RX10iv shot:

RX10iv 20 MP

Theoretically, the 25MP phone should have more resolution than my 20MP camera. That didn't happen.

My phone photos are very over sharpened and have lots of artifacts. Now I cannot attest if the higher quality Samsung phones will do better or not. And you mentioned photos at wide angle, the above shots were wide angle. My point being the phone did not deliver the expected quality level the specifications seemed to promise.

The ZS60 is 18MP. The ZS100 is 20MP. Not much difference in resolution. If you crop the ZS100 to emulate a longer zoom, you will find yourself with very few pixels left. You might get about 20% more "zoom" by cropping, but beyond that, forget it.

The ZS60 will do a great job in good light with excellent reach for bird shots. As the light fades, and your ISO starts to climb, IQ will start to fail. ISO 800 or so will probably be your upper limit, depending upon your noise tolerance.

The ZS100 with it's 1" sensor will do better in lower light, as you can crank up the ISO considerably more before the IQ starts to falter. Typical 1" sensor cameras can hit ISO's of 2400 or possibly 3200 before things get iffy. It just does not have the reach.

I think the ZS60 will serve you better for birding.

You need to decide what aspects are most important to you. Or, get one of each.

Excellent analysis Jerry thanks for posting the photo illustrations!

For me I went with the larger sensor and returned the small sensor camera,  however many people here love the smaller sensor. It seems to work best on bright sunny days and I wanted more flexibility than that. the one inch sensor will be much more limited in zoom though.

Or what Jerry said but much more eloquently. Best wishes to you!

adamsdp wrote:

Thanks for the helpful reply! Sounds like the zs60 will do a much better job at the long zoom end compared to any cell phone, especially if cell phone cameras can't keep up in wide angle photos. I would love to be able to find a comparison between IQ of the zs60 and the galaxy s21 at their longer zooms. I think the s21 ultra has a better performing 10x zoom than the standard s21.

Thanks too for the information on cropping and leaning heavily towards ordering the zs60 and giving it a try. With it's longer reach, it does seem like the better choice for bird photography. Are there other advantages to a point and shoot camera like the zs60 compared to a cell phone camera?

The typical cell phone does not have the many options found in a real camera. Your typical camera will have Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Manual mode and usually program mode where you can vary aperture VS shutter speed. You will often have options to bracket, shoot bursts, limit your ISO, change your white balance, scene modes and often the ability to shoot RAW. You can tweak your EV, and lock in your ISO and other options. You can vary your metering mode and your focus spot size. A cell phone is not nearly as versatile.   One other thing is ergonomics. I have much more trouble holding my cell phone steady, but my camera grip is much steadier.

I think cell phones may be perfectly adequate for casual snapshots, but they fall short if you want to do some real photography where you have to fine tune your settings to get the result you want.

If you prefer a 1" sensor I'd recommend the ZS200.

I have a ZS100. I would recommend it for you because it has a larger 1" sensor that will deliver good image quality. This would matter if you make prints larger than 4"x6" for example.

I find the camera quite handy just for walking around because it goes in my jacket pocket with my left hand too.

I do have the feeling that it is extremely fragile, though. No problems so far, and I have had it since last summer. I find the power switch too easy to turn on by accident.

It works well at max zoom for squirrels and so on.

Overall image quality is sensitive to distortion correction applied in the raw developer and in the JPG engine in the camera. At max zoom distortion correction is minimal, but this would be a factor at wide angle or even half zoom.  I use Raw Therapee to develop the raws, because I can turn off distortion correction.

I like it also for family snaps since it has a built in flash that is easy to use.

I got it in a kit for $397:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1244402-REG/panasonic_lumix_dmc_zs100_digital_camera.html

The "silver" one is nice, and only a small part of it is silver.

Here is one of my better ZS100 images (max zoom). Pretty good image quality, I think.

adamsdp wrote:

I am debating about getting a new camera and/or upgrading my phone to get a better camera. I have a DSLR that I rarely carry on walks and would like something small that will fit in a pocket with a zoom for bird photography.

I was originally leaning towards the Lumix zs100 with it's 1" sensor and 10x zoom. It is about the only camera I have found small enough to fit in a pocket with a decent zoom and 1" sensor. The Lumix zs60k has a smaller sensor (1/2.3") but a wider zoom - 30x. The larger sensor of the zs100 seems to have more advantages than the wider zoom of the zs60 in general, but I am thinking that the long zoom of the zs60 will make it a better chioce for bird photography. From what I can gather in reading online, wide angle general purpose photos may come out better from a good phone camera than either of these choices so having the zs60 with it's long zoom may make better sense to complement a cell phone camera.

I don't have a lot of knowledge about cropping, but would cropping images from the zs100 to adjust for the difference in sensor size give the same magnification as from the zs60? If so, would there be disadvantages in doing this?

I will be upgrading my phone in the next year and read reviews of the Galaxy S21 which has three camera sensors - wide angle, 3x and 10x I believe. The broader question, I am wondering is whether either of these camera's are going to be enough of an improvement over a good cell phone camera to justify the purchase. It seems that the longer zooms will be the biggest advantage over a cell phone camera from what I know. Any advice will be appreciated!

If you are going 1” sensor don’t buy the ZS100, go ZS200, it’s the2nd generation and the zoom, handling and features are way in front of the ZS100.

If you shoot in good light the ZS60 is more than adequate for general photography and the handling and zoom range are better than a smartphone. Comments by previous posters about the ability to change settings in a smartphone are woefully misinformed though and there are loads of apps that give you full control over all the settings in a phone camera and then some. If you want a grip then there are many available,. I have an Adonit one but tend not to use it because I’ve adapted to holding a phone. You have to change the way you go about that if you are used to holding a camera. The big missing for birding or anything else really is an evf.

Bottom line, if you want to do any sort of wildlife shots, a ZS60 is way to go because it has 30x optical zoom and you need that for that job.

Dave

I recently bought a demo-version of the HX90V (same type of camera as TZ60) for 50€ as a zoom-complement for Iphone 11. I find it a bit difficult to use in higher zoom ranges up to 720mm. It´s difficult to focus hand-held and maybe I was hoping too much about the picture quality. But I´m still learning and only had it for like four days.

In my part of the world it´s often cloudy and the camera will also be used in the woods with shadows when mountain biking etc.. So maybe I have to rethink my zoom-needs vs picture quality. How is the TZ200 performing at 360-720mm in comparison to these small-sensor zoom-cameras?

Hakana wrote:

I recently bought a demo-version of the HX90V (same type of camera as TZ60) for 50€ as a zoom-complement for Iphone 11. I find it a bit difficult to use in higher zoom ranges up to 720mm. It´s difficult to focus hand-held and maybe I was hoping too much about the picture quality. But I´m still learning and only had it for like four days.

In my part of the world it´s often cloudy and the camera will also be used in the woods with shadows when mountain biking etc.. So maybe I have to rethink my zoom-needs vs picture quality. How is the TZ200 performing at 360-720mm in comparison to these small-sensor zoom-cameras?

Take your time and learn the features of this camera and the basics of photography. In decent light it will provide excellent images. Try to shoot in aperture priority for general landscape and snapshot use and keep the ISO as low as you can.

When you have mastered that, move onto a TZ200 if you still have the desire. It has a much bigger sensor and will provide much improved image quality but at a price. The zoom range will be less too and it only goes to 360mm. If you want the 360-720 range, stick with the Sony!

For any questions related to the HX90V, try posting in the Sony Cybershot forum

Dave