New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
wshooter Forum Member • Posts: 72
New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?

I've been a DPReview member and casual photographer for years and have enjoyed the site but this is my first post (I think).

I've been on a photography hiatus for more than a year and just picked up a z7ii/24-70 kti a week ago with the FTZ adapter in hopes of some inspiration to get out and shoot again. I also purchased a 14-30 z lens and both z lens are amazing compared to my F mount lens for my old crop sensor cameras.

I put the FTZ adapter on and my 5 yo Sigma 150-600m contemporary lens to give it a try. As expected, it's soft compared to the z lenses (and out of focus) but I was hoping someone could help me properly identify the artifacts in the attached image circled in red.

Image was shot @600mm, wide open aperture. The subject was not that far away (maybe 150-200')

Are the double squiggly lines that goes across the image horizontally, an artifact of the DOF, quality of lens, optic misalignment. Or is this what is called moire?

I need help in identifying what it is so I can read more about it and go back and try something else to understand better. I never saw until I got back to my desktop's big screen.

Thanks in advance!

Sigma 150-600 contemporary, 600mm @f/6.3

 wshooter's gear list:wshooter's gear list
Nikon Z6 II Nikon Z7 II Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3 | C Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 +2 more
sirhawkeye64 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,474
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?
3

wshooter wrote:

I've been a DPReview member and casual photographer for years and have enjoyed the site but this is my first post (I think).

I've been on a photography hiatus for more than a year and just picked up a z7ii/24-70 kti a week ago with the FTZ adapter in hopes of some inspiration to get out and shoot again. I also purchased a 14-30 z lens and both z lens are amazing compared to my F mount lens for my old crop sensor cameras.

I put the FTZ adapter on and my 5 yo Sigma 150-600m contemporary lens to give it a try. As expected, it's soft compared to the z lenses (and out of focus) but I was hoping someone could help me properly identify the artifacts in the attached image circled in red.

Image was shot @600mm, wide open aperture. The subject was not that far away (maybe 150-200')

Are the double squiggly lines that goes across the image horizontally, an artifact of the DOF, quality of lens, optic misalignment. Or is this what is called moire?

I need help in identifying what it is so I can read more about it and go back and try something else to understand better. I never saw until I got back to my desktop's big screen.

Thanks in advance!

Sigma 150-600 contemporary, 600mm @f/6.3

I'm thinking this is related to the lens, and more specifically, DOF.  What settings were you at when shot this?  Based on the out of focus areas, I'd just say that it's DOF.

Generally moire is found in repeating patterns like clothing or feathers but I don't think that's the case here. This I don't think is an issue with the camera though...

 sirhawkeye64's gear list:sirhawkeye64's gear list
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Karl Huber Regular Member • Posts: 404
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?
2

wshooter wrote:

I've been a DPReview member and casual photographer for years and have enjoyed the site but this is my first post (I think).

I've been on a photography hiatus for more than a year and just picked up a z7ii/24-70 kti a week ago with the FTZ adapter in hopes of some inspiration to get out and shoot again. I also purchased a 14-30 z lens and both z lens are amazing compared to my F mount lens for my old crop sensor cameras.

I put the FTZ adapter on and my 5 yo Sigma 150-600m contemporary lens to give it a try. As expected, it's soft compared to the z lenses (and out of focus) but I was hoping someone could help me properly identify the artifacts in the attached image circled in red.

Image was shot @600mm, wide open aperture. The subject was not that far away (maybe 150-200')

Are the double squiggly lines that goes across the image horizontally, an artifact of the DOF, quality of lens, optic misalignment. Or is this what is called moire?

I need help in identifying what it is so I can read more about it and go back and try something else to understand better. I never saw until I got back to my desktop's big screen.

Thanks in advance!

Sigma 150-600 contemporary, 600mm @f/6.3

I experienced a similar phenomenon with a Sigma 50-500mm lens on a Nikon D800E. It appears it was the optical stabilisation at fault in that case. With OS off, the weird effect disappeared.

 Karl Huber's gear list:Karl Huber's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Sony RX100 Nikon 1 V1 Olympus PEN E-P5 Nikon D850 +23 more
OP wshooter Forum Member • Posts: 72
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?
2

I am guessing it is the lens as well and the way the ground is slopped with a narrow depth of field. I had the aperture wide open @f/6.3 so as narrow DOF as is gets.

Here is a shot I took tonight with the same setup and it looks pretty good with the tree and eagle in the relatively same focal plane.

Thanks for the input.  I really appreciate it.

Local neighborhood eagle preying

 wshooter's gear list:wshooter's gear list
Nikon Z6 II Nikon Z7 II Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3 | C Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 +2 more
Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 7,529
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?
1

Focus on the eagle looks good but sometimes it is missing focus?  Most F mount lenses focus perfect on a Z body.

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Qbalion
Qbalion Contributing Member • Posts: 577
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?
2

Could it be a moire effect because of the specific conditions, shallow DoF, and lack of AA filter in Z7?

Edit: after a closer look it seems that parts of the image are kind of doubled which could be caused by a side effect of the lens VR...

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LHMF Regular Member • Posts: 102
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?
1

If it is moiree (I d'ont think so - looks more to DOF) take a software (Nikon or the Filter from NIk - Define) and play with the moiree slider. If it is moiree there will be an effect.

ericbowles
ericbowles Senior Member • Posts: 1,357
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?
1

Karl Huber wrote:

wshooter wrote:

I experienced a similar phenomenon with a Sigma 50-500mm lens on a Nikon D800E. It appears it was the optical stabilisation at fault in that case. With OS off, the weird effect disappeared.

I agree with Karl - it looks like an issue with stabilization in the edge of the out of focus area.  At 100% I see a definite repetition of detail in the image.

At 1/500 sec and higher, you probably want to evaluate whether you use stabilization or not.  Steve Perry has done some work on VR and when to use it.  He found a great degree of variation by lens as to when to use VR or turn it off.   Some lenses showed issues at 1/500 sec while others never seemed to show issues.

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Smitty2 Regular Member • Posts: 106
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?
1

Is the Optical Stabilization enabled on the lens?

Abhay Parvate Forum Member • Posts: 50
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?
2

This could be a mirage, and may not have anything to do with the lens. The scale of the pattern is pretty large compared with the pixel size. Also you are pretty low near the ground lit by direct sunlight. Just guessing.

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OP wshooter Forum Member • Posts: 72
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?

Ernie Misner wrote:

Focus on the eagle looks good but sometimes it is missing focus? Most F mount lenses focus perfect on a Z body.

When I first started using it yes but I had used FoCal to calibrate the Sigma to my D7200 a couple of years ago. Once I set all of the focus settings back to default, it works much better but I agree that my F mount lenses are not as accurate focusing as the Z lenses. They are slower too.

Qbalion wrote:

Could it be a moire effect because of the specific conditions, shallow DoF, and lack of AA filter in Z7?

Edit: after a closer look it seems that parts of the image are kind of doubled which could be caused by a side effect of the lens VR...

I never even thought about VR but you know, that is a good thought. I have IBIS turned on in the camera and VR on the lens turned on and they may not play well together. They is something I will play around with. Thanks.

LHMF wrote:

If it is moiree (I d'ont think so - looks more to DOF) take a software (Nikon or the Filter from NIk - Define) and play with the moiree slider. If it is moiree there will be an effect.

Just tried that in NX-D and it didn't make a difference so that is a good tip to check for moire. Thanks.

ericbowles wrote:

Karl Huber wrote:

wshooter wrote:

I agree with Karl - it looks like an issue with stabilization in the edge of the out of focus area. At 100% I see a definite repetition of detail in the image.

At 1/500 sec and higher, you probably want to evaluate whether you use stabilization or not. Steve Perry has done some work on VR and when to use it. He found a great degree of variation by lens as to when to use VR or turn it off. Some lenses showed issues at 1/500 sec while others never seemed to show issues.

It never dawned on me it could be VR but that I appreciate the feedback. I found Steve Perry's channel when looking for how to set up the z7ii and found him to be a straight shooter and knowledgeable. I'll look for that video and watch. Thanks so much.

Smitty2 wrote:

Is the Optical Stabilization enabled on the lens?

Yes it was, on camera AND on the lens. As others mentioned above, that may be the culprit and will something I will start playing with after watching Steve Perry's vid.

Abhay Parvate wrote:

This could be a mirage, and may not have anything to do with the lens. The scale of the pattern is pretty large compared with the pixel size. Also you are pretty low near the ground lit by direct sunlight. Just guessing.

That is another good observation.  We have had freezing cold temps for a couple of weeks prior and this was the first 50F day and since I was shooting along a long sloping hillside, it could have been a temperature wave (or what ever they are called).  Something else I would have never thought of.  Thanks!

To all:

Wow, I must say that for my first post, you all have really been great at helping me identify some possibilities that I would otherwise not have thought about.  I've been away from photography since 2019 and since I got the z7ii, I have been reinspired to shoot again.   Thanks for the help!

 wshooter's gear list:wshooter's gear list
Nikon Z6 II Nikon Z7 II Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3 | C Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 +2 more
OP wshooter Forum Member • Posts: 72
Re: New z7ii owner but what are these image artifacts from my Sigma 150-600?

Karl Huber wrote:

I experienced a similar phenomenon with a Sigma 50-500mm lens on a Nikon D800E. It appears it was the optical stabilisation at fault in that case. With OS off, the weird effect disappeared.

After re-reading the post and comments again, I realized that you were the first to mention the possible stabilization issue.  I don't know how a Sigma stabilization and IBIS works together but that is something I am going to play with next.  I really appreciate your input!

 wshooter's gear list:wshooter's gear list
Nikon Z6 II Nikon Z7 II Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3 | C Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 +2 more
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