X-E4 command dial

I know there are many threads bashing Fuji for various design decisions on the X-E4. This isn't one of them, but I am a little confused. The rear command dial was implemented on the X100 and X100S models, and then the front dial was added later. I use the rear dial quite a bit, and the front dial almost never. So, it seems strange to me to keep only the front dial. Is the idea to move everything the rear dial used to do to the front, or do most people already use the front dial more?

From an aesthetic standpoint, I would have thought that simplifying and cleaning up the look would have meant eliminating the dial on the front, not the back.

Either way, I can live with one dial, just as I did with the X100S. Just curious if you all see some logic I don't in this decision.

On my XT2, XE3 and X100V, I rely on both the front and back dials. I do not understand the logic of removing either of these dials from the XE4. One step forward, two steps back.

Don Davis wrote:

I know there are many threads bashing Fuji for various design decisions on the X-E4. This isn't one of them, but I am a little confused. The rear command dial was implemented on the X100 and X100S models, and then the front dial was added later. I use the rear dial quite a bit, and the front dial almost never. So, it seems strange to me to keep only the front dial. Is the idea to move everything the rear dial used to do to the front, or do most people already use the front dial more?

From an aesthetic standpoint, I would have thought that simplifying and cleaning up the look would have meant eliminating the dial on the front, not the back.

Either way, I can live with one dial, just as I did with the X100S. Just curious if you all see some logic I don't in this decision.

I use both dials, the front dial for almost every shot for exposure compensation (EC dial in “C” mode). I honestly don’t see the logic in removing any dials/buttons/features from a previous model that people have come to rely on. I have three Fuji cameras, all of which are set up as similarly as possible so I can pick up and use any of them without having to do any mental gymnastics adjusting to different control arrangements. I like(d) Fuji cameras especially because the external controls could be configured for various shooting scenarios without ever having to dive into a menu, but all that is out the window with these newer dumbed down and/or completely redesigned models. I get that Fuji wants to appeal more to PASM and novice shooters, but alienating their longtime core customers is just dumb IMO. The more Fujis become like other cameras, the more I want one of those other cameras.

matcha wrote:

I suspect is to accommodate the thumbrest accessory. If there is a rear dial, it would be blocked.

That makes sense - thanks

I have a X-E1 which has only a rear command dial. I'm constantly pressing it in, to get focus magnification (I mostly use manual lenses).

It will be much easier to use the X-E4 front dial with the camera up to my face while I am looking into the EVF. So, I'm glad about that dial being in the front.

Of course, I have to verify that it will still work with non-electronic manual lenses. For that, I need to download and read a manual.  It is still unavailable here:

https://fujifilm-x.com/global/support/manual/cameras/

I much refer the front dial on my X100V to its rear dial as I can turn it easily while holding the camera with one hand because; my thumb rests bet the shutter speed and exposure comp dials and I turn it with my index finger.

I am happy they removed it and relocated the Q button ..... along with removing the focus switch on the front. Having a X-E3 they get accidently bumped frequently. No more issues there. If you are controlling aperture from the lens and shutter speed from the front dial the function button on top for iso along with customizing the 4 way swipe of the screen for what you prefer..... plus use of the joystick ....... How much more control would you really need ? In fact all of that without even dropping the camera from your eye . A press of the Q button will get you to whatever else maybe needed. I think they nailed it.

The only logical explanation for me - is providing clear large space for more comfortable grip. From other functionality perspectives it is definitely a step back, which I'll most likely just get used to.

Tom Schum wrote:

I have a X-E1 which has only a rear command dial. I'm constantly pressing it in, to get focus magnification (I mostly use manual lenses).

It will be much easier to use the X-E4 front dial with the camera up to my face while I am looking into the EVF. So, I'm glad about that dial being in the front.

Of course, I have to verify that it will still work with non-electronic manual lenses. For that, I need to download and read a manual. It is still unavailable here:

https://fujifilm-x.com/global/support/manual/cameras/

I'm also primarily manual lens shooter. Was hoping AF/EL can be assigned to focus magnification, but after you mentioned there is a hope it can be done with a front dial, so fingers crossed.

matcha wrote:

I suspect is to accommodate the thumbrest accessory. If there is a rear dial, it would be blocked.

Well, yes but in so doing it appears that they have made hitting the Q button, partly now obscured by the thumb rest, far more difficult. This is the impression I have gained from the images, but of course, only physical handling will confirm either way.

Early Morning Blackibird wrote:

I am happy they removed it and relocated the Q button ..... along with removing the focus switch on the front. Having a X-E3 they get accidently bumped frequently. No more issues there. If you are controlling aperture from the lens and shutter speed from the front dial the function button on top for iso along with customizing the 4 way swipe of the screen for what you prefer..... plus use of the joystick ....... How much more control would you really need ? In fact all of that without even dropping the camera from your eye . A press of the Q button will get you to whatever else maybe needed. I think they nailed it.

I use the MCS switch for instantly changing focus modes without a menu dive and without removing my eye from the finder. The front dial is ideal for real-time exposure compensation adjustment/ISO adjustment - again, without removing my eye from the finder. The rear dial is ideal for SS adjustment in “T” mode and Focus Assist/magnification adjustment - also without removing my eye from the finder. If folks only want minimal control over shooting parameters, that’s fine with me, but those folks can disable most of the options if they so choose. People who desire more control are screwed if all those physical controls are removed. Sucks if you ask me. It’s not like this is an all new model, it’s a crippled devolved version of a far more capable series of cameras.

Don Davis wrote:

I know there are many threads bashing Fuji for various design decisions on the X-E4. This isn't one of them, but I am a little confused. The rear command dial was implemented on the X100 and X100S models, and then the front dial was added later. I use the rear dial quite a bit, and the front dial almost never. So, it seems strange to me to keep only the front dial. Is the idea to move everything the rear dial used to do to the front, or do most people already use the front dial more?

From an aesthetic standpoint, I would have thought that simplifying and cleaning up the look would have meant eliminating the dial on the front, not the back.

Either way, I can live with one dial, just as I did with the X100S. Just curious if you all see some logic I don't in this decision.

I am more interested in ergonomics than aesthetics. I use the XE3 with many different lenses, most having an aperture ring, such as the Fujicrons f2s.  But one lens I use a lot when out with the family is the excellent XC 16-50, which like all XC lenses, it has no aperture ring. On the XE3, I adjust aperture using the rear dial, which is intuitive, quick and effective.

I use the front dial principally for exposure compensation (by setting the EC dial to 'c'). With this set up my thumb can set aperture on a XC lens (I tend to use aperture priority) and my forefinger can set exposure compensation concurrently. It is intuitive, fast and effective,

The front dial can adjust EC, ISO and Shutter Speed, but one has to toggle through each to get to the desired one in order to set it. If aperture on XC lenses is also to be set using the front dial, and I do not know yet as the XE4 manual is not available, then that is four toggles, which is a backwards step. Therefore, if one has the set both aperture and EC on the one dial, one has to go round the four bazars constantly to get to the two settings on wants, which is far slower than on a camera that has a rear command dial.

Could I live with it? if  I do get the XE4, which before launch I was keen to do, but which I am now on the fence, yes, but it is a backward step to being an intuitive, fast and effective way to adjust primary settings for which Fuji is renowned.

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Don Davis wrote:

I know there are many threads bashing Fuji for various design decisions on the X-E4. This isn't one of them, but I am a little confused. The rear command dial was implemented on the X100 and X100S models, and then the front dial was added later. I use the rear dial quite a bit, and the front dial almost never. So, it seems strange to me to keep only the front dial. Is the idea to move everything the rear dial used to do to the front, or do most people already use the front dial more?

From an aesthetic standpoint, I would have thought that simplifying and cleaning up the look would have meant eliminating the dial on the front, not the back.

Either way, I can live with one dial, just as I did with the X100S. Just curious if you all see some logic I don't in this decision.

I use both dials, the front dial for almost every shot for exposure compensation (EC dial in “C” mode). I honestly don’t see the logic in removing any dials/buttons/features from a previous model that people have come to rely on. I have three Fuji cameras, all of which are set up as similarly as possible so I can pick up and use any of them without having to do any mental gymnastics adjusting to different control arrangements. I like(d) Fuji cameras especially because the external controls could be configured for various shooting scenarios without ever having to dive into a menu, but all that is out the window with these newer dumbed down and/or completely redesigned models. I get that Fuji wants to appeal more to PASM and novice shooters, but alienating their longtime core customers is just dumb IMO. The more Fujis become like other cameras, the more I want one of those other cameras.

I pre-ordered an X-E4 for a possible travel option. My X-T3 is my main camera body when I need it for that extra control. So hopefully the X-E4 will be more of a fun travel option. As one reviewer put it "How many buttons do you really need to take a picture?"

I think I will be able to get by with setting the EC to the front dial as you say (same as I do on my XT3), the ISO to the top plate function button, and the M/S/C functionality to the AE/AF button, if all of that is possible. Can't find a copy of the manual yet to confirm.

I usually use the AF/manual focus assist mode of focusing while holding a half press on the shutter, which can also often negate the need for M/S/C.

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Early Morning Blackibird wrote:

I am happy they removed it and relocated the Q button ..... along with removing the focus switch on the front. Having a X-E3 they get accidently bumped frequently. No more issues there. If you are controlling aperture from the lens and shutter speed from the front dial the function button on top for iso along with customizing the 4 way swipe of the screen for what you prefer..... plus use of the joystick ....... How much more control would you really need ? In fact all of that without even dropping the camera from your eye . A press of the Q button will get you to whatever else maybe needed. I think they nailed it.

I use the MCS switch for instantly changing focus modes without a menu dive and without removing my eye from the finder. The front dial is ideal for real-time exposure compensation adjustment/ISO adjustment - again, without removing my eye from the finder. The rear dial is ideal for SS adjustment in “T” mode and Focus Assist/magnification adjustment - also without removing my eye from the finder. If folks only want minimal control over shooting parameters, that’s fine with me, but those folks can disable most of the options if they so choose. People who desire more control are screwed if all those physical controls are removed. Sucks if you ask me. It’s not like this is an all new model, it’s a crippled devolved version of a far more capable series of cameras.

If you are making that many bizarre changes to take a photo ........ you were not prepared for the shot or dialed for the situation to begin with. There will be many photographers who will use it with great results ..... that I am sure of.

Early Morning Blackibird wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Sucks if you ask me. It’s not like this is an all new model, it’s a crippled devolved version of a far more capable series of cameras.

If you are making that many bizarre changes to take a photo ........ you were not prepared for the shot or dialed for the situation to begin with. There will be many photographers who will use it with great results ..... that I am sure of.

Still, I see his point.  My guess is more things move back to two or three button clicks deep, making the adjustments less accessible.  For some people this is a real handicap.

Early Morning Blackibird wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Early Morning Blackibird wrote:

I am happy they removed it and relocated the Q button ..... along with removing the focus switch on the front. Having a X-E3 they get accidently bumped frequently. No more issues there. If you are controlling aperture from the lens and shutter speed from the front dial the function button on top for iso along with customizing the 4 way swipe of the screen for what you prefer..... plus use of the joystick ....... How much more control would you really need ? In fact all of that without even dropping the camera from your eye . A press of the Q button will get you to whatever else maybe needed. I think they nailed it.

I use the MCS switch for instantly changing focus modes without a menu dive and without removing my eye from the finder. The front dial is ideal for real-time exposure compensation adjustment/ISO adjustment - again, without removing my eye from the finder. The rear dial is ideal for SS adjustment in “T” mode and Focus Assist/magnification adjustment - also without removing my eye from the finder. If folks only want minimal control over shooting parameters, that’s fine with me, but those folks can disable most of the options if they so choose. People who desire more control are screwed if all those physical controls are removed. Sucks if you ask me. It’s not like this is an all new model, it’s a crippled devolved version of a far more capable series of cameras.

If you are making that many bizarre changes to take a photo ........ you were not prepared for the shot or dialed for the situation to begin with. There will be many photographers who will use it with great results ..... that I am sure of.

Bizarre changes, really? The point of having multiple control options at your fingertips is so it’s quick and easy to dial in any necessary changes both before and while actively shooting without menu diving. Most times, I simply have to adjust my aperture and tweak EC on the front dial (if necessary), but I can adapt to and expose for pretty much any exposure/focusing scenario in a split second without ever removing my eye from the viewfinder. Nothing bizarre here, just using the camera as efficiently as possible to obtain results that are well focused and exposed as possible. IMO, not making good use of good features is bizarre.

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Bizarre changes, really? The point of having multiple control options at your fingertips is so it’s quick and easy to dial in any necessary changes both before and while actively shooting without menu diving.

For me, this statememgt is on target.

jhorse wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Bizarre changes, really? The point of having multiple control options at your fingertips is so it’s quick and easy to dial in any necessary changes both before and while actively shooting without menu diving.

For me, this statememgt is on target.

Then again in my original response I mentioned at least 7 ways to control functions  minus the buttons across the top back which most likely will be able to map . To many people complaining over a dial and ibis. If it doesn't work for you move on no need to bash it ...... most probably never had intentions of buying it anyway.