en-el15c battery charging

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Diswantsho
Diswantsho Regular Member • Posts: 340
en-el15c battery charging

Hi

I used my old D800 batteries with my Z7 up till now, as I bought it second hand without its original battery.

At the spur of the moment I ordered an en-el15c in October and it suddenly arrived at my door today. Now I am a bit confused when I read about the charger and camera charging cable:

(a) Nikon's site says I must charge it with the MH25a. The shop where I bought the battery, and seemingly most other dealers also mention the MH25, that I still have from my D800. So I want to make sure, is the older charger safe for the new battery?

(b) If I want to charge the battery in camera (I am aware with my camera it must be turned off), both Nikon and online dealers only mention the EH 7P power adapter. Firstly, it seems discontinued: I cannot find a store here in South Africa that has stock, and I notice B&H marked it discontinued, pretty much same with Amazon. Secondly, I want to know if I am limited to this discontinued cable or can I use pretty much any standard cable with the appropriate USB connectors and link to a power bank, my vehicle's usb socket or a generic usb wall plug?

edit: Nikon included a nice "manual" with the battery in several languages, but that only contains warnings and disclaimers.

Thanks.

 Diswantsho's gear list:Diswantsho's gear list
Nikon D800E Olympus PEN-F Nikon Z7 +3 more
Nikon D80 Nikon D800 Nikon Z7
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Boudewijn van der Drift Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Diswantsho wrote:

Hi

I used my old D800 batteries with my Z7 up till now, as I bought it second hand without its original battery.

At the spur of the moment I ordered an en-el15c in October and it suddenly arrived at my door today. Now I am a bit confused when I read about the charger and camera charging cable:

(a) Nikon's site says I must charge it with the MH25a. The shop where I bought the battery, and seemingly most other dealers also mention the MH25, that I still have from my D800. So I want to make sure, is the older charger safe for the new battery?

(b) If I want to charge the battery in camera (I am aware with my camera it must be turned off), both Nikon and online dealers only mention the EH 7P power adapter. Firstly, it seems discontinued: I cannot find a store here in South Africa that has stock, and I notice B&H marked it discontinued, pretty much same with Amazon. Secondly, I want to know if I am limited to this discontinued cable or can I use pretty much any standard cable with the appropriate USB connectors and link to a power bank, my vehicle's usb socket or a generic usb wall plug?

edit: Nikon included a nice "manual" with the battery in several languages, but that only contains warnings and disclaimers.

Thanks.

https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/eu/BV_article?articleNo=000042103&configured=1&lang=en_GB&setRedirect=true

the c is the only one that needs the 25a, the difference might be a slightly higher End of Charge voltage, to be sure of the stated mAh of charge.

My 2.5 yr old Z7 (first batch) already came with a 25a, so assume all Z's, except Z50 got that one.

If I had to buy the 25a, having a 25, I would just try it, assuming I just loose a few mAh's and perhaps gaining some service life.

I used a random USB-C cable from my computer traveling light, did not know of a special cable. Takes a long time though (= overnight with my laptop).

 Boudewijn van der Drift's gear list:Boudewijn van der Drift's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Nikon Z 70-200 F2.8 VR +2 more
Diswantsho
OP Diswantsho Regular Member • Posts: 340
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Thanks, Boudewijn.

It is a great summary in that link.

I have the ec-24 cable that came with the camera, so I am giving that a try.

 Diswantsho's gear list:Diswantsho's gear list
Nikon D800E Olympus PEN-F Nikon Z7 +3 more
Jestertheclown
Jestertheclown Veteran Member • Posts: 3,130
Re: en-el15c battery charging
1

This is the first I've heard of the "C" requiring a specific charger.

I've got one "C", two "Bs" and an old battery which came as a spare with a used D7000 that I bought a few years ago. In fact, that last one has the word "Nikon" written on the back in English; everything else is in Chines/Japanese; I don't know which.

Anyway, back to the point, I charge all of them using an Ex-Pro charger; I've got two identical ones, cost about a tenner each, that I bought during my DSLR days.

All of my batteries charge and seemingly, work just fine.

I did once attempt to charge a "B," using a Usb. cable: it was soon after I'd bought my Z7 and I wanted to see how well, or otherwise, it worked but it took so long that I gave up on the idea and haven't tried it since.

For what it's worth, the "C" returns roughly 100 more shots than the "Bs."

The strange old one with he funny writing can outrun them too. Thing is, I'm not really sure what it is!

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"

Boudewijn van der Drift Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: en-el15c battery charging
1

Diswantsho wrote:

Thanks, Boudewijn.

It is a great summary in that link.

I have the ec-24 cable that came with the camera, so I am giving that a try.

If you are like me, you will be bored soon with peeling off the side of the camera for every charge.

Your older batteries are are rated for a bit less mAh charge, and perhaps a bit lower voltage once charged then the new one.

If your older batteries survived whatever charger you used, so will the new one. Because it can take more charge and perhaps more volts. I see as the only risk, that you miss out on a few extra mAh's of charge. If you like experimenting, charge it first with your existing charger, pop it in the camera, connect the USB and see if it adds an appreciable amount before the orange charging light on the camera extinguishes.

Just keep an eye on the battery indicator and the one but last item of the set up menu (the wrench): "battery info" for awhile.

 Boudewijn van der Drift's gear list:Boudewijn van der Drift's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Nikon Z 70-200 F2.8 VR +2 more
Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 7,455
Re: en-el15c battery charging
3

Boudewijn van der Drift wrote:

Diswantsho wrote:

Thanks, Boudewijn.

It is a great summary in that link.

I have the ec-24 cable that came with the camera, so I am giving that a try.

If you are like me, you will be bored soon with peeling off the side of the camera for every charge.

Your older batteries are are rated for a bit less mAh charge, and perhaps a bit lower voltage once charged then the new one.

The peak charging voltage is determined by the battery chemistry which is Li-Ion in this case I think, and not the capacity of the battery in mAh.   My thought is that the newest charger might charge at a slightly faster rate to keep charging times down to normal.

For Li-Ion batteries the nominal voltage is 3.6 V/cell, max charge voltage is 4.1, best storage voltage is 3.7, and the minimum discharge voltage is 2.9 - 3.2V.  Note that none of this has anything to do with the capacity in mAh.

If your older batteries survived whatever charger you used, so will the new one. Because it can take more charge and perhaps more volts. I see as the only risk, that you miss out on a few extra mAh's of charge. If you like experimenting, charge it first with your existing charger, pop it in the camera, connect the USB and see if it adds an appreciable amount before the orange charging light on the camera extinguishes.

Just keep an eye on the battery indicator and the one but last item of the set up menu (the wrench): "battery info" for awhile.

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Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
The first digital image was made in the late '60's for NASA, as a way to record images of Mars. Each "square" was represented by three numbers, corresponding to the red, green, and blue hue on a scale of 0 to 255. This eliminated the need to ship film back to Earth.

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S 70-200mm F2.8E FL ED VR Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
Boudewijn van der Drift Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Ernie Misner wrote:

Boudewijn van der Drift wrote:

Diswantsho wrote:

Thanks, Boudewijn.

It is a great summary in that link.

I have the ec-24 cable that came with the camera, so I am giving that a try.

If you are like me, you will be bored soon with peeling off the side of the camera for every charge.

Your older batteries are are rated for a bit less mAh charge, and perhaps a bit lower voltage once charged then the new one.

The peak charging voltage is determined by the battery chemistry which is Li-Ion in this case I think, and not the capacity of the battery in mAh. My thought is that the newest charger might charge at a slightly faster rate to keep charging times down to normal.

For Li-Ion batteries the nominal voltage is 3.6 V/cell, max charge voltage is 4.1, best storage voltage is 3.7, and the minimum discharge voltage is 2.9 - 3.2V. Note that none of this has anything to do with the capacity in mAh.

If your older batteries survived whatever charger you used, so will the new one. Because it can take more charge and perhaps more volts. I see as the only risk, that you miss out on a few extra mAh's of charge. If you like experimenting, charge it first with your existing charger, pop it in the camera, connect the USB and see if it adds an appreciable amount before the orange charging light on the camera extinguishes.

Just keep an eye on the battery indicator and the one but last item of the set up menu (the wrench): "battery info" for awhile.

Yes, and as you said the End of Charge voltage of Li-ion is variable. For the same battery, higher voltage means more charge. Too much voltage/charge poses a fire hazard, there was a Samsung mobile where they had become abit to greedy. Oh and the Boeing dreamliner had a similar story. So the charger cuts out at a conservative safe voltage/charge. I trust Nikon in this, but still like to charge batteries outside the camera.

The Li-ion chemistries (there are at least 5 main ones) are still being improved towards higher safe voltages/charges. This is why manufacturers comes out with new improved types.

 Boudewijn van der Drift's gear list:Boudewijn van der Drift's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Nikon Z 70-200 F2.8 VR +2 more
1llusive
1llusive Veteran Member • Posts: 3,398
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Diswantsho wrote:

(b) If I want to charge the battery in camera (I am aware with my camera it must be turned off), both Nikon and online dealers only mention the EH 7P power adapter. Firstly, it seems discontinued: I cannot find a store here in South Africa that has stock, and I notice B&H marked it discontinued, pretty much same with Amazon. Secondly, I want to know if I am limited to this discontinued cable or can I use pretty much any standard cable with the appropriate USB connectors and link to a power bank, my vehicle's usb socket or a generic usb wall plug?

edit: Nikon included a nice "manual" with the battery in several languages, but that only contains warnings and disclaimers.

You do not need the EH 7P but you do need the USB-C to USB-C cable, NOT the one with a USB-A end to do Power Delivery over USB - the UC-E25. If you do not have Power Delivery (PD) capability don't even waste your time as charging will take ages.

 1llusive's gear list:1llusive's gear list
Nikon Z6 II Sigma 100-400mm F5-6.3 Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon Z 85mm F1.8 +1 more
1llusive
1llusive Veteran Member • Posts: 3,398
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Ernie Misner wrote:

Boudewijn van der Drift wrote:

Diswantsho wrote:

Thanks, Boudewijn.

It is a great summary in that link.

I have the ec-24 cable that came with the camera, so I am giving that a try.

If you are like me, you will be bored soon with peeling off the side of the camera for every charge.

Your older batteries are are rated for a bit less mAh charge, and perhaps a bit lower voltage once charged then the new one.

The peak charging voltage is determined by the battery chemistry which is Li-Ion in this case I think, and not the capacity of the battery in mAh. My thought is that the newest charger might charge at a slightly faster rate to keep charging times down to normal.

IMO it charges too fast. The battery gets quite warm and I usually pull the plug early, finding it charged to a pretty high level long before you'd think. Heat is a killer of batteries.

For Li-Ion batteries the nominal voltage is 3.6 V/cell, max charge voltage is 4.1, best storage voltage is 3.7, and the minimum discharge voltage is 2.9 - 3.2V. Note that none of this has anything to do with the capacity in mAh.

If your older batteries survived whatever charger you used, so will the new one. Because it can take more charge and perhaps more volts. I see as the only risk, that you miss out on a few extra mAh's of charge. If you like experimenting, charge it first with your existing charger, pop it in the camera, connect the USB and see if it adds an appreciable amount before the orange charging light on the camera extinguishes.

Just keep an eye on the battery indicator and the one but last item of the set up menu (the wrench): "battery info" for awhile.

 1llusive's gear list:1llusive's gear list
Nikon Z6 II Sigma 100-400mm F5-6.3 Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon Z 85mm F1.8 +1 more
Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 7,455
Re: en-el15c battery charging

1llusive wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

Boudewijn van der Drift wrote:

Diswantsho wrote:

Thanks, Boudewijn.

It is a great summary in that link.

I have the ec-24 cable that came with the camera, so I am giving that a try.

If you are like me, you will be bored soon with peeling off the side of the camera for every charge.

Your older batteries are are rated for a bit less mAh charge, and perhaps a bit lower voltage once charged then the new one.

The peak charging voltage is determined by the battery chemistry which is Li-Ion in this case I think, and not the capacity of the battery in mAh. My thought is that the newest charger might charge at a slightly faster rate to keep charging times down to normal.

IMO it charges too fast. The battery gets quite warm and I usually pull the plug early, finding it charged to a pretty high level long before you'd think. Heat is a killer of batteries.

So does the new "c" type battery fit in the older less powerful chargers then?  I'm all for a slower charger that does not get the battery so warm.   The peak charge voltage should be the same but just take a bit longer.

For Li-Ion batteries the nominal voltage is 3.6 V/cell, max charge voltage is 4.1, best storage voltage is 3.7, and the minimum discharge voltage is 2.9 - 3.2V. Note that none of this has anything to do with the capacity in mAh.

If your older batteries survived whatever charger you used, so will the new one. Because it can take more charge and perhaps more volts. I see as the only risk, that you miss out on a few extra mAh's of charge. If you like experimenting, charge it first with your existing charger, pop it in the camera, connect the USB and see if it adds an appreciable amount before the orange charging light on the camera extinguishes.

Just keep an eye on the battery indicator and the one but last item of the set up menu (the wrench): "battery info" for awhile.

-- hide signature --

Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
The first digital image was made in the late '60's for NASA, as a way to record images of Mars. Each "square" was represented by three numbers, corresponding to the red, green, and blue hue on a scale of 0 to 255. This eliminated the need to ship film back to Earth.

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S 70-200mm F2.8E FL ED VR Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 5,274
Re: en-el15c battery charging
1

Ernie Misner wrote:

So does the new "c" type battery fit in the older less powerful chargers then? I'm all for a slower charger that does not get the battery so warm. The peak charge voltage should be the same but just take a bit longer.

All 4 of the EN-EL15 version batteries (EN-EL15, a, b and c) are still listed on Nikon's USA website. The MH-25 and MH-25a are also listed. If you look at the description of each battery, the charger that can be used is listed. For the original version, the MH-25 is listed. For all others, only the MH-25a is listed as the proper charger.

Going a step further, I looked at the descriptions of the 2 chargers. The MH-25 only lists the original EN-EL15. The description of the MH-25a is obviously out of date. It only lists the EN-EL15 and EN-EL15a. No mention of the b and c versions. Of course, we know that is the correct charger for those b and c versions.

Now, does that mean you can't use the older charger with the a, b and c versions? I don't know the correct answer to that. It seems unlikely to me that Nikon would not list all combinations that could be used.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/photography-accessories/mirrorless-camera-accessories.page

-- hide signature --

Steve

Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 7,455
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

So does the new "c" type battery fit in the older less powerful chargers then? I'm all for a slower charger that does not get the battery so warm. The peak charge voltage should be the same but just take a bit longer.

All 4 of the EN-EL15 version batteries (EN-EL15, a, b and c) are still listed on Nikon's USA website. The MH-25 and MH-25a are also listed. If you look at the description of each battery, the charger that can be used is listed. For the original version, the MH-25 is listed. For all others, only the MH-25a is listed as the proper charger.

Going a step further, I looked at the descriptions of the 2 chargers. The MH-25 only lists the original EN-EL15. The description of the MH-25a is obviously out of date. It only lists the EN-EL15 and EN-EL15a. No mention of the b and c versions. Of course, we know that is the correct charger for those b and c versions.

Now, does that mean you can't use the older charger with the a, b and c versions? I don't know the correct answer to that. It seems unlikely to me that Nikon would not list all combinations that could be used.

Thank you for the info and link.   I have an MH-25a sitting here and it says 8.4V and 1.2A output.  Do you have an MH-25 handy?

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/photography-accessories/mirrorless-camera-accessories.page

-- hide signature --

Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
The first digital image was made in the late '60's for NASA, as a way to record images of Mars. Each "square" was represented by three numbers, corresponding to the red, green, and blue hue on a scale of 0 to 255. This eliminated the need to ship film back to Earth.

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S 70-200mm F2.8E FL ED VR Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 5,274
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Ernie Misner wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

So does the new "c" type battery fit in the older less powerful chargers then? I'm all for a slower charger that does not get the battery so warm. The peak charge voltage should be the same but just take a bit longer.

All 4 of the EN-EL15 version batteries (EN-EL15, a, b and c) are still listed on Nikon's USA website. The MH-25 and MH-25a are also listed. If you look at the description of each battery, the charger that can be used is listed. For the original version, the MH-25 is listed. For all others, only the MH-25a is listed as the proper charger.

Going a step further, I looked at the descriptions of the 2 chargers. The MH-25 only lists the original EN-EL15. The description of the MH-25a is obviously out of date. It only lists the EN-EL15 and EN-EL15a. No mention of the b and c versions. Of course, we know that is the correct charger for those b and c versions.

Now, does that mean you can't use the older charger with the a, b and c versions? I don't know the correct answer to that. It seems unlikely to me that Nikon would not list all combinations that could be used.

Thank you for the info and link. I have an MH-25a sitting here and it says 8.4V and 1.2A output. Do you have an MH-25 handy?

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/photography-accessories/mirrorless-camera-accessories.page

No, I don't think I ever had an MH-25. I can't remember about that.

Just as a simple charger, I see no reason you couldn't charge a newer model battery with the older charger. The problem is that batteries and chargers are not the simple devices of yore. They aren't simple constant current or constant voltage chargers. They are much more sophisticated and may have some compatibility issues when not used as the manufacturer intended.

I agree with your previous comments. I would be in favor of using a charger that charged the battery at a slower rate when I'm not in a hurry. The old formula of C/10 mA, where C is the battery capacity expressed in mAh, was a safe charging rate that didn't stress batteries and ran little risk of overheating them. Li-ion batteries have changed all of that. Combined with the fact that people want everything NOW, means engineers are pushing the envelope to charge our batteries as quickly as possible.

When I think about it, I can't really find fault with the modern chargers and batteries. I typically get years of usage out of even relatively cheap aftermarket batteries. My biggest fear of charging Li-ion batteries is starting a fire. As most all of us know, these little batteries are horrible in that regard. I'm careful about where I place them while charging. Good batteries have builtin circuitry that communicates with the charger and reduce/stop charging the battery if it overheats, but caution is still advised.

To cut to the chase, I would be nervous about charging the newer versions of the EN-EL15 batteries in the MH-25 charger unless Nikon has documented it is okay. I have not seen that statement.

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Steve

Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 7,455
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

So does the new "c" type battery fit in the older less powerful chargers then? I'm all for a slower charger that does not get the battery so warm. The peak charge voltage should be the same but just take a bit longer.

All 4 of the EN-EL15 version batteries (EN-EL15, a, b and c) are still listed on Nikon's USA website. The MH-25 and MH-25a are also listed. If you look at the description of each battery, the charger that can be used is listed. For the original version, the MH-25 is listed. For all others, only the MH-25a is listed as the proper charger.

Going a step further, I looked at the descriptions of the 2 chargers. The MH-25 only lists the original EN-EL15. The description of the MH-25a is obviously out of date. It only lists the EN-EL15 and EN-EL15a. No mention of the b and c versions. Of course, we know that is the correct charger for those b and c versions.

Now, does that mean you can't use the older charger with the a, b and c versions? I don't know the correct answer to that. It seems unlikely to me that Nikon would not list all combinations that could be used.

Thank you for the info and link. I have an MH-25a sitting here and it says 8.4V and 1.2A output. Do you have an MH-25 handy?

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/photography-accessories/mirrorless-camera-accessories.page

No, I don't think I ever had an MH-25. I can't remember about that.

Just as a simple charger, I see no reason you couldn't charge a newer model battery with the older charger. The problem is that batteries and chargers are not the simple devices of yore. They aren't simple constant current or constant voltage chargers. They are much more sophisticated and may have some compatibility issues when not used as the manufacturer intended.

I agree with your previous comments. I would be in favor of using a charger that charged the battery at a slower rate when I'm not in a hurry. The old formula of C/10 mA, where C is the battery capacity expressed in mAh, was a safe charging rate that didn't stress batteries and ran little risk of overheating them. Li-ion batteries have changed all of that. Combined with the fact that people want everything NOW, means engineers are pushing the envelope to charge our batteries as quickly as possible.

When I think about it, I can't really find fault with the modern chargers and batteries. I typically get years of usage out of even relatively cheap aftermarket batteries. My biggest fear of charging Li-ion batteries is starting a fire. As most all of us know, these little batteries are horrible in that regard. I'm careful about where I place them while charging. Good batteries have builtin circuitry that communicates with the charger and reduce/stop charging the battery if it overheats, but caution is still advised.

To cut to the chase, I would be nervous about charging the newer versions of the EN-EL15 batteries in the MH-25 charger unless Nikon has documented it is okay. I have not seen that statement.

You have a good handle on the battery chemistry and charging.  Do you do any RC modeling?  I have flown RC of and on for years and worked with their chargers and batteries as well.  LiFePO4 chemistry is getting to be very popular now just about everywhere except in photography unless I have missed something.

-- hide signature --

Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
The first digital image was made in the late '60's for NASA, as a way to record images of Mars. Each "square" was represented by three numbers, corresponding to the red, green, and blue hue on a scale of 0 to 255. This eliminated the need to ship film back to Earth.

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S 70-200mm F2.8E FL ED VR Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 5,274
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Ernie Misner wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

So does the new "c" type battery fit in the older less powerful chargers then? I'm all for a slower charger that does not get the battery so warm. The peak charge voltage should be the same but just take a bit longer.

All 4 of the EN-EL15 version batteries (EN-EL15, a, b and c) are still listed on Nikon's USA website. The MH-25 and MH-25a are also listed. If you look at the description of each battery, the charger that can be used is listed. For the original version, the MH-25 is listed. For all others, only the MH-25a is listed as the proper charger.

Going a step further, I looked at the descriptions of the 2 chargers. The MH-25 only lists the original EN-EL15. The description of the MH-25a is obviously out of date. It only lists the EN-EL15 and EN-EL15a. No mention of the b and c versions. Of course, we know that is the correct charger for those b and c versions.

Now, does that mean you can't use the older charger with the a, b and c versions? I don't know the correct answer to that. It seems unlikely to me that Nikon would not list all combinations that could be used.

Thank you for the info and link. I have an MH-25a sitting here and it says 8.4V and 1.2A output. Do you have an MH-25 handy?

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/photography-accessories/mirrorless-camera-accessories.page

No, I don't think I ever had an MH-25. I can't remember about that.

Just as a simple charger, I see no reason you couldn't charge a newer model battery with the older charger. The problem is that batteries and chargers are not the simple devices of yore. They aren't simple constant current or constant voltage chargers. They are much more sophisticated and may have some compatibility issues when not used as the manufacturer intended.

I agree with your previous comments. I would be in favor of using a charger that charged the battery at a slower rate when I'm not in a hurry. The old formula of C/10 mA, where C is the battery capacity expressed in mAh, was a safe charging rate that didn't stress batteries and ran little risk of overheating them. Li-ion batteries have changed all of that. Combined with the fact that people want everything NOW, means engineers are pushing the envelope to charge our batteries as quickly as possible.

When I think about it, I can't really find fault with the modern chargers and batteries. I typically get years of usage out of even relatively cheap aftermarket batteries. My biggest fear of charging Li-ion batteries is starting a fire. As most all of us know, these little batteries are horrible in that regard. I'm careful about where I place them while charging. Good batteries have builtin circuitry that communicates with the charger and reduce/stop charging the battery if it overheats, but caution is still advised.

To cut to the chase, I would be nervous about charging the newer versions of the EN-EL15 batteries in the MH-25 charger unless Nikon has documented it is okay. I have not seen that statement.

You have a good handle on the battery chemistry and charging. Do you do any RC modeling? I have flown RC of and on for years and worked with their chargers and batteries as well. LiFePO4 chemistry is getting to be very popular now just about everywhere except in photography unless I have missed something.

In fact, I did fly RC planes, and dabbled a bit in helicopters. I did that from 1981 until about 1992. To say I was heavily involved would be an understatement. I even influenced my father-in-law to take up the hobby. Everything I flew was nitromethane fueled engines. So, my battery experience was only the batteries in the remote control units. I usually had multiple planes to fly when I went to the air strip. I never needed to charge batteries on site. I would charge them at home, with slow chargers.

I have an interest to get back into the hobby with the electric motors available today. I've got too many irons in the fire to get serious about it. And, retirement income is not what a steady job provided. I'll probably not get more involved than going out to the strip and watching/photographing others. For sure, battery chargers for that gear are highly technical. They push those batteries extremely hard. Obviously, they don't have the lifespan our camera gear does. You trade lifespan for the ability to charge batteries in just a few minutes.

I think you're right about LiFePO4 chemistry. There must be reasons it hasn't become acceptable in photo gear. I need to research that chemistry and become more knowledgeable about it. There must be some downsides that have prevented their use in cameras. I know those batteries have very long lifespan when charged gently. Combined with extremely high current output, they seem to be ideal for many uses. I have no idea about their self discharge rate. It's something to look at and become better educated about.

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Steve

Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 7,455
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

So does the new "c" type battery fit in the older less powerful chargers then? I'm all for a slower charger that does not get the battery so warm. The peak charge voltage should be the same but just take a bit longer.

All 4 of the EN-EL15 version batteries (EN-EL15, a, b and c) are still listed on Nikon's USA website. The MH-25 and MH-25a are also listed. If you look at the description of each battery, the charger that can be used is listed. For the original version, the MH-25 is listed. For all others, only the MH-25a is listed as the proper charger.

Going a step further, I looked at the descriptions of the 2 chargers. The MH-25 only lists the original EN-EL15. The description of the MH-25a is obviously out of date. It only lists the EN-EL15 and EN-EL15a. No mention of the b and c versions. Of course, we know that is the correct charger for those b and c versions.

Now, does that mean you can't use the older charger with the a, b and c versions? I don't know the correct answer to that. It seems unlikely to me that Nikon would not list all combinations that could be used.

Thank you for the info and link. I have an MH-25a sitting here and it says 8.4V and 1.2A output. Do you have an MH-25 handy?

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/photography-accessories/mirrorless-camera-accessories.page

No, I don't think I ever had an MH-25. I can't remember about that.

Just as a simple charger, I see no reason you couldn't charge a newer model battery with the older charger. The problem is that batteries and chargers are not the simple devices of yore. They aren't simple constant current or constant voltage chargers. They are much more sophisticated and may have some compatibility issues when not used as the manufacturer intended.

I agree with your previous comments. I would be in favor of using a charger that charged the battery at a slower rate when I'm not in a hurry. The old formula of C/10 mA, where C is the battery capacity expressed in mAh, was a safe charging rate that didn't stress batteries and ran little risk of overheating them. Li-ion batteries have changed all of that. Combined with the fact that people want everything NOW, means engineers are pushing the envelope to charge our batteries as quickly as possible.

When I think about it, I can't really find fault with the modern chargers and batteries. I typically get years of usage out of even relatively cheap aftermarket batteries. My biggest fear of charging Li-ion batteries is starting a fire. As most all of us know, these little batteries are horrible in that regard. I'm careful about where I place them while charging. Good batteries have builtin circuitry that communicates with the charger and reduce/stop charging the battery if it overheats, but caution is still advised.

To cut to the chase, I would be nervous about charging the newer versions of the EN-EL15 batteries in the MH-25 charger unless Nikon has documented it is okay. I have not seen that statement.

You have a good handle on the battery chemistry and charging. Do you do any RC modeling? I have flown RC of and on for years and worked with their chargers and batteries as well. LiFePO4 chemistry is getting to be very popular now just about everywhere except in photography unless I have missed something.

In fact, I did fly RC planes, and dabbled a bit in helicopters. I did that from 1981 until about 1992. To say I was heavily involved would be an understatement. I even influenced my father-in-law to take up the hobby. Everything I flew was nitromethane fueled engines. So, my battery experience was only the batteries in the remote control units. I usually had multiple planes to fly when I went to the air strip. I never needed to charge batteries on site. I would charge them at home, with slow chargers.

I have an interest to get back into the hobby with the electric motors available today.

Thanks for the great reply.  I hope you do get back into it and see how much things have changed - much so for the better.  Indeed the small electrics are so easy to fly close to home now.  Did you ever try an RC glider?  I flew a ton of hand launch gliders in the 90's but have a couple of "powered gliders" now.  Snagging a thermal is so much fun it's pathetic.

I think the LiFePO4 chemistry is extremely user friendly but doesn't pack as much amperage in a small and lightweight size as the Li-Ions do.  Going in the other direction, LiPo's (lithium polymer) are used now to power electric motors and pack more amperage in a small size than Li-Ions do - but they are more dangerous yet and have burned many houses down if not handled correctly.

I've got too many irons in the fire to get serious about it. And, retirement income is not what a steady job provided. I'll probably not get more involved than going out to the strip and watching/photographing others. For sure, battery chargers for that gear are highly technical. They push those batteries extremely hard. Obviously, they don't have the lifespan our camera gear does. You trade lifespan for the ability to charge batteries in just a few minutes.

I think you're right about LiFePO4 chemistry. There must be reasons it hasn't become acceptable in photo gear. I need to research that chemistry and become more knowledgeable about it. There must be some downsides that have prevented their use in cameras. I know those batteries have very long lifespan when charged gently. Combined with extremely high current output, they seem to be ideal for many uses. I have no idea about their self discharge rate. It's something to look at and become better educated about.

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Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
The first digital image was made in the late '60's for NASA, as a way to record images of Mars. Each "square" was represented by three numbers, corresponding to the red, green, and blue hue on a scale of 0 to 255. This eliminated the need to ship film back to Earth.

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S 70-200mm F2.8E FL ED VR Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 5,274
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Ernie Misner wrote:

Thanks for the great reply. I hope you do get back into it and see how much things have changed - much so for the better. Indeed the small electrics are so easy to fly close to home now. Did you ever try an RC glider? I flew a ton of hand launch gliders in the 90's but have a couple of "powered gliders" now. Snagging a thermal is so much fun it's pathetic.

I think the LiFePO4 chemistry is extremely user friendly but doesn't pack as much amperage in a small and lightweight size as the Li-Ions do. Going in the other direction, LiPo's (lithium polymer) are used now to power electric motors and pack more amperage in a small size than Li-Ions do - but they are more dangerous yet and have burned many houses down if not handled correctly.

You see? I told you I needed to research the newer technology. You kindly taught me some things about the LiFePO4 batteries I had wrong. I thought they were capable of higher amperage output. Thank you for the mini lesson on the newer battery technologies. It was the LiPo batteries that caused so many fires in the hover boards just a few years ago, was it not?

I never got into the gliders. We had a couple of guys in our club that flew them. They were generally a thorn in the side of most of the other RC pilots. Their big wingspan, slow flying, planes were hogging up the airspace of the hot rods. I never saw, or heard of, a midair collision between a glider and a faster plane. But, it was a contentious relationship. OTOH, there were frequently collisions between the faster planes. Given a little time, the glider pilots would catch a thermal and get altitude well beyond where most guys wanted to fly. I never had a problem with them. But, never joined them in their enthusiasm for the gliders either.

Long after I stopped flying, the club lost its lease on their land and had to move. They’re now on some military owned land. There are some severe restrictions on the altitude they can fly. Gliders would not be much fun. I would still like to have a go at the battery powered sport planes. I might have to spend some time learning about them, and the current generation of radio gear, and give it a try. Between motorcycles, firearms and cameras, there are hardly enough hours in a day (or dollars) to take on another hobby. Just thinking about those old days brings back some wonderful memories. Thanks for jogging those memories. And thanks to the other forum members for tolerating our conversation way off topic.

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Steve

Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 7,455
Re: en-el15c battery charging

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

Thanks for the great reply. I hope you do get back into it and see how much things have changed - much so for the better. Indeed the small electrics are so easy to fly close to home now. Did you ever try an RC glider? I flew a ton of hand launch gliders in the 90's but have a couple of "powered gliders" now. Snagging a thermal is so much fun it's pathetic.

I think the LiFePO4 chemistry is extremely user friendly but doesn't pack as much amperage in a small and lightweight size as the Li-Ions do. Going in the other direction, LiPo's (lithium polymer) are used now to power electric motors and pack more amperage in a small size than Li-Ions do - but they are more dangerous yet and have burned many houses down if not handled correctly.

You see? I told you I needed to research the newer technology. You kindly taught me some things about the LiFePO4 batteries I had wrong. I thought they were capable of higher amperage output. Thank you for the mini lesson on the newer battery technologies. It was the LiPo batteries that caused so many fires in the hover boards just a few years ago, was it not?

I never got into the gliders. We had a couple of guys in our club that flew them. They were generally a thorn in the side of most of the other RC pilots. Their big wingspan, slow flying, planes were hogging up the airspace of the hot rods. I never saw, or heard of, a midair collision between a glider and a faster plane. But, it was a contentious relationship. OTOH, there were frequently collisions between the faster planes. Given a little time, the glider pilots would catch a thermal and get altitude well beyond where most guys wanted to fly. I never had a problem with them. But, never joined them in their enthusiasm for the gliders either.

Long after I stopped flying, the club lost its lease on their land and had to move. They’re now on some military owned land. There are some severe restrictions on the altitude they can fly. Gliders would not be much fun. I would still like to have a go at the battery powered sport planes. I might have to spend some time learning about them, and the current generation of radio gear, and give it a try. Between motorcycles, firearms and cameras, there are hardly enough hours in a day (or dollars) to take on another hobby. Just thinking about those old days brings back some wonderful memories. Thanks for jogging those memories. And thanks to the other forum members for tolerating our conversation way off topic.

Thanks and you are jogging my memory too. We'll take it private after this, but check out this new breed of super light weight but very stong little powered gliders. They thermal like crazy! E-flite Conscendo Evolution 1.5m BNF Basic with AS3X and SAFE Select | Horizon Hobby

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Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
The first digital image was made in the late '60's for NASA, as a way to record images of Mars. Each "square" was represented by three numbers, corresponding to the red, green, and blue hue on a scale of 0 to 255. This eliminated the need to ship film back to Earth.

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S 70-200mm F2.8E FL ED VR Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
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