Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

Started 3 months ago | Wanted
guitarjeff
guitarjeff Senior Member • Posts: 1,830
Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

WHAT A NIGHTMARE.

Forum member Porschebeach and I attempted a transaction that has gone crazy. We need advice and maybe others can learn some precautions to take here when selling and buying. I am a long time member who has several deals that went great in the past. Dennis has been a member since last year and I believe him to be honest as well.

So here is the story.

Sold my Fuji 18-55 to Dennis here on this forum. He paid using Paypal transaction. I packed my lens well, bubble wrap and made sure it was secure, no moving around in the box. I copied his address from his PM, then went to Paypal and the transaction to confirm he had not made a mistake and his Paypal address was the exact same. I copied that to my yellow notes on my phone so I knew it was exactly as he typed it.

I go to the post office, I make out the priority mail stage and I told the clerk I was worried about my writing but she said she could read it fine, then she held out her electronic board to let me confirm she got it right and she had it correct, I matched it on my yellow notes app. I insured for 200 dollars, I sold it to Dennis for 210 so I could get some help on the shipping.

So, never having a problem with priority mail, I go back home and make my next lens purchase, and I use Paypal to avoid having to sign up another card with Ebay, but of course I had the money for it on my card and I of course knew to make sure and keep enough to refund Dennis on my debit card just in case anything went wrong.

WELL LOW AND BEHOLD. The package goes out for delivery to Dennis, his mail carrier obviously got the package, and Dennis emails me and says there is an exception and I check and sure enough, the tracking says there is INCOMPLETE address. return to sender. Strange, I verified the address was correct, and the clerk got it correct so just doing the scanning thing should show the proper address even if the physical address on the box got messed up. I was stunned. But, I had signed up for email tracking updates and THEY STOPPED, the package went missing. I filed a find thing on the post office site and a couple days later I finally get one saying the package was being returned.

Now, I keep getting these same email tracking things. I'll copy one here.

"

Hello Jeff Stewart,

Your package will arrive later than expected, but is still on its way. It is currently in transit to the next facility."

Then I get this email last night from the Texas post office.

Dear Jeffrey Stewart,

This is in response to your inquiry regarding the delivery of a package. Please accept our sincere apology for any inconvenience this matter may have caused you.

The Postal Service is aware of the frustration and disappointment caused when we do not live up to our commitment of safe and reliable mail service.

I researched your package inquiry, and our system shows the package is being returned to you. The package made it to the Dallas distribution center on 1/17/2021. You can keep track of the package by going to USPS.com, to track the package.

An apology is no substitute for good service, but I want to offer one on behalf of the Postal Service. We appreciate your reporting this matter to us. It helps to know the kinds of difficulties our customers have so we can work toward improvements. The information you have provided will be shared with management as they continue their efforts to improve service performance in your area.

Thank you for the opportunity to address this matter with you. If you have any questions, please contact me.

Sincerely,

Chanda Cole

Supervisor Customer Services

But all I get are the tracking that just say it will be late but it's on the way, no locations of the package.

Dennis has been understanding.  We have been waiting for over a week and if the package comes back I can check the lens, make sure it's good to go and resend it.

So Dennis ask me today by text if I have any update, though I had added him to get emails also on the tracking.  He thinks it may be lost in a loop or something.

So I tell him, no need in you having to go through this, I'll just go to Paypal and do you a refund and just wait for the lens to come home and ill file my insurance claim if it is broken or if I never get it at all.   He said that would be great.

I go to Paypal and choose to refund and it says I don't have the funds to refund, I thought it would allow me to just send the refund from my debit card and the case would be closed and then I would handle the rest.  But no, it won't let me give him a refund because it won't just take the money off the card, it has to be in my Paypal account.

I figure, alright, so, like an idiot I do a google search for a Paypal customer service DO NOT EVER DO THIS.  Some guy answered fast and wanted me to download an app to my phone that would allow him to take control of it.  OMG.  I couldn't figure it out and then he wanted me to go WITH HIM ON THE PHONE to my nere by Dollar Gen store and buy a Google card and put 200 on it and he would help me get it up to my Paypal account.  I finally hung up on him, he kept trying to call me back, he even threatened to suspend my Paypal account for 90 days if I didn't do what he said.  When he tried that I knew then that no way Paypal would threaten me like that.  So I hung up, looked it up on the Paypal forum and sure enough, others have been ripped off just like this.  Thank God I didn't go through with this.

So anyway, I have the money on my debit to refund Dennis, but if I refund him just sending a normal paypal payment, I can use my card for that, then I will be stuck with an outstanding Paypal transaction and they could come back in a moth and just EXTRACT 200 dollars off my card and I would be screwed.

I asked Dennis to see if he could cancel the Paypal transaction as delivered and then I would just send the money to him, and I would be stuck with all the fees of sending him money plus whatever fees Paypal would charge me on the original deal.  I could be out 30 dollars or so.

But as he should, Dennis doesn't want to just cancel the deal as delivered because he would then be having to hope I would send the money back.  I could rip him off (Though I think he knows I wouldn't), but in that case I would have a bunch of fees to pay.   And of course, I can't just send him his money and leave an open transaction that could cause me to lose 200.

So I can't use my debit to add money to my Paypal, I don't have a bank account, I use greendot.  They used to let me put money on my Paypal with a moneypack card, but they no longer allow this.

So the only last thing I can think of is to have Dennis just file for a refund through Paypal and maybe in that case they will just extract it from my card, which is what I want, and they would close the transaction.

I am sure Dennis is honest but of course all kinds of things run through your mind, did he really get the lens, fill the box with some rocks and mess u the address and take it back to the post office?  Of course I don't believe this for a second, besides, had it been delivered they would have scanned it in and it would have tracked as delivered, so I know his mail man actually had it out for delivery and he should have been able to just scan it to see the right address.

Now, it is SUPPOSEDLY on it's way back to me but the trajing never says where, and how do I know that Dennis, who has my email and such isn't the one sending these emails  to me?  (again, I don't believe this at all and I will of course tell Dennis to come read this post)   He has been patient and I want to give him his refund, I will not spend it so Dennis, we will figure this out, your money is safe and I will figure a way to get it back to you.

I don't blame Dennis for not wanting to close the transaction on Paypal because he would then have to trust that I would send it back to him and not rip him off, and as I said, I would then be stuck for fees too because Paypal would think the transaction went through and he got his lens.

So I will ask Dennis to just file through Paypal for his refund and hopefully they will then just take the money off my debit, which would be fine, and they would close the case, and then I would just have to deal with filing for my insurance or I may get the lens back with no damage and that would be fine too as I can get 250 out of it on Ebay.

So I will have Dennis read this post and I am hoping others may have some advice as well, and also I will have final advice to other sellers, like TAKE A PIC of your package at the post office before you hand it over and show the buyer the address and a pic of the package.  Dennis could have seen that the address was correct.  Now when I get it back, IF I get it back, I will post a pic of the package here and of course to Dennis as well.  I already sent him a pic of my receipt showing it was insured and that it was sent out.

So any advice would be welcome.

FOR SALE STATUS:
Thread open
LOCATION:

View using Google Maps: Monterey, TN, United States

Ed B
Ed B Forum Pro • Posts: 11,161
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

guitarjeff wrote:

WHAT A NIGHTMARE.

Forum member Porschebeach and I attempted a transaction that has gone crazy. We need advice and maybe others can learn some precautions to take here when selling and buying. I am a long time member who has several deals that went great in the past. Dennis has been a member since last year and I believe him to be honest as well.

So here is the story.

Sold my Fuji 18-55 to Dennis here on this forum. He paid using Paypal transaction. I packed my lens well, bubble wrap and made sure it was secure, no moving around in the box. I copied his address from his PM, then went to Paypal and the transaction to confirm he had not made a mistake and his Paypal address was the exact same. I copied that to my yellow notes on my phone so I knew it was exactly as he typed it.

I go to the post office, I make out the priority mail stage and I told the clerk I was worried about my writing but she said she could read it fine, then she held out her electronic board to let me confirm she got it right and she had it correct, I matched it on my yellow notes app. I insured for 200 dollars, I sold it to Dennis for 210 so I could get some help on the shipping.

So, never having a problem with priority mail, I go back home and make my next lens purchase, and I use Paypal to avoid having to sign up another card with Ebay, but of course I had the money for it on my card and I of course knew to make sure and keep enough to refund Dennis on my debit card just in case anything went wrong.

WELL LOW AND BEHOLD. The package goes out for delivery to Dennis, his mail carrier obviously got the package, and Dennis emails me and says there is an exception and I check and sure enough, the tracking says there is INCOMPLETE address. return to sender. Strange, I verified the address was correct, and the clerk got it correct so just doing the scanning thing should show the proper address even if the physical address on the box got messed up. I was stunned. But, I had signed up for email tracking updates and THEY STOPPED, the package went missing. I filed a find thing on the post office site and a couple days later I finally get one saying the package was being returned.

Now, I keep getting these same email tracking things. I'll copy one here.

"

Hello Jeff Stewart,

Your package will arrive later than expected, but is still on its way. It is currently in transit to the next facility."

Then I get this email last night from the Texas post office.

Dear Jeffrey Stewart,

This is in response to your inquiry regarding the delivery of a package. Please accept our sincere apology for any inconvenience this matter may have caused you.

The Postal Service is aware of the frustration and disappointment caused when we do not live up to our commitment of safe and reliable mail service.

I researched your package inquiry, and our system shows the package is being returned to you. The package made it to the Dallas distribution center on 1/17/2021. You can keep track of the package by going to USPS.com, to track the package.

An apology is no substitute for good service, but I want to offer one on behalf of the Postal Service. We appreciate your reporting this matter to us. It helps to know the kinds of difficulties our customers have so we can work toward improvements. The information you have provided will be shared with management as they continue their efforts to improve service performance in your area.

Thank you for the opportunity to address this matter with you. If you have any questions, please contact me.

Sincerely,

Chanda Cole

Supervisor Customer Services

But all I get are the tracking that just say it will be late but it's on the way, no locations of the package.

Dennis has been understanding. We have been waiting for over a week and if the package comes back I can check the lens, make sure it's good to go and resend it.

So Dennis ask me today by text if I have any update, though I had added him to get emails also on the tracking. He thinks it may be lost in a loop or something.

So I tell him, no need in you having to go through this, I'll just go to Paypal and do you a refund and just wait for the lens to come home and ill file my insurance claim if it is broken or if I never get it at all. He said that would be great.

I go to Paypal and choose to refund and it says I don't have the funds to refund, I thought it would allow me to just send the refund from my debit card and the case would be closed and then I would handle the rest. But no, it won't let me give him a refund because it won't just take the money off the card, it has to be in my Paypal account.

I figure, alright, so, like an idiot I do a google search for a Paypal customer service DO NOT EVER DO THIS. Some guy answered fast and wanted me to download an app to my phone that would allow him to take control of it. OMG. I couldn't figure it out and then he wanted me to go WITH HIM ON THE PHONE to my nere by Dollar Gen store and buy a Google card and put 200 on it and he would help me get it up to my Paypal account. I finally hung up on him, he kept trying to call me back, he even threatened to suspend my Paypal account for 90 days if I didn't do what he said. When he tried that I knew then that no way Paypal would threaten me like that. So I hung up, looked it up on the Paypal forum and sure enough, others have been ripped off just like this. Thank God I didn't go through with this.

So anyway, I have the money on my debit to refund Dennis, but if I refund him just sending a normal paypal payment, I can use my card for that, then I will be stuck with an outstanding Paypal transaction and they could come back in a moth and just EXTRACT 200 dollars off my card and I would be screwed.

I asked Dennis to see if he could cancel the Paypal transaction as delivered and then I would just send the money to him, and I would be stuck with all the fees of sending him money plus whatever fees Paypal would charge me on the original deal. I could be out 30 dollars or so.

But as he should, Dennis doesn't want to just cancel the deal as delivered because he would then be having to hope I would send the money back. I could rip him off (Though I think he knows I wouldn't), but in that case I would have a bunch of fees to pay. And of course, I can't just send him his money and leave an open transaction that could cause me to lose 200.

So I can't use my debit to add money to my Paypal, I don't have a bank account, I use greendot. They used to let me put money on my Paypal with a moneypack card, but they no longer allow this.

So the only last thing I can think of is to have Dennis just file for a refund through Paypal and maybe in that case they will just extract it from my card, which is what I want, and they would close the transaction.

I am sure Dennis is honest but of course all kinds of things run through your mind, did he really get the lens, fill the box with some rocks and mess u the address and take it back to the post office? Of course I don't believe this for a second, besides, had it been delivered they would have scanned it in and it would have tracked as delivered, so I know his mail man actually had it out for delivery and he should have been able to just scan it to see the right address.

Now, it is SUPPOSEDLY on it's way back to me but the trajing never says where, and how do I know that Dennis, who has my email and such isn't the one sending these emails to me? (again, I don't believe this at all and I will of course tell Dennis to come read this post) He has been patient and I want to give him his refund, I will not spend it so Dennis, we will figure this out, your money is safe and I will figure a way to get it back to you.

I don't blame Dennis for not wanting to close the transaction on Paypal because he would then have to trust that I would send it back to him and not rip him off, and as I said, I would then be stuck for fees too because Paypal would think the transaction went through and he got his lens.

So I will ask Dennis to just file through Paypal for his refund and hopefully they will then just take the money off my debit, which would be fine, and they would close the case, and then I would just have to deal with filing for my insurance or I may get the lens back with no damage and that would be fine too as I can get 250 out of it on Ebay.

So I will have Dennis read this post and I am hoping others may have some advice as well, and also I will have final advice to other sellers, like TAKE A PIC of your package at the post office before you hand it over and show the buyer the address and a pic of the package. Dennis could have seen that the address was correct. Now when I get it back, IF I get it back, I will post a pic of the package here and of course to Dennis as well. I already sent him a pic of my receipt showing it was insured and that it was sent out.

So any advice would be welcome.

So, why don't you simply use your debit or credit card, put $210.00 back on your Paypal account, and return the money to Dennis?

Once you get the lens back if Dennis still wants it you can start the process over again.

guitarjeff
OP guitarjeff Senior Member • Posts: 1,830
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

Ed B wrote:

guitarjeff wrote:

WHAT A NIGHTMARE.

Forum member Porschebeach and I attempted a transaction that has gone crazy. We need advice and maybe others can learn some precautions to take here when selling and buying. I am a long time member who has several deals that went great in the past. Dennis has been a member since last year and I believe him to be honest as well.

So here is the story.

Sold my Fuji 18-55 to Dennis here on this forum. He paid using Paypal transaction. I packed my lens well, bubble wrap and made sure it was secure, no moving around in the box. I copied his address from his PM, then went to Paypal and the transaction to confirm he had not made a mistake and his Paypal address was the exact same. I copied that to my yellow notes on my phone so I knew it was exactly as he typed it.

I go to the post office, I make out the priority mail stage and I told the clerk I was worried about my writing but she said she could read it fine, then she held out her electronic board to let me confirm she got it right and she had it correct, I matched it on my yellow notes app. I insured for 200 dollars, I sold it to Dennis for 210 so I could get some help on the shipping.

So, never having a problem with priority mail, I go back home and make my next lens purchase, and I use Paypal to avoid having to sign up another card with Ebay, but of course I had the money for it on my card and I of course knew to make sure and keep enough to refund Dennis on my debit card just in case anything went wrong.

WELL LOW AND BEHOLD. The package goes out for delivery to Dennis, his mail carrier obviously got the package, and Dennis emails me and says there is an exception and I check and sure enough, the tracking says there is INCOMPLETE address. return to sender. Strange, I verified the address was correct, and the clerk got it correct so just doing the scanning thing should show the proper address even if the physical address on the box got messed up. I was stunned. But, I had signed up for email tracking updates and THEY STOPPED, the package went missing. I filed a find thing on the post office site and a couple days later I finally get one saying the package was being returned.

Now, I keep getting these same email tracking things. I'll copy one here.

"

Hello Jeff Stewart,

Your package will arrive later than expected, but is still on its way. It is currently in transit to the next facility."

Then I get this email last night from the Texas post office.

Dear Jeffrey Stewart,

This is in response to your inquiry regarding the delivery of a package. Please accept our sincere apology for any inconvenience this matter may have caused you.

The Postal Service is aware of the frustration and disappointment caused when we do not live up to our commitment of safe and reliable mail service.

I researched your package inquiry, and our system shows the package is being returned to you. The package made it to the Dallas distribution center on 1/17/2021. You can keep track of the package by going to USPS.com, to track the package.

An apology is no substitute for good service, but I want to offer one on behalf of the Postal Service. We appreciate your reporting this matter to us. It helps to know the kinds of difficulties our customers have so we can work toward improvements. The information you have provided will be shared with management as they continue their efforts to improve service performance in your area.

Thank you for the opportunity to address this matter with you. If you have any questions, please contact me.

Sincerely,

Chanda Cole

Supervisor Customer Services

But all I get are the tracking that just say it will be late but it's on the way, no locations of the package.

Dennis has been understanding. We have been waiting for over a week and if the package comes back I can check the lens, make sure it's good to go and resend it.

So Dennis ask me today by text if I have any update, though I had added him to get emails also on the tracking. He thinks it may be lost in a loop or something.

So I tell him, no need in you having to go through this, I'll just go to Paypal and do you a refund and just wait for the lens to come home and ill file my insurance claim if it is broken or if I never get it at all. He said that would be great.

I go to Paypal and choose to refund and it says I don't have the funds to refund, I thought it would allow me to just send the refund from my debit card and the case would be closed and then I would handle the rest. But no, it won't let me give him a refund because it won't just take the money off the card, it has to be in my Paypal account.

I figure, alright, so, like an idiot I do a google search for a Paypal customer service DO NOT EVER DO THIS. Some guy answered fast and wanted me to download an app to my phone that would allow him to take control of it. OMG. I couldn't figure it out and then he wanted me to go WITH HIM ON THE PHONE to my nere by Dollar Gen store and buy a Google card and put 200 on it and he would help me get it up to my Paypal account. I finally hung up on him, he kept trying to call me back, he even threatened to suspend my Paypal account for 90 days if I didn't do what he said. When he tried that I knew then that no way Paypal would threaten me like that. So I hung up, looked it up on the Paypal forum and sure enough, others have been ripped off just like this. Thank God I didn't go through with this.

So anyway, I have the money on my debit to refund Dennis, but if I refund him just sending a normal paypal payment, I can use my card for that, then I will be stuck with an outstanding Paypal transaction and they could come back in a moth and just EXTRACT 200 dollars off my card and I would be screwed.

I asked Dennis to see if he could cancel the Paypal transaction as delivered and then I would just send the money to him, and I would be stuck with all the fees of sending him money plus whatever fees Paypal would charge me on the original deal. I could be out 30 dollars or so.

But as he should, Dennis doesn't want to just cancel the deal as delivered because he would then be having to hope I would send the money back. I could rip him off (Though I think he knows I wouldn't), but in that case I would have a bunch of fees to pay. And of course, I can't just send him his money and leave an open transaction that could cause me to lose 200.

So I can't use my debit to add money to my Paypal, I don't have a bank account, I use greendot. They used to let me put money on my Paypal with a moneypack card, but they no longer allow this.

So the only last thing I can think of is to have Dennis just file for a refund through Paypal and maybe in that case they will just extract it from my card, which is what I want, and they would close the transaction.

I am sure Dennis is honest but of course all kinds of things run through your mind, did he really get the lens, fill the box with some rocks and mess u the address and take it back to the post office? Of course I don't believe this for a second, besides, had it been delivered they would have scanned it in and it would have tracked as delivered, so I know his mail man actually had it out for delivery and he should have been able to just scan it to see the right address.

Now, it is SUPPOSEDLY on it's way back to me but the trajing never says where, and how do I know that Dennis, who has my email and such isn't the one sending these emails to me? (again, I don't believe this at all and I will of course tell Dennis to come read this post) He has been patient and I want to give him his refund, I will not spend it so Dennis, we will figure this out, your money is safe and I will figure a way to get it back to you.

I don't blame Dennis for not wanting to close the transaction on Paypal because he would then have to trust that I would send it back to him and not rip him off, and as I said, I would then be stuck for fees too because Paypal would think the transaction went through and he got his lens.

So I will ask Dennis to just file through Paypal for his refund and hopefully they will then just take the money off my debit, which would be fine, and they would close the case, and then I would just have to deal with filing for my insurance or I may get the lens back with no damage and that would be fine too as I can get 250 out of it on Ebay.

So I will have Dennis read this post and I am hoping others may have some advice as well, and also I will have final advice to other sellers, like TAKE A PIC of your package at the post office before you hand it over and show the buyer the address and a pic of the package. Dennis could have seen that the address was correct. Now when I get it back, IF I get it back, I will post a pic of the package here and of course to Dennis as well. I already sent him a pic of my receipt showing it was insured and that it was sent out.

So any advice would be welcome.

So, why don't you simply use your debit or credit card, put $210.00 back on your Paypal account, and return the money to Dennis?

Once you get the lens back if Dennis still wants it you can start the process over again.

THAT'S WHAT I have tried to do.  Paypal won't let me use my debit (registered with PayPal and up to date and all) to issue a refund.

I just thought we had it worked out.  I had Dennis just file for a refund, and sure enough, I log in to my PayPal and it shows my balance at minus 203, so it says to add money to my account to correct the minus balance, I choose add funds, AND FINALLY, it showed my cards 2 that are no longer active that I haven't deleted, and my normal card.  I choose it to add the 23 dollars, I hit the next button below, and it just sits there, no next page, I hit it over and over, I even refreshed the page.  At the bottom it says only certain cards and bank accounts can be used to add funds.  But then why would it show my active card as a way to put money on my account and then not let me?.

So I thought that we had this over with but they won't allow me to use my active card to fix my minus balance.  That is exactly what I want them to do for god sakes.

So now we are hoping that they just issue him the refund and surely they themselves will just take the money off my card

OldMax2000 New Member • Posts: 17
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

So sorry to hear your complication and problems in this supposedly simple transaction. While I do not have a good solution for the Paypal refund, I would like to share my recent experience with USPS. I bought a lens on eBay on December 19, paid immediately, and received a USPS shipping tracking number on Dec. 21 with a delivery date of Dec. 24. I checked it everyday and found it being stuck "in transit" forever. A couple weeks and several message exchanges with the seller later, I was informed that USPS put the package in a wrong bucket and that it was being rerouted to my location. Two weeks later I still did not see the package nor an update to the USPS tracking (still showed "in transit"). I exchanged messages with the seller again and was told that it would be delivered eventually and I just needed to be more patient. The package finally showed up on January 22.

My wife still has several shipments stuck since September. In my next camera purchase specifically asked the seller to avoid USPS and the package arrived within 3 days. I would, therefore, continue to avoid USPS for now as the firing of 10,000 postal workers last year has had and would continue to have quite a negative impact on its services.

My advice to you is that you might want to give the USPS a little more time to sort this out before taking any actions, if Dennis is agreeable to this. Hope this helps.

hikerdoc Senior Member • Posts: 2,838
NO USPS if valuable or time sensitive
4

I now have a general rule when shipping packages: If it is important, time sensitive, or valuable use FedEx or UPS.

In the past several months I have had multiple delayed deliveries, a lost and never found package, and not a single delivery which occurred by the expected date. It is very frustrating when expecting delivery in 3-4 days and finding it takes 6-8 days to arrive at a facility near delivery location where it can sit for weeks (most recent 17 days at a facility 45 miles from delivery address) while the tracking site gives the exception or late delivery warnings.

 hikerdoc's gear list:hikerdoc's gear list
Apple iPhone 8
mdmarqphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,069
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

guitarjeff wrote:

Your package will arrive later than expected, but is still on its way. It is currently in transit to the next facility."

I ordered something on Dec. 23 and on Dec. 27 the tracking info said that exact same message...and has ever since.  Apparently  the USPS lost an entire container from the company I purchased from.

 mdmarqphoto's gear list:mdmarqphoto's gear list
Casio Exilim EX-ZR800 Canon EOS 90D Canon EOS M Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM | C Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM +5 more
Jocksa
Jocksa Senior Member • Posts: 1,004
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

In the U.K. you can add to your PayPal balance as a separate transaction. Assuming the functionality is the same in the US, you add to the balance first, then issue a refund once your balance is sufficient. If I read your post correctly, you have been trying to issue a refund with less than 210 in the account assuming it would supplement the balance from your card.

-- hide signature --

“Stand in front of something more interesting.”

 Jocksa's gear list:Jocksa's gear list
Nikon D850 Nikon D7100 Nikon AF Nikkor 18-35mm f/3.5-4.5D IF ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm F4G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-80mm F2.8-4E ED VR +5 more
FrancoD Forum Pro • Posts: 14,248
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.
1

Just about the fake Pay Pal help, it is an ongoing scam :

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/PayPal-Basics/Re-Scam-using-PayPal-customer-service-telephone/td-p/1740596

If you need help from Pay Pal, find it on the Pay Pal site (under Help)  not via Google.

Autonerd Senior Member • Posts: 1,699
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

I would go ahead and file the insurance claim with USPS for starters. That might speed things along in finding your package.

FWIW I've had excellent luck with USPS Priority Mail and USPS in general. I've had one item lost (something I sold on eBay) and it was shipped as a first-class package. It disappeared and I had to eat the cost. Now I insure everything and include that cost in my handling charge. But that's a tangent.

As for Dennis, I think I would wait until the lens is found or the insurance claim is paid, then have him cancel the transaction through PayPal. Or send him a cashier's check, and hopefully Dennis is an honest person as well and won't do a not-received claim on PayPal. Actually I don't know if he can even do that if this was done as a simple money transfer rather than a purchase.

Aaron

-- hide signature --
Graham Meale
Graham Meale Veteran Member • Posts: 3,315
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.
3

Gawd! You've vindicated my decision long ago never to sell anything second-hand apart from "in the flesh".

-- hide signature --
 Graham Meale's gear list:Graham Meale's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM Canon EF 50mm F1.8 II +7 more
mdmarqphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,069
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

FrancoD wrote:

Just about the fake Pay Pal help, it is an ongoing scam :

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/PayPal-Basics/Re-Scam-using-PayPal-customer-service-telephone/td-p/1740596

If you need help from Pay Pal, find it on the Pay Pal site (under Help) not via Google.

Good advice when looking for any support number really.  Too many scammers out there.

 mdmarqphoto's gear list:mdmarqphoto's gear list
Casio Exilim EX-ZR800 Canon EOS 90D Canon EOS M Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM | C Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM +5 more
Mike B USA Regular Member • Posts: 107
Some best practices
3

What a train wreck. Somewhat predictable, but ugly just the same. Here are a few suggestions to avoid messes like this in the future. Maybe other people will add to them.

We'll start with the USPS.

Create an account at usps.com (it's free) for shipping and tracking packages. Use that account to create your shipping label. You'll need a scale that can weigh to the nearest ounce. You can buy your own or use the public one at the post office.

When you create the label at usps.com, it will automatically check to verify the address is a deliverable address. (The post office should have done this also, but who knows why it didn't happen.) You can choose your service there, Priority Mail or Express Mail, and choose all of your own options, including insurance. Insure the package for what it's worth. Most important, choose the SIGNATURE REQUIRED for delivery option. I think it costs $3.20 and it guarantees the recipient SIGNED for the package, not just that it was left on someone's porch.

You can pay for the shipping label with PayPal and print it yourself. Tape it to the box and drop it off at the post office. You can track the package with confidence you have insurance to cover anything short of the recipient signing for the delivery of the package.

Let's move on to PayPal.

PayPal works best when it is connected to your account at a real bank. All other use cases are problematic. Millions of people are trying to scam PayPal every day using fake accounts, fake IDs, fake addresses, and so on. Essentially, PayPal can't trust users who they can't verify who they are and where they live, so those users operate with many restrictions.

When you connect your PayPal account to a real account at a real bank, some verification happens behind the scenes and PayPal will work in a much more seamless, friendly manner. You can make a PayPal payment with no money in your PayPal account and designate it to be pulled from your actual bank account. You can electronically transfer money back and forth between the two. Holding periods for money in your PayPal account are much shorter or non-existent when it's connected to a real account.

If you don't have a real bank account, PayPal will treat you like a potential scammer because that's how scammers operate.

About the PayPal customer service scammer.

I don't want to make you feel worse than you already do, but if you even got as far as downloading an app to allow someone to take control of your phone (or computer) without recognizing an obvious scam, you probably shouldn't trust yourself to make online transactions. DELETE whatever app you downloaded and check your accounts to make sure money isn't missing. The scammer was attempting to go through your own phone to connect to your accounts to send money to the scammer. This is an extremely common scam, often associated with Microsoft "help desk" and many others.

OldMax2000 New Member • Posts: 17
Re: Some best practices
1

Mike B USA wrote:

Most important, choose the SIGNATURE REQUIRED for delivery option. I think it costs $3.20 and it guarantees the recipient SIGNED for the package, not just that it was left on someone's porch.

Mike, your post is very informative and pretty much matched my experiences, except for this one. I had two packages requiring signature requested by the sellers but were still left by our front door (1 UPS and 1 USPS). I think the delivery guys used their "best judgement" to minimize human contact at the age of COVID-19. On the other hand, I had one fake signature that claimed my package delivered to a completely different address (I believe that transaction was a scam though).

Mike B USA Regular Member • Posts: 107
Re: Some best practices

OldMax2000 wrote:

Mike B USA wrote:

Most important, choose the SIGNATURE REQUIRED for delivery option. I think it costs $3.20 and it guarantees the recipient SIGNED for the package, not just that it was left on someone's porch.

Mike, your post is very informative and pretty much matched my experiences, except for this one. I had two packages requiring signature requested by the sellers but were still left by our front door (1 UPS and 1 USPS). I think the delivery guys used their "best judgement" to minimize human contact at the age of COVID-19. On the other hand, I had one fake signature that claimed my package delivered to a completely different address (I believe that transaction was a scam though).

For USPS, I'd be interested to know if the tracking info said it was signed when it wasn't or if it marked it as an exception and left the package anyway.  You should be able to view the copy of the signature from the tracking information.

I have to assume if you PAY FOR a signature-required delivery and USPS chooses not to obtain a signature, THEY are responsible for the insured value if the recipient doesn't receive the package.

My experience with receiving USPS packages with signature required is they will leave a note on my door if I'm not home to sign for it.  The note allows me to sign the note and they will deliver the next day (after they get the signed note) or I go down to the Post Office and pick it up there with a signature.  Either way, they get a signature from me.

UPS is different.  They allow a signature waiver form to be filed with them.  With that waiver in place, they will leave a package even if I'm not home to sign for it.  In that case, I'm taking responsibility for the package as soon as they deliver it.  I believe the shipper can specify they want a real signature, not just a waiver.  Adorama or BH Photo has required a real signature from me for expensive items, even though I have the waiver in place.

mdmarqphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,069
Re: Some best practices

UPS also leaves a note that can be signed and left on the door, they'll attempt to deliver the following day.  (At least they used to do this)

I work from home but can't always get to the door when they knock.  A very nice UPS driver once gave me a whole pad of those notes so I could sign one and put it on the door before he got here (I track and know when they are going to arrive).  It worked great!

 mdmarqphoto's gear list:mdmarqphoto's gear list
Casio Exilim EX-ZR800 Canon EOS 90D Canon EOS M Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM | C Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM +5 more
lost alaskan
lost alaskan Senior Member • Posts: 1,749
Re: NO USPS if valuable or time sensitive

hikerdoc wrote:

I now have a general rule when shipping packages: If it is important, time sensitive, or valuable use FedEx or UPS.

In the past several months I have had multiple delayed deliveries, a lost and never found package, and not a single delivery which occurred by the expected date. It is very frustrating when expecting delivery in 3-4 days and finding it takes 6-8 days to arrive at a facility near delivery location where it can sit for weeks (most recent 17 days at a facility 45 miles from delivery address) while the tracking site gives the exception or late delivery warnings.

As this post(and the one it replied too) mention; Shipping is a mess right now. Pretty much with all carriers but I think USPS has been hit hard. In my local office there is a sign explaining the troubles and asking for patience. Lot's of people are staying home and ordering things online. Forget about 2-3 day delivery. But on the other hand I've had ZERO problems with my shipping w/ USPS. I am sorry to hear about the OP's trouble, there is nothing worse than a snarled up shipping problem. I have actually had a couple over the years. Everything eventually worked out but it is the helpless feeling that keeps you awake at night and just a little angry.

 lost alaskan's gear list:lost alaskan's gear list
Sony a6300 Sigma 30mm F2.8 EX DN Sony Vario-Tessar T* FE 16-35mm F4 ZA OSS +2 more
OldMax2000 New Member • Posts: 17
Re: Some best practices

Mike B USA wrote:

OldMax2000 wrote:

Mike B USA wrote:

Most important, choose the SIGNATURE REQUIRED for delivery option. I think it costs $3.20 and it guarantees the recipient SIGNED for the package, not just that it was left on someone's porch.

Mike, your post is very informative and pretty much matched my experiences, except for this one. I had two packages requiring signature requested by the sellers but were still left by our front door (1 UPS and 1 USPS). I think the delivery guys used their "best judgement" to minimize human contact at the age of COVID-19. On the other hand, I had one fake signature that claimed my package delivered to a completely different address (I believe that transaction was a scam though).

For USPS, I'd be interested to know if the tracking info said it was signed when it wasn't or if it marked it as an exception and left the package anyway. You should be able to view the copy of the signature from the tracking information.

In the case of USPS, it was never signed even though the seller reminded me that he requested a real signature.  The fake signature case was shipped through UPS for a package which I paid or but never received.

I have to assume if you PAY FOR a signature-required delivery and USPS chooses not to obtain a signature, THEY are responsible for the insured value if the recipient doesn't receive the package.

I paid $20 for shipping while the seller chose the shipping method.

My experience with receiving USPS packages with signature required is they will leave a note on my door if I'm not home to sign for it. The note allows me to sign the note and they will deliver the next day (after they get the signed note) or I go down to the Post Office and pick it up there with a signature. Either way, they get a signature from me.

USPS used to do that but no more since COVID.

UPS is different. They allow a signature waiver form to be filed with them. With that waiver in place, they will leave a package even if I'm not home to sign for it. In that case, I'm taking responsibility for the package as soon as they deliver it. I believe the shipper can specify they want a real signature, not just a waiver. Adorama or BH Photo has required a real signature from me for expensive items, even though I have the waiver in place.

I believe the seller selected a real signature per his message, but UPS still did not ask us to do it. He just knocked our door, probably saw one of us peeking through the door, and then left the package by the door. It seems to be a judgement call on their part.

EOS GUY
EOS GUY Senior Member • Posts: 4,387
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

1. Always TAKE A PHOTO OF THE PACKAGING LABEL ON THE ITEM AT THE POST OFFICE AND ALSO OF THE PRINTED RECIEPT WITH ADDRESS AND TRACKING NUMBER ON IT.

That way your butt is covered.

2. Man you can sell an 18-55 for way more than that and you are weakening the market for others like me! Mint used I sell for £275 and white box new kit split for £300 Plus postage paid buy buyer!

3, The Post office would know if the item arrived at Dennis' address and they would know if he returned it to them (with or without rocks.) They record all of these steps so I'd say you can pretty much rule them out.

For these such reasons I never skimp on Postage and always and only ever use Royal Mail Special delivery, which is tracked every step, insured for £500 and next day delivery by 1pm guaranteed. I'd recommend using your country's equivalent.

I think things will work out in the wash for you eventually. Just chill.

4. That paypal guy was a scammer, they put fake links on google etc, they would never call you back and demand you do things or they'll close your account etc. Be wary and use the official website only, logged into it so you know it is not a sham site and go through those channels.

Good luck to you and Dennis, be patient (I know the anxiety these things can cause) and I reckon it will all work out.

OP and anyone reading, can I kindly ask on behalf of others and in your own self interest, please know the market and stop underselling, it cheapens the market

The Fuji 18-55 is always in great demand due to it's excellent performance across the focal range and will always be an excellent seller so no need to panic sell.

Peace

-- hide signature --

My Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/photonicstreetdreams/
The earth laughs in flowers.
-Ralph Waldo Emmerson
Before you say (or post in our context) = THINK.
Is what you're going to say - True. Helpful. Important (or Inspiring.) Necessary. Kind.

 EOS GUY's gear list:EOS GUY's gear list
Panasonic LX100 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Fujifilm X-T2 Canon EF-S 24mm F2.8 STM Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS +6 more
EOS GUY
EOS GUY Senior Member • Posts: 4,387
Re: Need advice/help with transaction, lessons for others as well.

Jocksa wrote:

In the U.K. you can add to your PayPal balance as a separate transaction. Assuming the functionality is the same in the US, you add to the balance first, then issue a refund once your balance is sufficient. If I read your post correctly, you have been trying to issue a refund with less than 210 in the account assuming it would supplement the balance from your card.

And this

-- hide signature --

My Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/photonicstreetdreams/
The earth laughs in flowers.
-Ralph Waldo Emmerson
Before you say (or post in our context) = THINK.
Is what you're going to say - True. Helpful. Important (or Inspiring.) Necessary. Kind.

 EOS GUY's gear list:EOS GUY's gear list
Panasonic LX100 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Fujifilm X-T2 Canon EF-S 24mm F2.8 STM Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS +6 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads