Regular Sensor/B&W Setting

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Leica Eye
Leica Eye Veteran Member • Posts: 3,349
Regular Sensor/B&W Setting

Aloha, so if I set my digital to record B&W - should I use filters as per when we used B&W film?    Regards, L

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Kevner Contributing Member • Posts: 639
Re: Regular Sensor/B&W Setting
1

Greetings Leica Eye,

I believe the answer to this is, no.  The in camera black and white conversion is a processing algorithm and converts color to grayscale differently than how film "saw" light.  The algorithm reads a full color spectrum first and then processes the image.  This is different from how film recorded light and the colored filters adapted for film would affect the entire color image that the sensor records.

I'm sure others will be more knowledgable than me on this.

Kk

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Leica Eye
OP Leica Eye Veteran Member • Posts: 3,349
Re: Regular Sensor/B&W Setting

Kevner wrote:

Greetings Leica Eye,

I believe the answer to this is, no. The in camera black and white conversion is a processing algorithm and converts color to grayscale differently than how film "saw" light. The algorithm reads a full color spectrum first and then processes the image. This is different from how film recorded light and the colored filters adapted for film would affect the entire color image that the sensor records.

I'm sure others will be more knowledgable than me on this.

Kk

I very much appreciate your help. Regards, L

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clouseau
clouseau Senior Member • Posts: 1,361
Re: Regular Sensor/B&W Setting

To be frank I have never tried to set my DSLR to B&W. I just prefer to chose myself the pictures I think will fit well in gray scale and pp to my taste.

Never the less it may be worth the try and experiment...

pierre.

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Leica Eye
OP Leica Eye Veteran Member • Posts: 3,349
Re: Regular Sensor/B&W Setting
2

clouseau wrote:

To be frank I have never tried to set my DSLR to B&W. I just prefer to chose myself the pictures I think will fit well in gray scale and pp to my taste.

Never the less it may be worth the try and experiment...

pierre.

Aloha, I was going to set the 90D up for B&W - I need to get out a bit more, the local gardens/surroundings have been worked and worked.. Take Care L

Madame Monsieur, nous n'avons qu'une table disponible

It's those burgers! --

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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 16,807
Re: Regular Sensor/B&W Setting
2

Leica Eye wrote:

Aloha, so if I set my digital to record B&W - should I use filters as per when we used B&W film?

Well, color digital cameras have built-in red, green, and blue filters, and in combination yellow, magenta, and cyan. So additional color filters typically won’t add anything, and may even be counterproductive.

I find it useful to shoot with the camera set to monochrome mode, which helps visualization, but as I’m shooting raw, all the color channels are preserved, allowing me more control over the conversion process.

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Leica Eye
OP Leica Eye Veteran Member • Posts: 3,349
Re: Regular Sensor/B&W Setting

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Leica Eye wrote:

Aloha, so if I set my digital to record B&W - should I use filters as per when we used B&W film?

Well, color digital cameras have built-in red, green, and blue filters, and in combination yellow, magenta, and cyan. So additional color filters typically won’t add anything, and may even be counterproductive.

I find it useful to shoot with the camera set to monochrome mode, which helps visualization, but as I’m shooting raw, all the color channels are preserved, allowing me more control over the conversion process.

Aloha, thank you for your very informative info..  Regards, L

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Kevner Contributing Member • Posts: 639
Re: Regular Sensor/B&W Setting

Greetings Again, Leica Eye.

Thinking about this further and reading some of the other comments, I believe the use of a colored filter would largely render the RAW files unusable without recorrecting the color.

As it happens, I still have my full range of B&W filters step up rings and will run a test on my A7R2 tomorrow to illustrate how the camera reads filtered light.

Gives me something to do.

Kk

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Leica Eye
OP Leica Eye Veteran Member • Posts: 3,349
Re: Regular Sensor/B&W Setting

Kevner wrote:

Greetings Again, Leica Eye.

Thinking about this further and reading some of the other comments, I believe the use of a colored filter would largely render the RAW files unusable without recorrecting the color.

As it happens, I still have my full range of B&W filters step up rings and will run a test on my A7R2 tomorrow to illustrate how the camera reads filtered light.

Gives me something to do.

Kk

Aloha Kk - I'm going to set up my 90D to B&W.. I don't use filters so it's down to PP.. In Monochrome/Menu my 90D has different filters I can select!! Take Care L

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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 16,807
Re: Regular Sensor/B&W Setting

Leica Eye wrote:

I'm going to set up my 90D to B&W.. I don't use filters so it's down to PP.. In Monochrome/Menu my 90D has different filters I can select!!

Good luck! I think my latest camera has that feature. Let us know how it works for you!

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Kevner Contributing Member • Posts: 639
Filter Tests

Here you go, Leica Eye.  Sony A7R2 set to full tone B&W.  First thing, the filters do affect the image but not in the same way as film.  You could probably find some usefulness with filters although it would take some practice to figure out what filters had what affects on the images.  Hope this helps.  All images are OOC other than resizing.

Kk

Base Image Shot with No Filter

Blue 42 Filter.  On film would have completely blown out the sky.

FL-D  Filter.  Used to correct indoor yellow lighting.

Green 11 Filter.

Orange G Filter.

Red 25 Filter.  The similarity between this and Blue 42 is striking

Yellow 8 Filter.

Yellow Green Filter

My old field pack for B&W.

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Leica Eye
OP Leica Eye Veteran Member • Posts: 3,349
Re: Filter Tests

Kevner wrote:

Here you go, Leica Eye. Sony A7R2 set to full tone B&W. First thing, the filters do affect the image but not in the same way as film. You could probably find some usefulness with filters although it would take some practice to figure out what filters had what affects on the images. Hope this helps. All images are OOC other than resizing.

Kk

Base Image Shot with No Filter

Blue 42 Filter. On film would have completely blown out the sky.

FL-D Filter. Used to correct indoor yellow lighting.

Green 11 Filter.

Orange G Filter.

Red 25 Filter. The similarity between this and Blue 42 is striking

Yellow 8 Filter.

Yellow Green Filter

My old field pack for B&W.

Cool images - I think I will have to as you say - experiment with different Filters on the 90D and use the PP to further vary the OOC image .. Many Thanks for the Info..  (As they say, the more I know the less I know)..          Regards, L

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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 16,807
Re: Filter Tests

Kevner wrote:

Sony A7R2 set to full tone B&W. First thing, the filters do affect the image but not in the same way as film. You could probably find some usefulness with filters although it would take some practice to figure out what filters had what affects on the images.

Thanks for doing this, it wasn't at all what I expected.

I think that the approach for doing this would be shooting raw and then calibrating the camera+filter combination to create a raw processing profile that would match some expected outcome, which seems like a lot of work to achieve an outcome that could be done easier some other way.

But I do know of one photographer who uses a magenta filter for daylight color photography in order to balance the red and blue color channels, having them closely match the response of the green, in order to get cleaner images; this does require custom calibration as well.

I think Leica Eye has a good idea of using the camera's built-in filter simulations. I just checked, and my D750 has built-in red, orange, yellow, and green filters, and I'm a bit disappointed that it does not have blue, but of course that's easy to simulate with raw.

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Leica Eye
OP Leica Eye Veteran Member • Posts: 3,349
Re: Filter Tests

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Kevner wrote:

Sony A7R2 set to full tone B&W. First thing, the filters do affect the image but not in the same way as film. You could probably find some usefulness with filters although it would take some practice to figure out what filters had what affects on the images.

Thanks for doing this, it wasn't at all what I expected.

I think that the approach for doing this would be shooting raw and then calibrating the camera+filter combination to create a raw processing profile that would match some expected outcome, which seems like a lot of work to achieve an outcome that could be done easier some other way.

But I do know of one photographer who uses a magenta filter for daylight color photography in order to balance the red and blue color channels, having them closely match the response of the green, in order to get cleaner images; this does require custom calibration as well.

I think Leica Eye has a good idea of using the camera's built-in filter simulations. I just checked, and my D750 has built-in red, orange, yellow, and green filters, and I'm a bit disappointed that it does not have blue, but of course that's easy to simulate with raw.

Digital B&W is a whole new field that needs lots of trial & error. From what I've done so far, even slightly different scenes/lighting need individual attention.. So many settings available for just 1 shot.. Somehow, I think unless you have unlimited time for taking and then PP, converting Color to B&W & then PP will suffice maybe 90% of situations.. Or maybe just go buy and use a Monochrome, but that surely must still incur all the Filter & other decisions/settings!! .. L

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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 16,807
Re: Filter Tests

Leica Eye wrote:

Digital B&W is a whole new field that needs lots of trial & error. From what I've done so far, even slightly different scenes/lighting need individual attention.. So many settings available for just 1 shot.

My D750 has so many settings that I'm not aware of many, such as my camera having built-in monochrome filter settings.

But theory and practice makes such settings selections far easier so that they become second nature. For example, if there is a rich blue sky with fluffy clouds then I'd go with a red filter to darken the sky and enhance the clouds.

Somehow, I think unless you have unlimited time for taking and then PP, converting Color to B&W & then PP will suffice maybe 90% of situations..

I agree.

Or maybe just go buy and use a Monochrome, but that surely must still incur all the Filter & other decisions/settings!! .. L

I would like to find a discarded Leica Q2 Monochrom! And yes, color filters might be interesting with that camera.

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Leica Eye
OP Leica Eye Veteran Member • Posts: 3,349
Re: Q2 Monochrome
1

Just spoke with Leica Store Miami, using the Q2M is exactly like using a B&W film - Filters go in front of the Lens..

kerching kerching kerching ~

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