Buying advice - swimming camera!

Yesterday I posted this query in the buying advice discussion thread - and have been directed here (not knowing this thread existed - first rookie error!)
For the last few years I have been using an Olympus TG5 almost daily in the sea/freshwater. It's been a blast, but it is time to upgrade. My other camera is an Olympus EM1 MKII.
I don't really dive, but during the summer I use a snorkel and in winter I swim with the TG5 and use it to record some of the beautiful scenery I get to see (as well as underwater scenery, wildlife, pictures of friends in the water etc). The TG5 has been great fun but image quality is lacking (except for macro), RAW files are poor to pointless and there is no manual control.
I am thinking of a high quality compact like the Panasonic LX100 with a Nauticam housing (total price about £1,800), or a Sony RX100 V with a Fantasea Housing (a bit cheaper), because I don't want to be carrying something as bulky as the EM1 plus housing. The Canon G1 XIII has good reviews but with a housing it is prohibitively expensive (TBH - £1800 is pushing it - but spending too little might leave me wanting to upgrade again very soon).
I think I want a camera that is very portable/pocketable and that I can use in or out of the water to save lugging two sets of gear around as well as my swimming kit (especially in the winter, when warm and waterproof post-swim clothing is essential). I'm more of an enthusiastic enthusiast than a professional - but image quality still really matters.
Does anyone out there use this combination of gear - or have advice about what else might be available or suitable? I have wondered about a Sealife brand camera - but know nothing about the brand or which model is good.

Any advice gratefully taken on board.

You're exploring questions that most of us have, and I'm not sure there is really an answer here.

As you go up in image quality, the tendency for the flexibility of the camera seems to go down.   You basically end up with very specialized equipment.  In my case I went from a series of Canon point-n-shoots to an RX100 II in a Nauticam housing with dual strobes and then to a D810 in a Nauticam housing.  Currently a D850 in a Nauticam housing.

With my Canons and the Sony, I could shoot a wide range of subjects, but not true macro, and not really very wide either.   But I had zooming at least.

With the RX100 purchase, I was hoping to solve the problems of the point-n-shoots.  First by adding dual strobes, which just made an absolutely huge difference.   Second, by fixing the slow autofocus issue of the point-n-shoots.  (Last one of those was a Canon SD870is by the way).

The reason I only used the RX100 for a year was that it did not solve the slow autofocus issue of the point-n-shoots.  Compared to the Canons I had been using, I essentially had a bigger-sensored point-n-shoot with a significantly worse user interface.  (Sony menus suck.)

At least I had more flexbility, supposedly.  I bought a pair of wet lenses, a small dome port for wide angle and a macro port.  I never ended up even trying the wide dome, and I couldn't get the macro lens to focus.  (I think I needed to be much much closer).

With the D810, my macro issues were solved.  My autofocus speed issues were solved.  My resolution issues (cropping) were solved.  With my strobes, I never had such high quality images, especially macro.   My wide angle issues were ... moved along.  I had bad corners before, and not much width.  Now I had extreme width, but corners were still poor even stopping down a lot.

What did I give up?  Flexibility.   First off, I had two lens choices: 16-35 and 105vr.   If you look around you'll see that FX cameras underwater have a very limited set of lens options, with nothing in the midrange.

Also, portability.  My camera gear now fills a carry-on roller bag, a carry-on waist bag AND a bit more space in a suitcase.  Carrying the camera to the boat reminds me that the rig weighs more than 30 pounds out of the water.

Compared to your current camera, you could get much better macro, at the cost of being able to shoot almost anything else on the same dive.   Put on a wide angle lens and you can forget macro on that dive.   Want to shoot a diver from head to fin?   If you have a 105mm lens on, you're backing up so far you can't use flash and you'll get a lot of backscatter and particles between you.     You definitely give up things when moving to an interchangeable lens camera.

But - those big-sensor point-n-shoots may or may not have enough autofocus speed for you.   I know the newer Sony's are faster than the older ones, but I don't know if they rival a DSLR yet, and DSLR focus speed is where you want to be.

MaggieS wrote:

Yesterday I posted this query in the buying advice discussion thread - and have been directed here (not knowing this thread existed - first rookie error!)
For the last few years I have been using an Olympus TG5 almost daily in the sea/freshwater. It's been a blast, but it is time to upgrade. My other camera is an Olympus EM1 MKII.
I don't really dive, but during the summer I use a snorkel and in winter I swim with the TG5 and use it to record some of the beautiful scenery I get to see (as well as underwater scenery, wildlife, pictures of friends in the water etc). The TG5 has been great fun but image quality is lacking (except for macro), RAW files are poor to pointless and there is no manual control.
I am thinking of a high quality compact like the Panasonic LX100 with a Nauticam housing (total price about £1,800), or a Sony RX100 V with a Fantasea Housing (a bit cheaper), because I don't want to be carrying something as bulky as the EM1 plus housing. The Canon G1 XIII has good reviews but with a housing it is prohibitively expensive (TBH - £1800 is pushing it - but spending too little might leave me wanting to upgrade again very soon).
I think I want a camera that is very portable/pocketable and that I can use in or out of the water to save lugging two sets of gear around as well as my swimming kit (especially in the winter, when warm and waterproof post-swim clothing is essential). I'm more of an enthusiastic enthusiast than a professional - but image quality still really matters.
Does anyone out there use this combination of gear - or have advice about what else might be available or suitable? I have wondered about a Sealife brand camera - but know nothing about the brand or which model is good.

Any advice gratefully taken on board.

I looked for underwater housing for OM-10 or PEN-F but found Meikon had housing for Sony A6300. I've got the A6300 and Meikon Housing (about $200 USD) for less than more proish housing. A6300 seems not available new anymore.

A6300 is not pocketable but close, imho and it's APS-C. Mostly, I set it up before the dive and just clicking away and been lucky to get some memorable photos.

Meikon has R100 series housing which are the top pocketable.

I'm no pro in photography nor diving but it served me well. If you prefer video, paralenz is all the rage for the divers.

Sealife is great for JPEG but for the best WB correction, raw files are essential and sealife is way too slow for RAW shooting. Now sure if they have a newer camera.

Good luck,

Hey there,

Im a scuba and freedive photographer so keep that in mind while reading my response

I just recently upgraded my underwater rig from a Sony RX100Va inside a FantaseaLine housing to an Olympus E-PL10 (it comes with a 14-42mm lens) inside an AOI housing. the basic kit costs about $1,200 from Backscatter . I also added on the 60mm macro and an 8mm fisheye (you will need new ports for each lens).  Backscatter recommended the E-PL10 as an upgrade from the TG line of cameras, I am still learning the E-PL10 but I am really enjoying the camera and the photos that come out of it.  If you have any questions about the E-PL10 let me know and Ill be glad to answer them as I can. I have also added on a tray and external lighting to my setup.

You could also look into a housing for your EM1.2 you would be spending about $1,600, Housing for $1300 and the lens port for $350.  You wouldn't even need to consider a second camera this way.

As I'm typing out this post the conversion is £1 = $1.35 so you might be saving a bit more money.

I have a buddy who just bought a sealife camera, It took decent photos in the first 10-15ft (2-3m) of water but deeper than this he needed to add on external lighting.  this makes the system bulky and large. He is happy with his photos as they look good on his phone post dive, but he has no desire to print them in the near future.

MaggieS wrote:

Yesterday I posted this query in the buying advice discussion thread - and have been directed here (not knowing this thread existed - first rookie error!)
For the last few years I have been using an Olympus TG5 almost daily in the sea/freshwater. It's been a blast, but it is time to upgrade. My other camera is an Olympus EM1 MKII.
I don't really dive, but during the summer I use a snorkel and in winter I swim with the TG5 and use it to record some of the beautiful scenery I get to see (as well as underwater scenery, wildlife, pictures of friends in the water etc). The TG5 has been great fun but image quality is lacking (except for macro), RAW files are poor to pointless and there is no manual control.
I am thinking of a high quality compact like the Panasonic LX100 with a Nauticam housing (total price about £1,800), or a Sony RX100 V with a Fantasea Housing (a bit cheaper), because I don't want to be carrying something as bulky as the EM1 plus housing. The Canon G1 XIII has good reviews but with a housing it is prohibitively expensive (TBH - £1800 is pushing it - but spending too little might leave me wanting to upgrade again very soon).
I think I want a camera that is very portable/pocketable and that I can use in or out of the water to save lugging two sets of gear around as well as my swimming kit (especially in the winter, when warm and waterproof post-swim clothing is essential). I'm more of an enthusiastic enthusiast than a professional - but image quality still really matters.
Does anyone out there use this combination of gear - or have advice about what else might be available or suitable? I have wondered about a Sealife brand camera - but know nothing about the brand or which model is good.

Any advice gratefully taken on board.

Unless you have said you are not satified with IQ of the TG-5, I would have recommended you a TG series camera for snorkeling...

When you want substantial improvement in IQ you need a better camera, from compact 1" to FF. I believe the difference in size (with housing and port) between e.g. LX100 and your EM1II is not so big to justify the aquisition of a third camera (and IQ with EM1II and dedicated lens is certainly better compared to compact).

I would house the EM1II for WA (e.g. 8mm fisheye with 4" (or Nauticam 140) domeport; in case you can invest more money, I recommend the Canon 8-15mm fisheye for comparable IQ, but more flexibility in angle of view). For Macro I would continue to use the TG, as a first step...

Freedivers that want the very best IQ (at natural light, that is always low), go often with FF camera and Nauticam WACP (or a fisheye behind Nauticam 140 domeport) for WA, but EM1II is already very good...

Wolfgang

kelpdiver wrote:

Architeuthis wrote:

I would house the EM1II for WA (e.g. 8mm fisheye with 4" (or Nauticam 140) domeport; in case you can invest more money, I recommend the Canon 8-15mm fisheye for comparable IQ, but more flexibility in angle of view). For Macro I would continue to use the TG, as a first step...

Freedivers that want the very best IQ (at natural light, that is always low), go often with FF camera and Nauticam WACP (or a fisheye behind Nauticam 140 domeport) for WA, but EM1II is already very good...

Wolfgang

just don't tell her the price tags on any of these!

He, he - so welcome to the world of UW photography...

Maybe Magies problem with IQ on the TG is that she does not know yet how to work around the lack of manual mode with this camera. I do not use TG, but have heard that UW-photographers have paradigms to achieve this, e.g.:

https://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/Olympus-TG-5-Best-Underwater-Camera-Settings

https://www.uwphotographyguide.com/olmypus-tg-5-tg-6-settings

http://www.divephotoguide.com/underwater-photography-special-features/article/olympus-tg-5-settings-for-underwater-photography-video/

Maybe this helps and then there is no reason to make any investment, an additional wet WA lens may provide more creative possibilities. When the aim is to shoot friends splashing in the water, a TG is, to my opinion, more than sufficient. But of course this is a hobby and so what is the optimum is very personal ..

I doubt that a "naked" compact camera with standard optics and -port will be a substantial upgrade, worth the money. In order to be so, that will require a WA wetlens as e.g. WWL-1, not to talk about diopters for macro and flashes. And then the bulkiness and price tag looks different...

Therefore I recommend to house the EM1II with fisheye (eventually Maggie already owns the 8mm Zuiko or Pana) with a minidome. The minidome sells for 900$ and a Nauticam housing for EM1II for 2000$ (I got my NA-EM1II second hand two years ago for 1300$). Admittedly the Canon 8-15mm fisheye is an excellent, but expensive lens. A "relatively" cheap (cheap in terms of UW-photography ) and still very good alternative is the Tokina 10-17mm fisheye with Metabones 1x adapter (In case the native 8mm fisheye is not already owned, this is the lens to go when on budget). This, to my opinion, would be a great setup for a freediver...

When I go snorkeling I usually do not take lights and flashes with me (too bulky, when snorkelling with animals as e.g. the dolphins below), just EM1II, housing, domeport (in my case the Nauticam 140 domeport, but Zen DP100 miniport would be very similar, even less bulky) and fisheye (in my case Canon 8-15mm, but Zuiko or Pana 8mm will be identical, however without the possibility to zoom out). See here examples:

Snorkeling with a 180° fisheye (Canon 8-15mm @9mm in this case; Nauticam domeport 140mm)

This one shows the advantage of a zoom fisheye (taken @15mm; Canon 8-15mm and Nauticam domeport 140)

My wife snorkeling with a similar setup: EM5II in Nauticam housing, Zen DP170 and Tokina 10-17mm fisheye. Photographed with my EM1II "snorkeling" setup described above...

Wolfgang

Thank you. I have been thinking more about this option.