The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
noggin2k1
noggin2k1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,749
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

traderjay wrote:

noggin2k1 wrote:

I'm going to be "that person", but I can't see anything in these images that warrant the price tag.

I can forgive the first two images as they're low light/high ISO, but with the two outdoors images - nothing looks particularly in focus, and I'd go as far as saying the lens looks borderline faulty when reviewing the out of focus areas.

If everyone can find those subjective/non-quantifiable buzz words such as rendering, character, and 3D pop then brilliant - but I'd personally argue the opposite.

Maybe its caused by the compression? Which areas looks defective?

I'd say it's probably not compression related.

It's the final image where it's the clearest to me - I'd expect the boys face to be in focus (it isn't). His hat that I'd also expect to be in focus looks to have some quite bad fringing & low contrast. Looking at the ladies face behind him, it's not a nice smooth focus roll off that I'd expect.

It looks to me like a lens element is out somewhere and/or a low quality filter is being used.

Only sharing my opinion here - others may think the total opposite to me.

 noggin2k1's gear list:noggin2k1's gear list
Leica Q2 Canon EOS R5 Canon RF 24-70mm F2.8L IS USM Canon RF 85mm F1.2L USM Canon RF 50mm F1.2L USM +4 more
davel33 Senior Member • Posts: 2,198
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words
1

noggin2k1 wrote:

I'm going to be "that person", but I can't see anything in these images that warrant the price tag.

I can forgive the first two images as they're low light/high ISO, but with the two outdoors images - nothing looks particularly in focus, and I'd go as far as saying the lens looks borderline faulty when reviewing the out of focus areas.

If everyone can find those subjective/non-quantifiable buzz words such as rendering, character, and 3D pop then brilliant - but I'd personally argue the opposite.

I was thinking the same GREAT POP but no real IQ.

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Dave

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traderjay
OP traderjay Regular Member • Posts: 463
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words
1

davel33 wrote:

noggin2k1 wrote:

I'm going to be "that person", but I can't see anything in these images that warrant the price tag.

I can forgive the first two images as they're low light/high ISO, but with the two outdoors images - nothing looks particularly in focus, and I'd go as far as saying the lens looks borderline faulty when reviewing the out of focus areas.

If everyone can find those subjective/non-quantifiable buzz words such as rendering, character, and 3D pop then brilliant - but I'd personally argue the opposite.

I was thinking the same GREAT POP but no real IQ.

Thanks all for the feedback! I have the canon 95 mm protect clear filter in front of the lens. Those pictures are out of camera JPEG and I barely had the lens for 24 hours so lots to learn.

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davel33 Senior Member • Posts: 2,198
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words
1

It would be very interesting to see some at 2.8 and 4

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traderjay
OP traderjay Regular Member • Posts: 463
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

When I have time i will do some test shots for side by side. Its very hard to do it with kids and have two comparable images lol

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noggin2k1
noggin2k1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,749
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

traderjay wrote:

davel33 wrote:

noggin2k1 wrote:

I'm going to be "that person", but I can't see anything in these images that warrant the price tag.

I can forgive the first two images as they're low light/high ISO, but with the two outdoors images - nothing looks particularly in focus, and I'd go as far as saying the lens looks borderline faulty when reviewing the out of focus areas.

If everyone can find those subjective/non-quantifiable buzz words such as rendering, character, and 3D pop then brilliant - but I'd personally argue the opposite.

I was thinking the same GREAT POP but no real IQ.

Thanks all for the feedback! I have the canon 95 mm protect clear filter in front of the lens. Those pictures are out of camera JPEG and I barely had the lens for 24 hours so lots to learn.

I'd definitely spend some time testing the lens on some boring subjects (with and without the filter).

I'm not a "photograph brick walls with ever new lens" kind of guy (plenty are, and it's not a bad thing), but I'd definitely recommend making sure you're fundamentally happy with the performance of the lens by testing it out against others you have. Very easy for a new lens to arrive, be mega excited with it, only for the novelty to wear off a month later and you realise it doesn't perform as well as you'd hope.

It's also very easy to listen to us random internet folk, but it's your money (and your happiness with it) at the end of the day. I personally wouldn't be happy with that IQ from the lens, but it comes down to your own conclusions.

 noggin2k1's gear list:noggin2k1's gear list
Leica Q2 Canon EOS R5 Canon RF 24-70mm F2.8L IS USM Canon RF 85mm F1.2L USM Canon RF 50mm F1.2L USM +4 more
traderjay
OP traderjay Regular Member • Posts: 463
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

noggin2k1 wrote:

traderjay wrote:

davel33 wrote:

noggin2k1 wrote:

I'm going to be "that person", but I can't see anything in these images that warrant the price tag.

I can forgive the first two images as they're low light/high ISO, but with the two outdoors images - nothing looks particularly in focus, and I'd go as far as saying the lens looks borderline faulty when reviewing the out of focus areas.

If everyone can find those subjective/non-quantifiable buzz words such as rendering, character, and 3D pop then brilliant - but I'd personally argue the opposite.

I was thinking the same GREAT POP but no real IQ.

Thanks all for the feedback! I have the canon 95 mm protect clear filter in front of the lens. Those pictures are out of camera JPEG and I barely had the lens for 24 hours so lots to learn.

I'd definitely spend some time testing the lens on some boring subjects (with and without the filter).

I'm not a "photograph brick walls with ever new lens" kind of guy (plenty are, and it's not a bad thing), but I'd definitely recommend making sure you're fundamentally happy with the performance of the lens by testing it out against others you have. Very easy for a new lens to arrive, be mega excited with it, only for the novelty to wear off a month later and you realise it doesn't perform as well as you'd hope.

It's also very easy to listen to us random internet folk, but it's your money (and your happiness with it) at the end of the day. I personally wouldn't be happy with that IQ from the lens, but it comes down to your own conclusions.

Fortunately the lens is a Xmas bonus from work...but I still want to make sure it is performing well and not defective lol I

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shawnphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,307
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

bernie r wrote:

shawnphoto wrote:

It's the best lens on any mount. It's all about the color gradations. When I look at what my other lenses do there is something missing. Even the RF 70-200mm. My Sigma glass looks dead and lacking the full color spectrum. If it had Leica written on it they would charge $15,000 for this lens and be justified.

Just my opinion!

Sounds like you're using your Sigma wrong lol, my sigma 105 art is absolutely fine for colours.

Hey, I don't blame you. We all see differently, that is why there are different choices! BTW, I had the Sigma 85mm Art, very nice lens with reliable focusing, but, it needs to be used in good light or the image falls apart. And as for the colors... Looney Tunes would be interested for sure.

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shawnphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,307
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

ProDude wrote:

shawnphoto wrote:

It's the best lens on any mount. It's all about the color gradations. When I look at what my other lenses do there is something missing. Even the RF 70-200mm. My Sigma glass looks dead and lacking the full color spectrum. If it had Leica written on it they would charge $15,000 for this lens and be justified.

Just my opinion!

Believe me Shawn I do respect you. But in this instance I'd have to say I would not be in agreement. It's not a big deal. So what I see when using say my RF24-70 f2.8L IS USM is a very much color rich response to the elements I'm shooting. By NO means devoid in any way of the color spectrum. And according to Canon that would be in line with their design goals. I also recently took on a couple of Sigma lenses after much deliberation. I wrung the heck out of them to determine if they would not only meet my needs but had ANY lack of performance in ANY realm including their portrayal of the color spectrum. BOTH have wowed me so much so as to walk away from the idea of getting the RF equivalents. We're talking about the Sigma 14-24 f2.8 DG HSM Art and the Sigma 105 f1.4 DG HSM Art for the discussions sake.

I would indeed defend the reproduction those particular lenses bring to the table. Perhaps not all Sigma's do, but I strongly feel those 2 DO! Otherwise sending them back would be easy......but they are going nowhere but in my bag. I had a opportunity to work with a RF28-70 f2.0 for a week. Believe me when I say it is a remarkable lens and with it's own unique personality indeed.........I'm not taking anything away from it that's for sure. After sending the rental back I opted to not order one for myself YET! But I'm pretty sure down the road in this next year I'll likely have one in my bag along with my others, to provide it's unique character to my shooting when desired. But once again I'm NOT taking away the character's that the Sigma's I DID choose have. Each one has something it's bringing to the table and I won't take that away from them either.

My opinion is based on editing the files thousands of times. It's a lens that delivers the goods all the time because it is all there. Don't have to wait for good light, or find a different angle. Just take the picture and unfailingly it delivers straight from f/2.0.

It has all the power of a fast prime and then some. Plus its own special magic like you said.

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ProDude Senior Member • Posts: 2,235
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words
1

shawnphoto wrote:

Hey, I don't blame you. We all see differently, that is why there are different choices! BTW, I had the Sigma 85mm Art, very nice lens with reliable focusing, but, it needs to be used in good light or the image falls apart.

Definitely NOT an issue with the 105 f1.4

And as for the colors... Looney Tunes would be interested for sure.

now now be nice. Indeed we are apparently not seeing the same thing. Fortunately others who have seen the output from my 105 I'm now using  with clients aren't with you. But that's perfectly fine Shawn. We all still LOVE what we're doing and that's what really matters.

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ProDude Senior Member • Posts: 2,235
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

shawnphoto wrote:

My opinion is based on editing the files thousands of times. It's a lens that delivers the goods all the time because it is all there. Don't have to wait for good light, or find a different angle. Just take the picture and unfailingly it delivers straight from f/2.0.

It has all the power of a fast prime and then some. Plus its own special magic like you said.

Ok then. So now I have pretty much NO reason to resist getting a RF28-70 f2.0L. Since I just dropped $17k on the system I recently put together, I'll wait till it's all paid off in the next 6 months then dive in on one for my kit. I don't doubt for a second what you've said. I may rent one for another week down the road just to ice the deal. But I doubt that will change my mind. Now to save up those nickels......er uh dollars.....

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Occams Razor Senior Member • Posts: 1,117
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

What did you buy for $17k.

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Randy

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ProDude Senior Member • Posts: 2,235
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

Occams Razor wrote:

What did you buy for $17k.

Well, since you asked. R5 body and grip, 2 memory cards, Dual Card Reader, Extra batteries and chargers. Sigma 14-24 f2.8 DG HSM, Sigma 105 f1.4 DG HSM, RF24-70 f2.8L IS USM, RF24-240, RF70-200 f2.8L IS USM, RF100-500 and RF1.4x Teleconverter, Godox V1 Flash and Accessory Kit. F-64 large backpack. Think Tank 50 Holster bag. Breakthrough X4 82mm Circular Polarizer. DXO Photo Lab Elite.  Hopefully I didn't miss anything

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JustUs7 Senior Member • Posts: 1,932
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

noggin2k1 wrote:

I'm going to be "that person", but I can't see anything in these images that warrant the price tag.

I can forgive the first two images as they're low light/high ISO, but with the two outdoors images - nothing looks particularly in focus, and I'd go as far as saying the lens looks borderline faulty when reviewing the out of focus areas.

If everyone can find those subjective/non-quantifiable buzz words such as rendering, character, and 3D pop then brilliant - but I'd personally argue the opposite.

Yeah, but you should’ve seen the garbage he was producing before!

* I kid!  I kid!  I actually have that thought though, when using newer equipment. My images aren’t great by any measure, and I know this.  But I also know that the improvement over what I was able to do is pretty significant.

I think many times people are considering the relative ease of getting keepers and images they are satisfied with relative to prior experience when evaluating their satisfaction with a purchase.

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PillowFightr
PillowFightr Forum Member • Posts: 72
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

I am debating the RF 28-70mm f2 or the RF 50mm f1.2

what I want to know is, how those 2 lenses compare at 50mm at each f stop starting at f2.0 ??? Which would be better??

If someone has both and used both, please shed some light on the matter 😎

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shawnphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,307
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words
1

PillowFightr wrote:

I am debating the RF 28-70mm f2 or the RF 50mm f1.2

what I want to know is, how those 2 lenses compare at 50mm at each f stop starting at f2.0 ??? Which would be better??

If someone has both and used both, please shed some light on the matter 😎

I like the results I get with the RF 28-70mm

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PhotoFoxx New Member • Posts: 12
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words
1

PillowFightr wrote:

I am debating the RF 28-70mm f2 or the RF 50mm f1.2

what I want to know is, how those 2 lenses compare at 50mm at each f stop starting at f2.0 ??? Which would be better??

If someone has both and used both, please shed some light on the matter 😎

So I only have the RF28-70 f2, but i initially wanted to get the RF50mm f1.2 and read nearly every comment, discussion and test on both before making a decision ^^

From that perspective, I can say that the RF28-70 is ultra sharp and of amazing image quality, rarely been seen before ( even better than many EF primes!), not to forget its unique with f2. But the Rf50mm is even a bit sharper and of course f1.2 will bake a big difference in low light, if you compare it with 50mm f2 from the RF28-70

On the other hand: Both are extremely sharp so you may not even notice the difference to the even sharper RF50 as both are of professional quality.

The benefit of the RF28-70 is clearly its versatility. For me it changed my photography workflow/style and actually made me discover using wider focal lengths (35mm and below) for outdoor portraits which I would not have considered.

When it comes to background blur / shallow depth of field, you should consider that while the RF28-70 may not be able to compete at 50mm f.2 with the RF50 at f1.2, but:

At 70mm f2 the difference in focal length makes up for it and may even give you an even shallower depth of field!

So in this case you may be getting more background blur with the RF28-70 at f2 than with the RF50 at f1.2

You can calculate/check the correct numbers at https://dofsimulator.net/en/ or other calculator.

So with all that said, you will have to weight investing around 1000$ more for the RF28-70 to get a big versatility advantage, but loose as small bit of sharpness/quality.

I went with the RF28-70. I also tested the RF50 in the shop and also noticed that its definitely louder when zooming (noticeable clicking sounds, may be relevant when you are using it for filming).

ProDude Senior Member • Posts: 2,235
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words
1

PhotoFoxx wrote:

PillowFightr wrote:

I am debating the RF 28-70mm f2 or the RF 50mm f1.2

what I want to know is, how those 2 lenses compare at 50mm at each f stop starting at f2.0 ??? Which would be better??

If someone has both and used both, please shed some light on the matter 😎

So I only have the RF28-70 f2, but i initially wanted to get the RF50mm f1.2 and read nearly every comment, discussion and test on both before making a decision ^^

From that perspective, I can say that the RF28-70 is ultra sharp and of amazing image quality, rarely been seen before ( even better than many EF primes!), not to forget its unique with f2. But the Rf50mm is even a bit sharper and of course f1.2 will bake a big difference in low light, if you compare it with 50mm f2 from the RF28-70

On the other hand: Both are extremely sharp so you may not even notice the difference to the even sharper RF50 as both are of professional quality.

The benefit of the RF28-70 is clearly its versatility. For me it changed my photography workflow/style and actually made me discover using wider focal lengths (35mm and below) for outdoor portraits which I would not have considered.

When it comes to background blur / shallow depth of field, you should consider that while the RF28-70 may not be able to compete at 50mm f.2 with the RF50 at f1.2, but:

At 70mm f2 the difference in focal length makes up for it and may even give you an even shallower depth of field!

So in this case you may be getting more background blur with the RF28-70 at f2 than with the RF50 at f1.2

You can calculate/check the correct numbers at https://dofsimulator.net/en/ or other calculator.

So with all that said, you will have to weight investing around 1000$ more for the RF28-70 to get a big versatility advantage, but loose as small bit of sharpness/quality.

I went with the RF28-70. I also tested the RF50 in the shop and also noticed that its definitely louder when zooming (noticeable clicking sounds, may be relevant when you are using it for filming).

Along my 25 years doing this stuff for a living, I invested in many thousands of dollars of Canon gear before. It's typically always been top flight. During the mid 2000's until fairly recently (with the R5/R6) they were NOT class leading. As a result for those other years I was a Nikonian then a Sony user. But I knew Canon did something special with their more recent releases. Indeed that has proven to be true.

I'm finding the RF lenses at large are a distinct departure and move forward and upward from ALL their previous efforts. There are NO RF lenses I'd criticize. Virtually EVERY one of them has characteristics that are admirable and very usable for their given purpose. I really feel Canon's efforts on these lens designs is a tremendous success. Some of them may not be utterly "perfect" but none of them deserve to be slammed that's for sure.

Just the other day I finally got a chance to work with the RF70-200 f2.8L IS USM I received recently and man oh man I surely do see why the reviewers lauded it so much. Surgically sharp and instant to focus. GREAT color rendition right out of camera. I'm getting spoiled. This is indeed a GREAT year for Canon and glad to be a part of it.

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PillowFightr
PillowFightr Forum Member • Posts: 72
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

PhotoFoxx wrote:

PillowFightr wrote:

I am debating the RF 28-70mm f2 or the RF 50mm f1.2

what I want to know is, how those 2 lenses compare at 50mm at each f stop starting at f2.0 ??? Which would be better??

If someone has both and used both, please shed some light on the matter 😎

So I only have the RF28-70 f2, but i initially wanted to get the RF50mm f1.2 and read nearly every comment, discussion and test on both before making a decision ^^

From that perspective, I can say that the RF28-70 is ultra sharp and of amazing image quality, rarely been seen before ( even better than many EF primes!), not to forget its unique with f2. But the Rf50mm is even a bit sharper and of course f1.2 will bake a big difference in low light, if you compare it with 50mm f2 from the RF28-70

On the other hand: Both are extremely sharp so you may not even notice the difference to the even sharper RF50 as both are of professional quality.

The benefit of the RF28-70 is clearly its versatility. For me it changed my photography workflow/style and actually made me discover using wider focal lengths (35mm and below) for outdoor portraits which I would not have considered.

When it comes to background blur / shallow depth of field, you should consider that while the RF28-70 may not be able to compete at 50mm f.2 with the RF50 at f1.2, but:

At 70mm f2 the difference in focal length makes up for it and may even give you an even shallower depth of field!

So in this case you may be getting more background blur with the RF28-70 at f2 than with the RF50 at f1.2

You can calculate/check the correct numbers at https://dofsimulator.net/en/ or other calculator.

So with all that said, you will have to weight investing around 1000$ more for the RF28-70 to get a big versatility advantage, but loose as small bit of sharpness/quality.

I went with the RF28-70. I also tested the RF50 in the shop and also noticed that its definitely louder when zooming (noticeable clicking sounds, may be relevant when you are using it for filming).

Thank you i didn't think about it like that but i guess you are correct in that @70 f2.0 there will be more blur than @50 f1.2 !!!  Plus the versatility of the 28-70.. It might be just the lens i will be getting next!

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 2,360
Re: The RF 28-70 F2 is truly a very magical lens that is hard to describe with words

traderjay wrote:

Indeed especially compared to the "kit" lens EF 24-70 F4 IS L that came from the 5D mark IV that I adapted to the R5... Even when compared to the RF 70-200, this lens is unmatched.

The lens is magical in my eyes from the way it mesmurizes the owners of the lens. I found it big and offensive for my use: neither fish nor foul. I mean no offense but it seemed too expensive for me for a kind of compromised prime in a heavy zoom lens from the limited low light and isolation that it delivers at f2. Then again it differences of opinion on issues like character that is the reason they run horse races and do not just accept the results derived from the specification. Maybe I should actually try one in my one hands with a rental once the virus breaks. Maybe I will be mesmurized too but it that a good thing? Maybe the sanity of sticking with my current otherwise excellent old school RF 24-70mmf2.8L IS will empower me to control my sometimes weakened will.

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