Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
farmersteve
farmersteve Senior Member • Posts: 1,035
Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

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Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,085
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5.  They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

farmersteve
OP farmersteve Senior Member • Posts: 1,035
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

We'll have to see what they come up with. I'd rather someone come out with a new SLR for under $1000, but that ship has sailed apparently...

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Tomm111 Senior Member • Posts: 1,133
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

I am a Leica fan, but they have been making almost the same camera since 1953, slight upgrades. The current M-A hasn't changed much since the M-7. So they are using the same parts, dyes and design, don't know why they can't sell it for less money.

The CL was discontinued because Minolta was making more and more of the camera, so Leica sold them the rights to the name. But Minolta found it was hard to sell a rangefinder if your name wan't Leica.

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farmersteve
OP farmersteve Senior Member • Posts: 1,035
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021
2

Tomm111 wrote:

I am a Leica fan, but they have been making almost the same camera since 1953, slight upgrades. The current M-A hasn't changed much since the M-7. So they are using the same parts, dyes and design, don't know why they can't sell it for less money.

The CL was discontinued because Minolta was making more and more of the camera, so Leica sold them the rights to the name. But Minolta found it was hard to sell a rangefinder if your name wan't Leica.

You don't know why they can't sell it for less? It's all marketing hype at this point. It's a veblen goods product.

"A Veblen good is a type of luxury good for which the demand for a good increases as the price increases, in apparent contradiction of the law of demand, resulting in an upward-sloping demand curve. A higher price may make a product desirable as a status symbol in the practices of conspicuous consumption and conspicuous leisure"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

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tassienick Senior Member • Posts: 1,457
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

You might want to read the original post on Leica Rumours, as Kosmo has made a lot out of very little. No where does it say that this will sell for less than $3000. The author speculates (acknowledging that they don’t know) that it will be priced below the M-A (currently $5200).

My guess is that it won’t be under $4000. It doesn’t fit the Leica brand to make a genuinely affordable camera.

Bags27 Senior Member • Posts: 1,079
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

We can guess at the cost.

But the lenses are what especially interest me. There is solid rumor (ha!) that Karbe is working on a new generation of super high rez M lenses. These are for the 10M & 10R and their successors.

But there's an inventory of contemporary M lenses that will be left in the dust of the new ones, unless there's expanded need for them, which would be on film.* So the new cheaper film Ms will help soak up at least some of these lenses.

*Though when I shoot with a 35 f/1.4 FLE on my M4-P, the photos look almost as digital as those from my M10.

tassienick Senior Member • Posts: 1,457
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Bags27 wrote:

We can guess at the cost.

But the lenses are what especially interest me. There is solid rumor (ha!) that Karbe is working on a new generation of super high rez M lenses. These are for the 10M & 10R and their successors.

But there's an inventory of contemporary M lenses that will be left in the dust of the new ones, unless there's expanded need for them, which would be on film.* So the new cheaper film Ms will help soak up at least some of these lenses.

*Though when I shoot with a 35 f/1.4 FLE on my M4-P, the photos look almost as digital as those from my M10.

Leica has always released stunning new lenses, and it's never managed to make the stunning old lenses any cheaper or less popular

Bob Bobson Regular Member • Posts: 108
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

People buy Leicas either because they have the money or they're just a person who buys a Leica because its a Leica and don't ask why the second person makes sense because they never will.

Not to a rational person who can buy a Leica III and put a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm M42 lens on it and have a camera that's just as good for about $1000.

Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,085
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

People buy Leicas either because they have the money or they're just a person who buys a Leica because its a Leica and don't ask why the second person makes sense because they never will.

Not to a rational person who can buy a Leica III and put a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm M42 lens on it and have a camera that's just as good for about $1000.

I was making a slightly more specific point, but my (lack of) knowledge of the $4000+ new Leicas got the better of me - I meant a M2 vs a M-A. Prices are more or less the same though.

But I did find a nice flowchart to help you pick your Leica - (bottom of) https://jonathannotley.com/blog-content/2018/1/27/which-leica-to-buy-first

Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,085
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

farmersteve wrote:

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

We'll have to see what they come up with. I'd rather someone come out with a new SLR for under $1000, but that ship has sailed apparently...

You might find this interesting (it’s not just about the F6) - https://austerityphoto.co.uk/the-last-film-slr-the-nikon-f6-is-gone-long-live-the-film-slr/

Bob Bobson Regular Member • Posts: 108
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

People buy Leicas either because they have the money or they're just a person who buys a Leica because its a Leica and don't ask why the second person makes sense because they never will.

Not to a rational person who can buy a Leica III and put a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm M42 lens on it and have a camera that's just as good for about $1000.

I was making a slightly more specific point, but my (lack of) knowledge of the $4000+ new Leicas got the better of me - I meant a M2 vs a M-A. Prices are more or less the same though.

But I did find a nice flowchart to help you pick your Leica - (bottom of) https://jonathannotley.com/blog-content/2018/1/27/which-leica-to-buy-first

The M3 is only the original if you're not talking about the M42 (universal mount) Leicas before it.

Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,085
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

People buy Leicas either because they have the money or they're just a person who buys a Leica because its a Leica and don't ask why the second person makes sense because they never will.

Not to a rational person who can buy a Leica III and put a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm M42 lens on it and have a camera that's just as good for about $1000.

I was making a slightly more specific point, but my (lack of) knowledge of the $4000+ new Leicas got the better of me - I meant a M2 vs a M-A. Prices are more or less the same though.

But I did find a nice flowchart to help you pick your Leica - (bottom of) https://jonathannotley.com/blog-content/2018/1/27/which-leica-to-buy-first

The M3 is only the original if you're not talking about the M42 (universal mount) Leicas before it.

I think you mean M39 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_lens_mount (and even then it’s a bit more complicated than that). M42 is a different mount ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M42_lens_mount ) - I use that on my Praktica.

Bob Bobson Regular Member • Posts: 108
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

People buy Leicas either because they have the money or they're just a person who buys a Leica because its a Leica and don't ask why the second person makes sense because they never will.

Not to a rational person who can buy a Leica III and put a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm M42 lens on it and have a camera that's just as good for about $1000.

I was making a slightly more specific point, but my (lack of) knowledge of the $4000+ new Leicas got the better of me - I meant a M2 vs a M-A. Prices are more or less the same though.

But I did find a nice flowchart to help you pick your Leica - (bottom of) https://jonathannotley.com/blog-content/2018/1/27/which-leica-to-buy-first

The M3 is only the original if you're not talking about the M42 (universal mount) Leicas before it.

I think you mean M39 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_lens_mount (and even then it’s a bit more complicated than that). M42 is a different mount ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M42_lens_mount ) - I use that on my Praktica.

M39 but yes that is also universal mount... OK whatever... The point is when you stick an Ultron on a IIIf (the crowning achievement of flash sync.) You have a Leica in every sense of the word with a better gem on it than most "Leica" M purists could have with a brighter viewfinder due to the viewfinder/rangefinder separation...

If you don't need speed of course (as the III never went over 1/1000 shutter speed) but you shouldn't if you choose the right film speed to begin with... I was arguing the point that you could have one for about $1000 with one of the best lenses (and that's what matters in the end) that would be better than what most people could afford in an M for about 3-4 times that price.
But you wanted to have a semantics troll argument again... with the "I think you mean" comments which is why forums and Facebook groups are now toxic.

FWIW: I was in the process of editing my post to include these points and corrections like most good academics and journalists do... before some clown butted in with another "letter to the editor" with a Karen like:

"Excuse me sir I THINK YA MEAN!"

Unfortunately, once a troll zaps you like that on this archaic forum that's been around since 1999, you can no longer edit to represent the facts.

Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,085
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021
1

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

People buy Leicas either because they have the money or they're just a person who buys a Leica because its a Leica and don't ask why the second person makes sense because they never will.

Not to a rational person who can buy a Leica III and put a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm M42 lens on it and have a camera that's just as good for about $1000.

I was making a slightly more specific point, but my (lack of) knowledge of the $4000+ new Leicas got the better of me - I meant a M2 vs a M-A. Prices are more or less the same though.

But I did find a nice flowchart to help you pick your Leica - (bottom of) https://jonathannotley.com/blog-content/2018/1/27/which-leica-to-buy-first

The M3 is only the original if you're not talking about the M42 (universal mount) Leicas before it.

I think you mean M39 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_lens_mount (and even then it’s a bit more complicated than that). M42 is a different mount ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M42_lens_mount ) - I use that on my Praktica.

M39 but yes that is also universal mount... OK whatever... The point is when you stick an Ultron on a IIIf (the crowning achievement of flash sync.) You have a Leica in every sense of the word with a better gem on it than most "Leica" M purists could have with a brighter viewfinder due to the viewfinder/rangefinder separation...

If you don't need speed of course (as the III never went over 1/1000 shutter speed) but you shouldn't if you choose the right film speed to begin with... I was arguing the point that you could have one for about $1000 with one of the best lenses (and that's what matters in the end) that would be better than what most people could afford in an M for about 3-4 times that price.
But you wanted to have a semantics troll argument again... with the "I think you mean" comments which is why forums and Facebook groups are now toxic.

FWIW: I was in the process of editing my post to include these points and corrections like most good academics and journalists do... before some clown butted in with another "letter to the editor" with a Karen like:

"Excuse me sir I THINK YA MEAN!"

And a happy new year to you, too !

Bob Bobson Regular Member • Posts: 108
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021
1

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

People buy Leicas either because they have the money or they're just a person who buys a Leica because its a Leica and don't ask why the second person makes sense because they never will.

Not to a rational person who can buy a Leica III and put a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm M42 lens on it and have a camera that's just as good for about $1000.

I was making a slightly more specific point, but my (lack of) knowledge of the $4000+ new Leicas got the better of me - I meant a M2 vs a M-A. Prices are more or less the same though.

But I did find a nice flowchart to help you pick your Leica - (bottom of) https://jonathannotley.com/blog-content/2018/1/27/which-leica-to-buy-first

The M3 is only the original if you're not talking about the M42 (universal mount) Leicas before it.

I think you mean M39 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_lens_mount (and even then it’s a bit more complicated than that). M42 is a different mount ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M42_lens_mount ) - I use that on my Praktica.

M39 but yes that is also universal mount... OK whatever... The point is when you stick an Ultron on a IIIf (the crowning achievement of flash sync.) You have a Leica in every sense of the word with a better gem on it than most "Leica" M purists could have with a brighter viewfinder due to the viewfinder/rangefinder separation...

If you don't need speed of course (as the III never went over 1/1000 shutter speed) but you shouldn't if you choose the right film speed to begin with... I was arguing the point that you could have one for about $1000 with one of the best lenses (and that's what matters in the end) that would be better than what most people could afford in an M for about 3-4 times that price.
But you wanted to have a semantics troll argument again... with the "I think you mean" comments which is why forums and Facebook groups are now toxic.

FWIW: I was in the process of editing my post to include these points and corrections like most good academics and journalists do... before some clown butted in with another "letter to the editor" with a Karen like:

"Excuse me sir I THINK YA MEAN!"

And a happy new year to you, too !

It's not the first time you've tried to Overrank me sir... I'm sorry.

tassienick Senior Member • Posts: 1,457
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021
1

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

Bob Bobson wrote:

Overrank wrote:

farmersteve wrote:

So, instead of $3000, it will be cheaper (whatever that is). If they did it at $999, I might be tempted!

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/12/leica-planning-cheaper-film-camera-for-2021/

Leica have a poor history of making cheap M mount rangefinders - the CL allegedly was cancelled because it stole sales from the M5. They’re not the only ones to do this of course.

What I don’t understand is why you’d want to buy a new M-P for £4000 vs getting a M3 for £1300 and giving it a £300 service.

People buy Leicas either because they have the money or they're just a person who buys a Leica because its a Leica and don't ask why the second person makes sense because they never will.

Not to a rational person who can buy a Leica III and put a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm M42 lens on it and have a camera that's just as good for about $1000.

I was making a slightly more specific point, but my (lack of) knowledge of the $4000+ new Leicas got the better of me - I meant a M2 vs a M-A. Prices are more or less the same though.

But I did find a nice flowchart to help you pick your Leica - (bottom of) https://jonathannotley.com/blog-content/2018/1/27/which-leica-to-buy-first

The M3 is only the original if you're not talking about the M42 (universal mount) Leicas before it.

I think you mean M39 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_lens_mount (and even then it’s a bit more complicated than that). M42 is a different mount ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M42_lens_mount ) - I use that on my Praktica.

M39 but yes that is also universal mount... OK whatever... The point is when you stick an Ultron on a IIIf (the crowning achievement of flash sync.)

I don’t think a 40mm Ultron exists in LTM/M39...

You have a Leica in every sense of the word with a better gem on it than most "Leica" M purists could have with a brighter viewfinder due to the viewfinder/rangefinder separation...

Have you used a IIIf and M body? The IIIf VF may be brighter (I don’t think it is), but it’s also like peering down the end of a pen lid...

If you don't need speed of course (as the III never went over 1/1000 shutter speed) but you shouldn't if you choose the right film speed to begin with... I was arguing the point that you could have one for about $1000 with one of the best lenses (and that's what matters in the end) that would be better than what most people could afford in an M for about 3-4 times that price.
But you wanted to have a semantics troll argument again... with the "I think you mean" comments which is why forums and Facebook groups are now toxic.

FWIW: I was in the process of editing my post to include these points and corrections like most good academics and journalists do... before some clown butted in with another "letter to the editor" with a Karen like:

"Excuse me sir I THINK YA MEAN!"

Unfortunately, once a troll zaps you like that on this archaic forum that's been around since 1999, you can no longer edit to represent the facts.

Bob Bobson Regular Member • Posts: 108
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

As said above if I had time I would have edited my post. I've used a III at one point and sold it at another because I'm not a huge rangefinder fan. While the viewfinder IS smaller, it's much brighter than the M as it doesn't have to do two jobs at once.

It's beside the point, if it bothers you that much just get an external viewfinder that is parallax corrected for the lens. There are plenty of them... Just like with my Mamiya Universal Press I sold it for.

I'm sorry for being neurodiverse and having brain fog where my mind sometimes confuses things due to my depression/anxiety... That's just me, take it or leave it...

Jvlahakis
Jvlahakis Senior Member • Posts: 1,019
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Isn't Leica and cheap in the same sentence an oxymoron?

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Bob Bobson Regular Member • Posts: 108
Re: Leica to produce a cheaper film camera in 2021

Jvlahakis wrote:

Isn't Leica and cheap in the same sentence an oxymoron?

What I was going to say before I confused M39 and M42 is that you can build a fairly cheap Leica camera if you really want one.

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