Comparison of primes on M6II and R, and general comparison of M6II with R

thunder storm wrote:

MAC wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

Let's face it:

The 85mm f/2.0 IS stm could be sharper (I should peep some pixels on this), yes it's stabilized which you will never get on M, and yes it has a half way macro thing, however,,,,,,

the overall look of the Sigma 56mm f/1.4 is simply better. The RF 85mm is not as bad as the RF 50mm, but it's backgrounds do draw attention more than they should.

Sometimes I think i should replace the RF 85mm f/2.0 with the EF f/1.4 IS USM L. Yes, that one is 950 grams in stead of 500, however, it's still 690 grams less than the 105mm Art. The L has some fringing, but if you shoot it at f/2.0 most of the time that fringing will likely be gone anyway. Or maybe save up for the RF 50mm f/1.2 L and just forget about that whole 85mm focal length. Or just sell the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm and use the 50mm f/1.4 Art in stead.

The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is usable when you don't have demanding backgrounds. It's also usable for half way macro shots, and for landscapes. But it isn't a true macro lens, a a true macro lens should handle busy backgrounds better than this lens does.

Maybe it's all my fault for getting that 105mm first and waiting for a more compact option next to it after that, but when I see those 56mm handling this background way more pleasing I think the RF 85mm is a bit disappointing here.

I’m with you on this.

If I needed an 85 to put food on the table I’d just get the RF 85 f/1.2L, but now I’d rather put the big bucks elsewhere (like into the upcoming RF 100L Macro).

I can see myself spending the bucks on a 70-200mm f/2.8 one day or the 50mm L, but 3000 euro for a less often used 85mm...... that won't ever happen anyway.

And there’s no indoor sports going on around here yet, so I haven’t been able to test out my RF 85 f/2’s autofocus properly. The IQ is certainly good enough for that application (esp when matched up with FF). But if the RF 85 f/2’s AF can’t cut it, then like you, the EF 85 f/1.4L is waiting in the wings.

That’ll solve my FF needs. However for crop, the Sigma 56 f/1.4 is about perfect on my M6ii. Fast enough AF for sports, with very very good IQ, and nice bokeh (as has been demonstrated). I’m very happy with it when I need that focal length on crop.

R2

I'm reconsidering how useful 50mm really is as an all round focal length. Probably I should try to convert myself to the 35mm religion. As it comes to landscapes it turned out the 35mm f/2.0 IS USM might have done a better job than the Samyang XP, and the same could be true for the 24mm IS USM, or the standard zoom when it's too hard to choose or change.

If so, I might use the RF mount for 24mm, 35mm, 50mm low light, and the 105 (in cases I'm willing to carry that monster and need all the blur I can get), and keep M for the 11-22mm, 50mm equivalent for walk around purposes, the sigma 56mm f/1.4 for portable portrait prime needs, and the 50-100mm f/1.8 as the portrait zoom.

The only remaining question for now is the differences in sharpness between the sigma 56mm and the RF 85mm f/2.0. The overall look of the sigma is better, however, I'm not willing to trade a whole lot of detail for that.

R U Sure About This?

A few samples can deceive

My RF 85 F2IS is tack sharp on the eyes, gives pleasing blur, and has IS and partial macro and the control ring for EC

Not sure if the blur is worth it to me. It's better than my standard zoom at 70mm&f/2.8,

true

however, it's not as good as my 50 art, 105mm art,

true

and the 56mm f/1.4.

I'm not sure about this, one would have to evaluate under a lot of different backdrops and with a lot of different in camera settings

OTOH: if I decide it's not sharp enough there's nothing truly portable left. At that point I have to decide to get the EF L, or ditch the focal length al together.

not sure if 3 cams is a very practical solution.....

MAC wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

Not sure if the blur is worth it to me. It's better than my standard zoom at 70mm&f/2.8,

true

however, it's not as good as my 50 art, 105mm art,

true

and the 56mm f/1.4.

I'm not sure about this, one would have to evaluate under a lot of different backdrops and with a lot of different in camera settings

I should shoot them side by side for a view months......

Hi guys, i know this is like a 1 year old thread, but i need to know your experience specifically with the overall focusing system for m6mkii vs the R (upgrade apsc to fullframe). Just how much better or how far can the eye tracking locks and sticks? Hows the overall behavior of the autofocus between these 2 bodies. Is it a worthy upgrade in peformance? (autofocus). I dont mind the 14fps vs 5fps, im used to shooting the 3fps speed for literally everything so having 5fps is considered an upgrade. (14fps is awesome but a nuisance for my style of shooting.)

Currently rocking the m6mkii exclusively with the 22mm and 56mm. I've done mostly weddings and small cooperate events (indoor and outdoor), but there are times where i have to shoot small indoor sports events, studio works, stage works, basically anything if i was called and paid for.

I know the RP laggs behind the M6mkii so upgrading to that is not gonna be a good idea... the R6/R5 is a dream but is just to much to justify as im not a full time photographer. But as a hardcore hobbyist and side hustle,(doing what i love) it does contributes to 30-40% of my annual income. So the only logical upgrade for me is the R + 35 1.8 and 85 f2.0. (literally the cost of a r6 BODY ONLY😂)

Thank you, This is a helpful post.   I plan to keep my M50 but I did buy an R7.   A full frame will be nice to have at some point.

HawkLee wrote:

Hi guys, i know this is like a 1 year old thread, but i need to know your experience specifically with the overall focusing system for m6mkii vs the R (upgrade apsc to fullframe). Just how much better or how far can the eye tracking locks and sticks? Hows the overall behavior of the autofocus between these 2 bodies. Is it a worthy upgrade in peformance? (autofocus). I dont mind the 14fps vs 5fps, im used to shooting the 3fps speed for literally everything so having 5fps is considered an upgrade. (14fps is awesome but a nuisance for my style of shooting.)

Currently rocking the m6mkii exclusively with the 22mm and 56mm. I've done mostly weddings and small cooperate events (indoor and outdoor), but there are times where i have to shoot small indoor sports events, studio works, stage works, basically anything if i was called and paid for.

I know the RP laggs behind the M6mkii so upgrading to that is not gonna be a good idea... the R6/R5 is a dream but is just to much to justify as im not a full time photographer. But as a hardcore hobbyist and side hustle,(doing what i love) it does contributes to 30-40% of my annual income. So the only logical upgrade for me is the R + 35 1.8 and 85 f2.0. (literally the cost of a r6 BODY ONLY😂)

AF is not the driving issue - both I'd rate as ok

for paid work, you need two bodies

for paid work, you should have dual slots

the R6 was designed for paid work indoors but is expensive

on the m6II -- I'd also get m32 f1.4 and DXO PL5 with deep prime for class leading Noise Redux

you could make that work along with an R7 and a 70-200 F2.8 and DXO PL5

HawkLee wrote:

Hi guys, i know this is like a 1 year old thread, but i need to know your experience specifically with the overall focusing system for m6mkii vs the R (upgrade apsc to fullframe). Just how much better or how far can the eye tracking locks and sticks?

I don't have any numbers, but to me the difference is significant.

Hows the overall behavior of the autofocus between these 2 bodies.

The M6II focuses faster, but for the sticking-with-the-subject-part of AF the R is better.  The R will still leave you wanting the R6 though.

Is it a worthy upgrade in peformance? (autofocus).

For speed: no.  The R focuses slower. For sticky tracking the R is better, but worth it is something else.

I dont mind the 14fps vs 5fps, im used to shooting the 3fps speed for literally everything so having 5fps is considered an upgrade. (14fps is awesome but a nuisance for my style of shooting.)

Currently rocking the m6mkii exclusively with the 22mm and 56mm. I've done mostly weddings and small cooperate events (indoor and outdoor), but there are times where i have to shoot small indoor sports events, studio works, stage works, basically anything if i was called and paid for.

I know the RP laggs behind the M6mkii so upgrading to that is not gonna be a good idea... the R6/R5 is a dream but is just to much to justify as im not a full time photographer. But as a hardcore hobbyist and side hustle,(doing what i love) it does contributes to 30-40% of my annual income. So the only logical upgrade for me is the R + 35 1.8 and 85 f2.0.

Well, I wouldn't recommend the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm + R for events work.  The body could AF a bit better, but with this lens combined I think the M6II + 56mm f/1.4  using the right technique (single point AF doing the tracking yourself with the touch screen)  will give better results for AF.

(literally the cost of a r6 BODY ONLY😂)

If you want best AF the R6 would still leave you with the problem which affordable fast and accurate focusing prime you should get.  If you're going with a different mount anyway the Sony FE platform might give you better options, especially when budget is a factor.  A used A7III + Samyang FE 85mm f/1.4 or Sony 85mm f/1.8 might be the better option.  The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a very nice lens with some strong points, but it's AF is not suitable for event work. I'd even prefer the M6II + 56mm f/1.4 over the R + RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm for AF performance..

MAC wrote:

AF is not the driving issue - both I'd rate as ok

for paid work, you need two bodies

for paid work, you should have dual slots

the R6 was designed for paid work indoors but is expensive

Dual slots have never been an issue for me, but i do have some lvl of anxiety that out of the blue my sd card will corrupt hahaha. And im keeping the toy looking m6mkii even if i upgraded to a full frame(my main target, not interested at the r10 / r7 at all). Its small, its fun and its autofocus is a huge upgrade for me ( been using 70D for like 7-8 years before)

on the m6II -- I'd also get m32 f1.4 and DXO PL5 with deep prime for class leading Noise Redux

you could make that work along with an R7 and a 70-200 F2.8 and DXO PL5

Eager to test out the 32mm f1.4 but im comfortable enough with the 22mm ( good old 35mm) and the 56mm sigma. Might adapt an Ef 70-200 to my m6 mark ii and try out the DXO PL5 thinggy. I've heard its the best in its class for NR.

Most of the lighting on my events / night wedding, even with the f1.4 56mm @ 1/125 shutter(1/90 if desperate), iso is dangerously close to the limit 6400 iso(most of the time im using auto iso set limit to 6400), yet alone a f2.8 glass (70-200) for sure will need iso 12800 which is pretty unusable for me. But there's IS on the 70-200 so that might help if i go as low as 1/60... i hope?? (more than 100mm with 1/60 shutter? Thats probably pushing my luck LoL)

Anyway, Will study and try DXO PL5 and hope it can clean up noise without drastically reduce sharpness and quality better than lightroom haha.

thunder storm wrote:

I don't have any numbers, but to me the difference is significant.

The M6II focuses faster, but for the sticking-with-the-subject-part of AF the R is better. The R will still leave you wanting the R6 though.

For speed: no. The R focuses slower. For sticky tracking the R is better, but worth it is something else.

Damn.. so i guess im skipping the R and go for the R6 then.. but hopefully IF a RP mk ii or R mk ii comes out before i achieve my R6 fundings  and carries the dual pixel 2.0 like the r10,r7,r6,r5 and price is cheaper than the R6. That would be a great option for me (fingers cross) till then eyes on R6 i guess.. ( target mid of 2023)

Well, I wouldn't recommend the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm + R for events work. The body could AF a bit better, but with this lens combined I think the M6II + 56mm f/1.4 using the right technique (single point AF doing the tracking yourself with the touch screen) will give better results for AF.

If you want best AF the R6 would still leave you with the problem which affordable fast and accurate focusing prime you should get. If you're going with a different mount anyway the Sony FE platform might give you better options, especially when budget is a factor. A used A7III + Samyang FE 85mm f/1.4 or Sony 85mm f/1.8 might be the better option. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a very nice lens with some strong points, but it's AF is not suitable for event work. I'd even prefer the M6II + 56mm f/1.4 over the R + RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm for AF performance..

Tempted for sony since im upgrading from the dead eos M system anyway, basically is like starting new with all the fancy RF lens. But where im from, a7iii price is just a tad higher if not the same as the eos R and the a7iv is about 10-15% higher than the R6. Not to mention the sony ecosystem and outdated a7iii interface.  So i think canon will be my main pick here (i do love and respect the capabilities for the sony system, not to mention the 3rd party accessibility unlike canon RF)

But since the 85mm f2 is not suitable for fast phase environment, any other recommendations? Like the sigma non art ef 85mm 1.4(a used art version is 50-60% more expensive than a brand new 85mm f2 LoL) or the rf samyang 85mm 1.4 or viltrox 85mm 1.4 or better yet, just adapt the vietnam war tech ef 85mm 1.8 haha.

I've heard that with the latest body(r6 r5) 3rd party lenses are buggy and not accurate although its fast in the focusing department.

HawkLee wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

I don't have any numbers, but to me the difference is significant.

The M6II focuses faster, but for the sticking-with-the-subject-part of AF the R is better. The R will still leave you wanting the R6 though.

For speed: no. The R focuses slower. For sticky tracking the R is better, but worth it is something else.

Damn.. so i guess im skipping the R and go for the R6 then.. but hopefully IF a RP mk ii or R mk ii comes out before i achieve my R6 fundings and carries the dual pixel 2.0 like the r10,r7,r6,r5 and price is cheaper than the R6. That would be a great option for me (fingers cross) till then eyes on R6 i guess.. ( target mid of 2023)

Well, I wouldn't recommend the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm + R for events work. The body could AF a bit better, but with this lens combined I think the M6II + 56mm f/1.4 using the right technique (single point AF doing the tracking yourself with the touch screen) will give better results for AF.

If you want best AF the R6 would still leave you with the problem which affordable fast and accurate focusing prime you should get. If you're going with a different mount anyway the Sony FE platform might give you better options, especially when budget is a factor. A used A7III + Samyang FE 85mm f/1.4 or Sony 85mm f/1.8 might be the better option. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a very nice lens with some strong points, but it's AF is not suitable for event work. I'd even prefer the M6II + 56mm f/1.4 over the R + RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm for AF performance..

Tempted for sony since im upgrading from the dead eos M system anyway, basically is like starting new with all the fancy RF lens. But where im from, a7iii price is just a tad higher if not the same as the eos R and the a7iv is about 10-15% higher than the R6. Not to mention the sony ecosystem and outdated a7iii interface. So i think canon will be my main pick here (i do love and respect the capabilities for the sony system, not to mention the 3rd party accessibility unlike canon RF)

But since the 85mm f2 is not suitable for fast phase environment, any other recommendations? Like the sigma non art ef 85mm 1.4(a used art version is 50-60% more expensive than a brand new 85mm f2 LoL)

My used EF 85mm Art was 600 euro, whereas my RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm was 680 euro new.

The Art focuses definitely better than the RF 85mm f/2.0 for events, but if you want to rely on eye/face tracking it's not always dead on.  My 105mm f/1.4 Art is close to perfect, but that's another price category and a less flexible focal length.

or the rf samyang 85mm 1.4

The 85mm Art is better.

or viltrox 85mm 1.4

I don't know this lens.

or better yet, just adapt the vietnam war tech ef 85mm 1.8 haha.

Probably not

I've heard that with the latest body(r6 r5) 3rd party lenses are buggy and not accurate although its fast in the focusing department.

My advice is steering you towards Sony for a reason.  Canon wants to sell you a 70-200mm f/2.8  to get all the AF goodness of the R6, or the RF 85mm f/1.2.  The 85mm f/2.0 has cr*ppled AF, and Canon is actively discouraging third party manufacturers to produce fast focusing affordable RF 85mm primes.

So if you are planning to shoot events with affordable primes the RF mount is the wrong platform for you.

I've tried the Tamron EF f/1.8 VC SP, the EF Sigma Art, the Samyang RF f/1.4, but so far there is no 85mm focusing as good as my EF 105&40mm f/1.4  Art and EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM mkII.

All in all it's the R6 + Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art as kind of sufficient solution for AF without paying L prices against the A7IV + ... well, a lot of good light weight affordable fast focusing options there.  If your events are about shooting in the lowest light possible Canon is a bit better.  If it's more about accuracy and not the lowest light ever for a reasonable price the A7IV + affordable FE 85mm option is your probably the way to go.

Personally I'm saving up for the RF 50mm f/1.2 L  as the gap between the Sigma 40mm Art and 105mm Art is too big to make it work.  I'm giving up on the 85mm focal length. It will be 50 or 105mm for me.  The RF 85mm f/1.2 L is too expensive, and the 105mm Art is good enough, and sometimes a bit longer is a good thing.

HawkLee wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

I don't have any numbers, but to me the difference is significant.

The M6II focuses faster, but for the sticking-with-the-subject-part of AF the R is better. The R will still leave you wanting the R6 though.

For speed: no. The R focuses slower. For sticky tracking the R is better, but worth it is something else.

Damn.. so i guess im skipping the R and go for the R6 then..

R6 and RF 35 f1.8 + RF 85 F2  will be way to go

but hopefully IF a RP mk ii or R mk ii comes out before i achieve my R6 fundings and carries the dual pixel 2.0 like the r10,r7,r6,r5 and price is cheaper than the R6. That would be a great option for me (fingers cross) till then eyes on R6 i guess.. ( target mid of 2023)

Well, I wouldn't recommend the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm + R for events work. The body could AF a bit better, but with this lens combined I think the M6II + 56mm f/1.4 using the right technique (single point AF doing the tracking yourself with the touch screen) will give better results for AF.

If you want best AF the R6 would still leave you with the problem which affordable fast and accurate focusing prime you should get. If you're going with a different mount anyway the Sony FE platform might give you better options, especially when budget is a factor. A used A7III + Samyang FE 85mm f/1.4 or Sony 85mm f/1.8 might be the better option. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a very nice lens with some strong points, but it's AF is not suitable for event work. I'd even prefer the M6II + 56mm f/1.4 over the R + RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm for AF performance..

Tempted for sony since im upgrading from the dead eos M system anyway, basically is like starting new with all the fancy RF lens. But where im from, a7iii price is just a tad higher if not the same as the eos R and the a7iv is about 10-15% higher than the R6. Not to mention the sony ecosystem and outdated a7iii interface. So i think canon will be my main pick here (i do love and respect the capabilities for the sony system, not to mention the 3rd party accessibility unlike canon RF)

But since the 85mm f2 is not suitable for fast phase environment, any other recommendations? Like the sigma non art ef 85mm 1.4(a used art version is 50-60% more expensive than a brand new 85mm f2 LoL) or the rf samyang 85mm 1.4 or viltrox 85mm 1.4 or better yet, just adapt the vietnam war tech ef 85mm 1.8 haha.

I've heard that with the latest body(r6 r5) 3rd party lenses are buggy and not accurate although its fast in the focusing department.

MAC wrote:

HawkLee wrote:

Damn.. so i guess im skipping the R and go for the R6 then..

R6 and RF 35 f1.8 + RF 85 F2 will be way to go

A big +1

For pro event shooting, this is your entry ticket.  The R6 is far more capable than the R and RP as far as Eye AF goes (or the M6ii for that matter).  The RF 85/2 is fast enough to do events, but if you need faster AF (for sports), then the Sigma 85 Art or the Canon 85/1.4L would be viable options.

Grow your business using these basic primes, then save everything up for one of the gob-smacking RF standard zooms (28-70/2 if you can swing it, otherwise the 24-70/2.8).  And then the powerful RF 70-200/2.8 after that.

Add DxO PL5 no matter what kit you shoot!

If you want to stay cheap as possible, keep using the (amazing) little M6ii, and add the excellent EF-M 32/1.4 (on sale now).  Stay with Spot AF.  Keeper rates rival my R5/R6, but I admit that Eye AF is very addictive!  

Best of luck with your decision!

R2

HawkLee wrote:

Hi guys, i know this is like a 1 year old thread, but i need to know your experience specifically with the overall focusing system for m6mkii vs the R (upgrade apsc to fullframe). Just how much better or how far can the eye tracking locks and sticks? Hows the overall behavior of the autofocus between these 2 bodies. Is it a worthy upgrade in peformance? (autofocus). I dont mind the 14fps vs 5fps, im used to shooting the 3fps speed for literally everything so having 5fps is considered an upgrade. (14fps is awesome but a nuisance for my style of shooting.)

Currently rocking the m6mkii exclusively with the 22mm and 56mm. I've done mostly weddings and small cooperate events (indoor and outdoor), but there are times where i have to shoot small indoor sports events, studio works, stage works, basically anything if i was called and paid for.

I know the RP laggs behind the M6mkii so upgrading to that is not gonna be a good idea... the R6/R5 is a dream but is just to much to justify as im not a full time photographer. But as a hardcore hobbyist and side hustle,(doing what i love) it does contributes to 30-40% of my annual income. So the only logical upgrade for me is the R + 35 1.8 and 85 f2.0. (literally the cost of a r6 BODY ONLY😂)

My experience is a little different from thunderstorm's. I don't experience the R as focusing slower than my M6II (it might depend on lenses, of course). The R does pick up an eye from further away, which is the biggest difference I see. It also has more customization options for the AF. For stage work, the R is more than adequate, excellent in fact. For fast indoor sports, you would probably be happier with an R6, but the R would still give you plenty of keepers, if you're happy with 5fps. Another possibility is the R7, which has a superb AF system, and really good low light performance when used with something like DXO. The R6 will be a stop better, of course, but the price difference might allow you to get faster lenses with the R7. Without a money tree in your backyard, it's all about compromises. If you can get a chance to handle an R, I would do that to see whether it would suit you. Likewise with an R6 and even an R7. I find the the R with 35 F1.8 and 85 F2 to be very capable.

R2D2 wrote:

MAC wrote:

HawkLee wrote:

Damn.. so i guess im skipping the R and go for the R6 then..

R6 and RF 35 f1.8 + RF 85 F2 will be way to go

A big +1

For pro event shooting, this is your entry ticket. The R6 is far more capable than the R and RP as far as Eye AF goes (or the M6ii for that matter). The RF 85/2 is fast enough to do events, but if you need faster AF (for sports), then the Sigma 85 Art or the Canon 85/1.4L would be viable options.

I forgot about the Canon EF f/1.4 L.   People have reported that's the fastest focusing 85mm you can get for the R6, better than the Sigma Art.  Probably the best choice for events beside the RF f/1.2.

Grow your business using these basic primes, then save everything up for one of the gob-smacking RF standard zooms (28-70/2 if you can swing it, otherwise the 24-70/2.8). And then the powerful RF 70-200/2.8 after that.

Add DxO PL5 no matter what kit you shoot!

If you want to stay cheap as possible, keep using the (amazing) little M6ii, and add the excellent EF-M 32/1.4 (on sale now). Stay with Spot AF. Keeper rates rival my R5/R6, but I admit that Eye AF is very addictive!

Best of luck with your decision!

R2

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

MAC wrote:

HawkLee wrote:

Damn.. so i guess im skipping the R and go for the R6 then..

R6 and RF 35 f1.8 + RF 85 F2 will be way to go

A big +1

For pro event shooting, this is your entry ticket. The R6 is far more capable than the R and RP as far as Eye AF goes (or the M6ii for that matter). The RF 85/2 is fast enough to do events,

$499

but if you need faster AF (for sports), then the Sigma 85 Art or the Canon 85/1.4L would be viable options.

I forgot about the Canon EF f/1.4 L.

$1600

People have reported that's the fastest focusing 85mm you can get for the R6, better than the Sigma Art. Probably the best choice for events beside the RF f/1.2.

Grow your business using these basic primes, then save everything up for one of the gob-smacking RF standard zooms (28-70/2 if you can swing it, otherwise the 24-70/2.8). And then the powerful RF 70-200/2.8 after that.

Add DxO PL5 no matter what kit you shoot!

If you want to stay cheap as possible, keep using the (amazing) little M6ii, and add the excellent EF-M 32/1.4 (on sale now). Stay with Spot AF. Keeper rates rival my R5/R6, but I admit that Eye AF is very addictive!

Best of luck with your decision!

R2