RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

Before I go too far down the digital development hole, using Capture 1 v20, is it better to import my 2,000 RAW+JPEG images from my media card into separate RAW and JPEG folders? The import would be a session, not a catalog I think.

I should note that I may edit some JPEGS too.

I don't have a workflow, don't ask.

I will use the JPEGS to figure out which images I will process. The rest I won't.

Thanks!

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OP viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

Bump- thanks

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David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 4,350
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

Why are you using jpegs to decide which images to keep instead of viewing the raw files?

If an app and/or catalogue can't be used to view raw files, I would not be interested in it.

I don't use jpegs at all except for sharing purposes.

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OP viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

David1961 wrote:

Why are you using jpegs to decide which images to keep instead of viewing the raw files?

If an app and/or catalogue can't be used to view raw files, I would not be interested in it.

I don't use jpegs at all except for sharing purposes.

The RAW preview images off to the right in Capture 1 are not as real looking, they haven't been processed. The JPEGS look more life-life and I use those as an estimate of what I will process for RAW.

I use Jpegs for sharing as well.

I know I can import both files into the same folder, and only view either the JPEG or the RAWs in the preview pane by selecting a feature to hide one of the file types. But I was wondering if putting JPEGS in their own sub-folder, and RAWs in their own-folder wold make things more challenging later on during RAW processing.

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David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 4,350
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

For me, the raw preview doesn't need to look totally like a final edited image for me to decide whether it is a keeper or not.

Just experiment with different work flows, since you say you don't have one, and see which works best for you.

What works for someone else might not work for you and vice-versa.

The only time I output jpegs is for sharing.

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OP viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

I’ll have to see.

Curious, how come RAW works fine for previews for you?

C1 for my Nikon- the images are always lighter than my JPEGs

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baloo_buc Forum Pro • Posts: 10,477
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

Separate them. Also separate the RAWs you want to process from the others. The embedded JPEG is identical with the JPEG saved on the card. It is just very compressed (JPEG Basic).

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David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 4,350
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

viper699 wrote:

I’ll have to see.

Curious, how come RAW works fine for previews for you?

C1 for my Nikon- the images are always lighter than my JPEGs

The jpeg embedded into the raw file for previewing purposes should be a thumbnail size version of the one that is outputted separately by your camera onto the card when you shoot jpegs.

Maybe your app is doing something if you see significant difference between your sooc jpeg and the raw preview.

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OP viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

baloo_buc wrote:

Separate them. Also separate the RAWs you want to process from the others. The embedded JPEG is identical with the JPEG saved on the card. It is just very compressed (JPEG Basic).

Thanks- why do you recommend separating the RAW from JPEG, and why separate the RAWs from the RAWs I want to work on?

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OP viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

David1961 wrote:

viper699 wrote:

I’ll have to see.

Curious, how come RAW works fine for previews for you?

C1 for my Nikon- the images are always lighter than my JPEGs

The jpeg embedded into the raw file for previewing purposes should be a thumbnail size version of the one that is outputted separately by your camera onto the card when you shoot jpegs.

Maybe your app is doing something if you see significant difference between your sooc jpeg and the raw preview.

The JPEGS I’m always mentioning are not preview images, ie they are not embedded images.

I use the RAW+JPEG mode to capture both simultaneously.

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David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 4,350
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

Earlier you posted -

"I know I can import both files into the same folder, and only view either the JPEG or the RAWs in the preview pane by selecting a feature to hide one of the file types."

When viewing the raw's you are viewing the jpeg embedded into the raw.

The embedded raw should be a thumbnail size version of the sooc jpeg you view.

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Canon EOS 90D
OP viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

David1961 wrote:

Earlier you posted -

"I know I can import both files into the same folder, and only view either the JPEG or the RAWs in the preview pane by selecting a feature to hide one of the file types."

When viewing the raw's you are viewing the jpeg embedded into the raw.

The embedded raw should be a thumbnail size version of the sooc jpeg you view.

The preview pane of the RAWs is showing the embedded JPEG? Didn’t know this. The actually JPEGs I see are rich and vibrant, not the RAW or rather these embedded JPEGs

thanks

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David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 4,350
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

viper699 wrote:

David1961 wrote:

Earlier you posted -

"I know I can import both files into the same folder, and only view either the JPEG or the RAWs in the preview pane by selecting a feature to hide one of the file types."

When viewing the raw's you are viewing the jpeg embedded into the raw.

The embedded raw should be a thumbnail size version of the sooc jpeg you view.

The preview pane of the RAWs is showing the embedded JPEG? Didn’t know this.

Seems strange since you replied to baloo_buc's post.

The actually JPEGs I see are rich and vibrant, not the RAW or rather these embedded JPEGs

Then your viewing application and/or your camera are doing something unusual.

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Canon EOS 90D
OP viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

My camera is fine.

I am new to Capture-1

The one thing I know is that Nikon doesn’t share its image algorithm with Cap1 programmers. So C1 can render an approximation I believe, but not exactly see what the camera has captured.

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David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 4,350
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

They wouldn't need to.

Your camera creates a jpeg according to the "picture style" settings you have set in your camera.

The camera should then embed a thumbnail size copy of the jpeg into the raw file.

The thumbnail, which is what you see when you preview a raw, and the sooc jpeg should then look pretty much the same in your application because they are the same image.

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Dave_J_E Regular Member • Posts: 116
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?
3

My advice differs from that of the other posters. In my experience with Capture One 20 (for Sony), jpeg files embedded in the raw file are not used for preview purposes. Instead, when a raw file is imported into a Session, a so called Preview File is generated which is seen in the Viewer and a thumbnail version of this is generated and appears in the Browser. The size of the preview file can be set in the Preferences/Image section and one recommendation is to set this to your screen width. It is a reasonably large file but considerably smaller than the raw. It is sort of the working file if you like (except for 100% view) and the raw file is not called on until you export a jpeg or tiff etc.

The preview file (and the thumbnail) display the editing changes as you make them.

Interestingly I've found that my Sony raw preview files are reasonably close to a jpeg shot under raw+jpeg (with a Creative Style of Standard for the  jpeg). I certainly don't need to use a jpeg for culling purposes.

I'd urge you to persevere with just importing the raws into the Capture folder. You should get to judge the image potential from the raw preview file alone fairly well after a while.

Dave

OP viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

David1961 wrote:

They wouldn't need to.

Your camera creates a jpeg according to the "picture style" settings you have set in your camera.

The camera should then embed a thumbnail size copy of the jpeg into the raw file.

The thumbnail, which is what you see when you preview a raw, and the sooc jpeg should then look pretty much the same in your application because they are the same image.

Well in the preview pane I see 2 files, a Jpg and raw. The raw is lighter. I’ve emailed the company. Did some reading too, and this is what is expected from the quick reading I did. We will see

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OP viper699 Contributing Member • Posts: 759
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

Dave_J_E wrote:

My advice differs from that of the other posters. In my experience with Capture One 20 (for Sony), jpeg files embedded in the raw file are not used for preview purposes. Instead, when a raw file is imported into a Session, a so called Preview File is generated which is seen in the Viewer and a thumbnail version of this is generated and appears in the Browser. The size of the preview file can be set in the Preferences/Image section and one recommendation is to set this to your screen width. It is a reasonably large file but considerably smaller than the raw. It is sort of the working file if you like (except for 100% view) and the raw file is not called on until you export a jpeg or tiff etc.

The preview file (and the thumbnail) display the editing changes as you make them.

Interestingly I've found that my Sony raw preview files are reasonably close to a jpeg shot under raw+jpeg (with a Creative Style of Standard for the jpeg). I certainly don't need to use a jpeg for culling purposes.

I'd urge you to persevere with just importing the raws into the Capture folder. You should get to judge the image potential from the raw preview file alone fairly well after a while.

Dave

I have C1 Pro v20. I’ll ask them if the camera brand C1 versions render images like Pro, esp because your RAW look similar to your JPEGs.

Mine are all more faint, it’s weird to me, but I’m a film person, new to digital.

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Dave_J_E Regular Member • Posts: 116
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?
1

viper699 wrote:

Dave_J_E wrote:

My advice differs from that of the other posters. In my experience with Capture One 20 (for Sony), jpeg files embedded in the raw file are not used for preview purposes. Instead, when a raw file is imported into a Session, a so called Preview File is generated which is seen in the Viewer and a thumbnail version of this is generated and appears in the Browser. The size of the preview file can be set in the Preferences/Image section and one recommendation is to set this to your screen width. It is a reasonably large file but considerably smaller than the raw. It is sort of the working file if you like (except for 100% view) and the raw file is not called on until you export a jpeg or tiff etc.

The preview file (and the thumbnail) display the editing changes as you make them.

Interestingly I've found that my Sony raw preview files are reasonably close to a jpeg shot under raw+jpeg (with a Creative Style of Standard for the jpeg). I certainly don't need to use a jpeg for culling purposes.

I'd urge you to persevere with just importing the raws into the Capture folder. You should get to judge the image potential from the raw preview file alone fairly well after a while.

Dave

I have C1 Pro v20. I’ll ask them if the camera brand C1 versions render images like Pro, esp because your RAW look similar to your JPEGs.

Mine are all more faint, it’s weird to me, but I’m a film person, new to digital.

My understanding is that the (paid) camera brand specfic versions are basically the same as the full PRO version. With the brand specific versions, they simply restrict the types of raw file you can access. The quality of the camera profiles for the different brands may vary though.

If it's color you are mainly concerned with you can make a custom camera profile quite easily by going into the color editor and making changes on a sample image such as increasing the saturation. Then click on the three dots in a row and select "Save as ICC Profile". You can then use this camera profile for future edits to achieve similar color enhancements. These will show up in the preview and thumbnail files.

Dave

David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 4,350
Re: RAW+JPEG in C1?- better to separate or not?

Can you post a link to what you read?

I am not convinced there should be a large difference between the raw preview and sooc jpeg.

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