GF 4/120 D.O.A.

Started Dec 30, 2020 | Discussions
tokyowalker Regular Member • Posts: 152
GF 4/120 D.O.A.

So my GF 4/120 arrived. Something was literally banging around inside the lens, I could see the inner element from the rear moving fore and aft actually. I attached it to the camera anyway, and it seemed to focus. However it went straight back into its packaging and I returned it. Perhaps the box took a hard tumble in shipping.  On the plus side I dragged out the Techart and figured out how to upgrade it.

I’m assuming the loose component is not normal. Please correct me if I’m wrong though!

Erik Kaffehr
Erik Kaffehr Veteran Member • Posts: 6,308
Re: GF 4/120 D.O.A.
1

tokyowalker wrote:

So my GF 4/120 arrived. Something was literally banging around inside the lens, I could see the inner element from the rear moving fore and aft actually. I attached it to the camera anyway, and it seemed to focus. However it went straight back into its packaging and I returned it. Perhaps the box took a hard tumble in shipping. On the plus side I dragged out the Techart and figured out how to upgrade it.

I’m assuming the loose component is not normal. Please correct me if I’m wrong though!

Hi,

It may be that you just see a voice coil drive focusing group in action...

Best regards

Erik

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Erik Kaffehr
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Magic uses to disappear in controlled experiments…
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OP tokyowalker Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: GF 4/120 D.O.A.

Erik Kaffehr wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

So my GF 4/120 arrived. Something was literally banging around inside the lens, I could see the inner element from the rear moving fore and aft actually. I attached it to the camera anyway, and it seemed to focus. However it went straight back into its packaging and I returned it. Perhaps the box took a hard tumble in shipping. On the plus side I dragged out the Techart and figured out how to upgrade it.

I’m assuming the loose component is not normal. Please correct me if I’m wrong though!

Hi,

It may be that you just see a voice coil drive focusing group in action...

Best regards

Erik

Thanks. It was something audible, actually even after repacking if I tilted the box I could hear it from inside. Is that normal?

Erik Kaffehr
Erik Kaffehr Veteran Member • Posts: 6,308
Re: GF 4/120 D.O.A.

tokyowalker wrote:

Erik Kaffehr wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

So my GF 4/120 arrived. Something was literally banging around inside the lens, I could see the inner element from the rear moving fore and aft actually. I attached it to the camera anyway, and it seemed to focus. However it went straight back into its packaging and I returned it. Perhaps the box took a hard tumble in shipping. On the plus side I dragged out the Techart and figured out how to upgrade it.

I’m assuming the loose component is not normal. Please correct me if I’m wrong though!

Hi,

It may be that you just see a voice coil drive focusing group in action...

Best regards

Erik

Thanks. It was something audible, actually even after repacking if I tilted the box I could hear it from inside. Is that normal?

Hi,

I don't know!
But, a lot of GFX users have discussed 'clunky' sounds from GF lenses.
What is 'normal' or 'intended'? It is hard to know.

Best regards

Erik

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Website: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net
Magic uses to disappear in controlled experiments…
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Articles: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles

Rand 47
Rand 47 Senior Member • Posts: 1,481
Re: GF 4/120 D.O.A.
2

tokyowalker wrote:

So my GF 4/120 arrived. Something was literally banging around inside the lens, I could see the inner element from the rear moving fore and aft actually. I attached it to the camera anyway, and it seemed to focus. However it went straight back into its packaging and I returned it. Perhaps the box took a hard tumble in shipping. On the plus side I dragged out the Techart and figured out how to upgrade it.

I’m assuming the loose component is not normal. Please correct me if I’m wrong though!

Well, I hate to say it, but the replacement new lens you receive will just about 100% guaranteed, do exactly the same thing.  While I don’t understand exactly how it works, the OIS and AF drive control that “moving whatever it is.”   Many many people have posted over  time, “Is there something wrong with my lens?”  The answer is “they all do that.”  Mine does, and it works perfectly and his so sharp you could hurt yourself with it!  😃

I can appreciate the “shock” of taking a brand new lens out of the packaging and hear something flopping about.  Fuji should put a sticker on the bag the lens is in saying, “They all do that!”  LOL  Seriously.

Rand

JimKasson
MOD JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 36,158
Re: GF 4/120 D.O.A.

tokyowalker wrote:

So my GF 4/120 arrived. Something was literally banging around inside the lens, I could see the inner element from the rear moving fore and aft actually. I attached it to the camera anyway, and it seemed to focus. However it went straight back into its packaging and I returned it. Perhaps the box took a hard tumble in shipping. On the plus side I dragged out the Techart and figured out how to upgrade it.

I’m assuming the loose component is not normal. Please correct me if I’m wrong though!

No power applied to coils in lens when not mounted to camera, therefor no control of moving elements. "Clunking" should feel slightly damped, like lens elements are running into hard rubber stops.

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Theia Regular Member • Posts: 472
Re: GF 4/120 D.O.A.

Rand 47 wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

So my GF 4/120 arrived. Something was literally banging around inside the lens, I could see the inner element from the rear moving fore and aft actually. I attached it to the camera anyway, and it seemed to focus. However it went straight back into its packaging and I returned it. Perhaps the box took a hard tumble in shipping. On the plus side I dragged out the Techart and figured out how to upgrade it.

I’m assuming the loose component is not normal. Please correct me if I’m wrong though!

Well, I hate to say it, but the replacement new lens you receive will just about 100% guaranteed, do exactly the same thing. While I don’t understand exactly how it works, the OIS and AF drive control that “moving whatever it is.” Many many people have posted over time, “Is there something wrong with my lens?” The answer is “they all do that.” Mine does, and it works perfectly and his so sharp you could hurt yourself with it! 😃

I can appreciate the “shock” of taking a brand new lens out of the packaging and hear something flopping about. Fuji should put a sticker on the bag the lens is in saying, “They all do that!” LOL Seriously.

Rand

Yes, it's a shock when you first hear it. Then there are the sci-fi noises it makes during operation, which also concern some people. You'd think Fuji would have got the message by now, given the number of returns for this reason. It would be easy enough to print up a card and put it in the box with the lens. My car user manual has several pages of explanation about noises to ignore.

OP tokyowalker Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: GF 4/120 D.O.A. (Not?)
1

Thanks everyone! Already got credit on the return. Guess I’ll go in person to the store in the New Year.

Chris Dodkin
Chris Dodkin Forum Pro • Posts: 13,956
Normal

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

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Your time is limited, so don't waste it arguing about camera features - go out and capture memories - Oh, and size does matter - shoot MF

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Chris Dodkin
Chris Dodkin Forum Pro • Posts: 13,956
Re: GF 4/120 D.O.A.
1

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Your time is limited, so don't waste it arguing about camera features - go out and capture memories - Oh, and size does matter - shoot MF

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OP tokyowalker Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: Normal

Chris Dodkin wrote:

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

Yes, I should have researched it more and not just assumed I would get a well designed product!

JimKasson
MOD JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 36,158
Re: Normal
1

tokyowalker wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

Yes, I should have researched it more and not just assumed I would get a well designed product!

It is a well-designed product.

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OP tokyowalker Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: Normal

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

Yes, I should have researched it more and not just assumed I would get a well designed product!

It is a well-designed product.

Maybe it’s well designed enough for some. But not all. Just like Apple’s mouse with the charging port on the bottom. Hehe.

JimKasson
MOD JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 36,158
Re: Normal

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

Yes, I should have researched it more and not just assumed I would get a well designed product!

It is a well-designed product.

Maybe it’s well designed enough for some. But not all. Just like Apple’s mouse with the charging port on the bottom. Hehe.

Not the same at all. How does the klunking affect the function of the lens?

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OP tokyowalker Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: Normal

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

Yes, I should have researched it more and not just assumed I would get a well designed product!

It is a well-designed product.

Maybe it’s well designed enough for some. But not all. Just like Apple’s mouse with the charging port on the bottom. Hehe.

Not the same at all. How does the klunking affect the function of the lens?

Well, Fujifilm should put it in a camera bag and tote it around on a 4500km journey in Africa. Then we’ll find out?

As an example, in propeller aircraft, things vibrate at the fundamental or harmonic frequencies of the rotational speed of the engine. For a Cessna 172 that would be around 2400 rpm in a warmer climate at cruise speed. So 864,000 vibrations of a loose component over 6 hours flight time. 864,000 times it had banged against its rubber stops. You can call that good engineering, but I disagree. Apparently so do other camera and lens manufacturers as far as I can tell.

JimKasson
MOD JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 36,158
Re: Normal

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

Yes, I should have researched it more and not just assumed I would get a well designed product!

It is a well-designed product.

Maybe it’s well designed enough for some. But not all. Just like Apple’s mouse with the charging port on the bottom. Hehe.

Not the same at all. How does the klunking affect the function of the lens?

Well, Fujifilm should put it in a camera bag and tote it around on a 4500km journey in Africa. Then we’ll find out?

As an example, in propeller aircraft, things vibrate at the fundamental or harmonic frequencies of the rotational speed of the engine. For a Cessna 172 that would be around 2400 rpm in a warmer climate at cruise speed. So 864,000 vibrations of a loose component over 6 hours flight time. 864,000 times it had banged against its rubber stops. You can call that good engineering, but I disagree. Apparently so do other camera and lens manufacturers as far as I can tell.

You are speculating on negative reliability due to the design. That has not been demonstrated. Fujifilm lenses are not the only ones that klunk. I have not seen any worse reliability in lenses with moving elements than in lenses with such elements that are locked when powered down. Sony and Nikon use similar designs in some lenses.

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OP tokyowalker Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: Normal

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

Yes, I should have researched it more and not just assumed I would get a well designed product!

It is a well-designed product.

Maybe it’s well designed enough for some. But not all. Just like Apple’s mouse with the charging port on the bottom. Hehe.

Not the same at all. How does the klunking affect the function of the lens?

Well, Fujifilm should put it in a camera bag and tote it around on a 4500km journey in Africa. Then we’ll find out?

As an example, in propeller aircraft, things vibrate at the fundamental or harmonic frequencies of the rotational speed of the engine. For a Cessna 172 that would be around 2400 rpm in a warmer climate at cruise speed. So 864,000 vibrations of a loose component over 6 hours flight time. 864,000 times it had banged against its rubber stops. You can call that good engineering, but I disagree. Apparently so do other camera and lens manufacturers as far as I can tell.

You are speculating on negative reliability due to the design. That has not been demonstrated. Fujifilm lenses are not the only ones that klunk. I have not seen any worse reliability in lenses with moving elements than in lenses with such elements that are locked when powered down. Sony and Nikon use similar designs in some lenses.

Yes I’m speculating. But aren’t you also speculating on positive reliability? That has not been demonstrated over time either.

I will still get the lens, but this time from a brick and mortar shop where I get the 3 year extended warranty , although at a slight premium.

JimKasson
MOD JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 36,158
Re: Normal

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

Yes, I should have researched it more and not just assumed I would get a well designed product!

It is a well-designed product.

Maybe it’s well designed enough for some. But not all. Just like Apple’s mouse with the charging port on the bottom. Hehe.

Not the same at all. How does the klunking affect the function of the lens?

Well, Fujifilm should put it in a camera bag and tote it around on a 4500km journey in Africa. Then we’ll find out?

As an example, in propeller aircraft, things vibrate at the fundamental or harmonic frequencies of the rotational speed of the engine. For a Cessna 172 that would be around 2400 rpm in a warmer climate at cruise speed. So 864,000 vibrations of a loose component over 6 hours flight time. 864,000 times it had banged against its rubber stops. You can call that good engineering, but I disagree. Apparently so do other camera and lens manufacturers as far as I can tell.

You are speculating on negative reliability due to the design. That has not been demonstrated. Fujifilm lenses are not the only ones that klunk. I have not seen any worse reliability in lenses with moving elements than in lenses with such elements that are locked when powered down. Sony and Nikon use similar designs in some lenses.

Yes I’m speculating. But aren’t you also speculating on positive reliability? That has not been demonstrated over time either.

I have observed no issues, and I've had that lens since FCS. I've taken hundreds of thousands of pictures with it. That doesn't mean that there's not some hidden design error buried in there, but I have no reason to think it's there. I have lots of other lenses that klunk, too. I'm sure they're not as reliable as lenses with no moving parts, but such lenses are less generally useful,

I will still get the lens, but this time from a brick and mortar shop where I get the 3 year extended warranty , although at a slight premium.

Then there are several other Fuji lenses you may want to buy the same way. However, AFAIK, Fuji ships to their dealers by UPS and FedEx.

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Rand 47
Rand 47 Senior Member • Posts: 1,481
Re: Normal
1

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

tokyowalker wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

Should have asked first before wasting your time and money sending it back

This is the #1 question when people receive this lens

Yes, I should have researched it more and not just assumed I would get a well designed product!

It is a well-designed product.

Maybe it’s well designed enough for some. But not all. Just like Apple’s mouse with the charging port on the bottom. Hehe.

Not the same at all. How does the klunking affect the function of the lens?

Well, Fujifilm should put it in a camera bag and tote it around on a 4500km journey in Africa. Then we’ll find out?

:

Yes I’m speculating. But aren’t you also speculating on positive reliability? That has not been demonstrated over time either.

I will still get the lens, but this time from a brick and mortar shop where I get the 3 year extended warranty , although at a slight premium.

Over a year of ownership:

  • Been dragged about in the Alabama Hills of the Eastern Sierras for a week, in the snow
  • Been dragged all over Point Reyes National Seashore, for four days in rain and fog...
  • Been dragged all over Jackson Hole and the Grand Teton area of Wyoming, in cold and snow...
  • Been dragged allover the the Aspen, Carbondale, Telluride areas of CO in both heat, high altitude and COLD

”Clunking all the way . . . “  😎

Been used regularly for “scanning” film / transparencies in my studio. Macro work.

Still pristine in appearance and performance. Good enough for me.

Rand

JimKasson
MOD JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 36,158
Re: Normal
3

Rand 47 wrote:

”Clunking all the way . . . “ 😎

I think there's a song in there. To the tune of Jingle Bells.

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