Battery Charging Management

Started 3 months ago | Questions
Daisuski New Member • Posts: 4
Battery Charging Management

I have a ZII with the battery model EN-EL 15c, which I understand it the latest, fast charging type.

I’ve checked the Z6ii / Z7ii reference manual (pp 43, 44), searched various Nikon websites and generally Googled but can find no answer whatsoever to the issue of management or cycling of the battery.

Being old school, I automatically try to deep cycle any Li battery, in order to counter any memory effort and so hopefully ensure prolonged life and rapid charging. Is this correct?

I also want to buy a power pack, for charging the camera on the move. These generally come at two charging rates (26800 mAh and 1000) but what is the best rate in order to ensure effective changing and a long battery life.

I therefore think that Li batteries haven’t changed much over the decades, if you don’t deep cycle them, or charge at the right rate, they’ll deteriorate and fail quickly. Am I correct?

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madecov
madecov Veteran Member • Posts: 6,248
Re: Battery Charging Management
4

Lithium batteries do not suffer from memory effect. They are best stored at about 40% for long term storage.

Deep discharge isn't absolutely necessary, and can damage a lithium battery. But they do have a life cycle, generally around 200 charge / discharge cycles.

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topg Forum Member • Posts: 75
Re: Battery Charging Management
2

Daisuski wrote:

I therefore think that Li batteries haven’t changed much over the decades, if you don’t deep cycle them, or charge at the right rate, they’ll deteriorate and fail quickly. Am I correct?

Neither of these are correct.

"The smaller the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine. There is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life."

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

mAh is a measure of the battery capacity, not the charging rate.

Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 5,268
Re: Battery Charging Management
3

madecov wrote:

Lithium batteries do not suffer from memory effect. They are best stored at about 40% for long term storage.

Deep discharge isn't absolutely necessary, and can damage a lithium battery. But they do have a life cycle, generally around 200 charge / discharge cycles.

Excellent answer. The only thing I might disagree with is the number of charge/discharge cycles. I think it's probably closer to double your number. It is dependent on how extreme the discharge and charge rates are. High rates will reduce the number of cycles (life). That's not so much of a concern with the discharge rate our cameras place on the battery. We have no control over this. Note that I'm talking about discharge rate, not level.

Personally, I try to swap batteries at, or not much below, the 20% level. That's probably a bit on the cautious side, but I always have plenty of batteries on hand. I never allow a battery to become totally discharged.

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Steve

madecov
madecov Veteran Member • Posts: 6,248
Re: Battery Charging Management

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

madecov wrote:

Lithium batteries do not suffer from memory effect. They are best stored at about 40% for long term storage.

Deep discharge isn't absolutely necessary, and can damage a lithium battery. But they do have a life cycle, generally around 200 charge / discharge cycles.

Excellent answer. The only thing I might disagree with is the number of charge/discharge cycles. I think it's probably closer to double your number. It is dependent on how extreme the discharge and charge rates are. High rates will reduce the number of cycles (life). That's not so much of a concern with the discharge rate our cameras place on the battery. We have no control over this. Note that I'm talking about discharge rate, not level.

Personally, I try to swap batteries at, or not much below, the 20% level. That's probably a bit on the cautious side, but I always have plenty of batteries on hand. I never allow a battery to become totally discharged.

My Nikon batteries seem to have a better life cycle. My 18650 lithium batteries run a bit over the 200 cycle.

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Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 5,268
Re: Battery Charging Management
1

topg wrote:

Daisuski wrote:

I therefore think that Li batteries haven’t changed much over the decades, if you don’t deep cycle them, or charge at the right rate, they’ll deteriorate and fail quickly. Am I correct?

Neither of these are correct.

"The smaller the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine. There is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life."

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

mAh is a measure of the battery capacity, not the charging rate.

Absolutely true about not deep discharging Li-ion batteries. The Battery University site you link to is a great information website on battery technology. I have used that site for years.

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Steve

Digital Shutterbug Veteran Member • Posts: 5,268
Re: Battery Charging Management

madecov wrote:

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

madecov wrote:

Lithium batteries do not suffer from memory effect. They are best stored at about 40% for long term storage.

Deep discharge isn't absolutely necessary, and can damage a lithium battery. But they do have a life cycle, generally around 200 charge / discharge cycles.

Excellent answer. The only thing I might disagree with is the number of charge/discharge cycles. I think it's probably closer to double your number. It is dependent on how extreme the discharge and charge rates are. High rates will reduce the number of cycles (life). That's not so much of a concern with the discharge rate our cameras place on the battery. We have no control over this. Note that I'm talking about discharge rate, not level.

Personally, I try to swap batteries at, or not much below, the 20% level. That's probably a bit on the cautious side, but I always have plenty of batteries on hand. I never allow a battery to become totally discharged.

My Nikon batteries seem to have a better life cycle. My 18650 lithium batteries run a bit over the 200 cycle.

I number all of my batteries based on their age. When I remove battery number 3 from the camera, I replace it with battery number 4. All of my batteries are then cycled, as opposed to just randomly grabbing one and having some batteries be used a lot, while others don't get used.

However, I don't track the number of charge/discharge cycles. They last until I recognize them as not properly holding a charge while in storage, or not lasting what I deem to be a normal life during usage. It's nothing really scientific on my part. Just experience.

What I know is that my batteries typically last for years. I get my moneys worth out of them. And, I'm not one of those people that places OEM batteries on a pedestal above aftermarket batteries. I don't look for the cheapest battery on Ebay, but stick with well known aftermarket brands. Wasabi has been my favorite. However, my Wasabi batteries that worked fine in my Z7, will not work at all in my Z7 II. It spits up a failure error immediately on power up. I've switched to B&M batteries. I'll see how they hold up over time.

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Steve

1llusive
1llusive Veteran Member • Posts: 3,397
Re: Battery Charging Management
1

Daisuski wrote:

I have a ZII with the battery model EN-EL 15c, which I understand it the latest, fast charging type.

I’ve checked the Z6ii / Z7ii reference manual (pp 43, 44), searched various Nikon websites and generally Googled but can find no answer whatsoever to the issue of management or cycling of the battery.

Being old school, I automatically try to deep cycle any Li battery, in order to counter any memory effort and so hopefully ensure prolonged life and rapid charging. Is this correct?

I also want to buy a power pack, for charging the camera on the move. These generally come at two charging rates (26800 mAh and 1000) but what is the best rate in order to ensure effective changing and a long battery life.

I therefore think that Li batteries haven’t changed much over the decades, if you don’t deep cycle them, or charge at the right rate, they’ll deteriorate and fail quickly. Am I correct?

DO NOT "deep cycle" Li-ion battery cells. There is no memory effect and taking them to both empty and full degrades them.

20-80% is the best operating range for long life, and storing them at around 1/2 is the least stressful on them.

The charger that comes with the camera is so fast that I tend to pull the plug before it's done. Most of the time I find a hot battery that's at 90% which is more than enough. Operating temps are another thing that causes excess degradation.

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ggbutcher
ggbutcher Contributing Member • Posts: 960
Re: Battery Charging Management
1

For my Z 6, I ordered a second Nikon battery from B&H; got caught up in that third-party battery confusion they had, and in short the result for for me was I ended up with three Nikon batteries. I've just done with them what I've done with all my previous cameras, mark each one then just use them in rotation , using a battery until the camera complains.

Of note is I'm still doing just that with my Nikon D50, with the batteries procured in 2006...

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Jestertheclown
Jestertheclown Veteran Member • Posts: 3,122
Re: Battery Charging Management
1

Digital Shutterbug wrote:

madecov wrote:

Lithium batteries do not suffer from memory effect. They are best stored at about 40% for long term storage.

Deep discharge isn't absolutely necessary, and can damage a lithium battery. But they do have a life cycle, generally around 200 charge / discharge cycles.

Excellent answer. The only thing I might disagree with is the number of charge/discharge cycles. I think it's probably closer to double your number. It is dependent on how extreme the discharge and charge rates are. High rates will reduce the number of cycles (life). That's not so much of a concern with the discharge rate our cameras place on the battery. We have no control over this. Note that I'm talking about discharge rate, not level.

Personally, I try to swap batteries at, or not much below, the 20% level.

My Z7 cries enough at about 15% so you're about right.

That's probably a bit on the cautious side, but I always have plenty of batteries on hand. I never allow a battery to become totally discharged.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"

Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 7,427
Re: Battery Charging Management
2

Daisuski wrote:

I have a ZII with the battery model EN-EL 15c, which I understand it the latest, fast charging type.

I’ve checked the Z6ii / Z7ii reference manual (pp 43, 44), searched various Nikon websites and generally Googled but can find no answer whatsoever to the issue of management or cycling of the battery.

Being old school, I automatically try to deep cycle any Li battery, in order to counter any memory effort and so hopefully ensure prolonged life and rapid charging. Is this correct?

It's the old NiCad's and NiMh batteries that liked to be deep cycled, not Li-Lions, Lead-acid, or LifePO4's.  Our phones are Li-Ion chemistry too so treat them well with no deep cycling if possible.

I also want to buy a power pack, for charging the camera on the move. These generally come at two charging rates (26800 mAh and 1000) but what is the best rate in order to ensure effective changing and a long battery life.

I therefore think that Li batteries haven’t changed much over the decades, if you don’t deep cycle them, or charge at the right rate, they’ll deteriorate and fail quickly. Am I correct?

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OP Daisuski New Member • Posts: 4
Re: Battery Charging Management

Thank you everyone for correcting my failed memory, it comes from going from a F4 to Z7ii. It’s been a shock!

I would to add a adjunct:-

According to a YouTuber, the Nikon battery grip for the Z7ii discharges the second battery ahead of ever using the first. I’ve yet to gain experience on this but common sense would imply that I should rotate these two batteries under conditions of causal photography.

MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,994
Re: Battery Charging Management
1

Daisuski wrote:

, the Nikon battery grip for the Z7ii discharges the second battery ahead of ever using the first. I’ve yet to gain experience on this but common sense would imply that I should rotate these two batteries under conditions of causal photography.

Nikon’s choice allows for changing the depleted battery w/o cutting power to the camera

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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Michael
Michael Contributing Member • Posts: 657
Re: Battery Charging Management
3

I've honestly never put much thought into my batteries - I just use them and recharge them when I need to - so they have seen all kinds of scenarios - full depletion and partial.

I currently have 4 of the new EN_EL15c types to use with the battery grip and three of the 'b' version that are about two years old

I've just never really noticed any issues with the batteries and if I get at least two good years out of them and find I need to buy replacements at that point so be it.

Life is too short to micro-manage my battery usage and charging in my opinion.

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Jestertheclown
Jestertheclown Veteran Member • Posts: 3,122
Re: Battery Charging Management

Michael wrote:

Life is too short to micro-manage my battery usage and charging in my opinion.

My thoughts exactly.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"

James Grove
James Grove Senior Member • Posts: 1,183
Re: Battery Charging Management
1

Completely agree, never had any issues with Nikon batteries, the cells are Japanese and have always been extremely good, regardless of the charging routine

Barleyman
Barleyman Contributing Member • Posts: 503
Re: Battery Charging Management

Michael wrote:

I've honestly never put much thought into my batteries - I just use them and recharge them when I need to - so they have seen all kinds of scenarios - full depletion and partial.

I currently have 4 of the new EN_EL15c types to use with the battery grip and three of the 'b' version that are about two years old

I've just never really noticed any issues with the batteries and if I get at least two good years out of them and find I need to buy replacements at that point so be it.

Life is too short to micro-manage my battery usage and charging in my opinion.

Where's the fun in arguing about that??? 

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Barleyman
Barleyman Contributing Member • Posts: 503
Re: Battery Charging Management
3

I use my batteries randomly and don't worry about it.

I must not use my batteries much,  as my 5 year old  EN-EL15  that I got with my D7200 still shows as being "New"  in the battery info page of my camera.

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OP Daisuski New Member • Posts: 4
Re: Battery Charging Management

Thanks for your comment!

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