The real deal

Sigmas do go hunting. But also panasonic lenses can have troubles they are not all equal

PL25 has outstanding image quality but the focus motor is so noisy it can’t be used in video

I don’t see any focus issues tho for photos

With regards to the 40-150 the key benefit of using a panasonic lens with power ois is that the frame is always steady not just at half press tho if I recall not all lenses work like that

Focus was not your friend here

interesting! I don't get that special effect you are lucky

Harold66 wrote:

The statistics here on dpreview do not prove anything. I do not know which is the better seller and neither do you. Furthermore it is irrelevant to the point I was makingThe

The statistics here at Dpreview actually prove two things beyond a shadow of a doubt:

• 97 Dpreview members say they own the Panasonic lens
• 1,110 Dpreview members say they own the Olympus lens

Both statistics came from the same group using the same methodology. For whatever reason those members could possibly have, they say they purchased the more expensive lens eleven times more often than the cheaper lens.

It is really hard to argue with that conclusion.

1. Marty4650 wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

The statistics here on dpreview do not prove anything. I do not know which is the better seller and neither do you. Furthermore it is irrelevant to the point I was makingThe

The statistics here at Dpreview actually prove two things beyond a shadow of a doubt:

• 97 Dpreview members say they own the Panasonic lens
• 1,110 Dpreview members say they own the Olympus lens

Both statistics came from the same group using the same methodology. For whatever reason those members could possibly have, they say they purchased the more expensive lens eleven times more often than the cheaper lens.

It is really hard to argue with that conclusion.

That's correct however the cheaper lens (olympus 40-150) is the one being owned more as I wrote originally than the more expensive lens (panasonic 50-200) but this is also due to the fact the Olympus is longer on the market so two factors in play here

1. Gnine wrote:

Interceptor121 wrote:

interesting! I don't get that special effect you are lucky

Confirmation bias is a wonderful thing

I think I don't get those situations because

1. I don't use the lens for landscapes or similar

2. I would have taken that shot at f/5.6 if not f/8 the background helps the photo

The image has longitudinal chromatic aberrations as they are in the centre you can get that with any lens but most are capped at f/2.8 so you don't see it

The summilux are low light lenses sure you can use them for landscape but that's not what they are for

Marty4650 wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

The statistics here on dpreview do not prove anything. I do not know which is the better seller and neither do you. Furthermore it is irrelevant to the point I was makingThe

The statistics here at Dpreview actually prove two things beyond a shadow of a doubt:

• 97 Dpreview members say they own the Panasonic lens
• 1,110 Dpreview members say they own the Olympus lens

Both statistics came from the same group using the same methodology. For whatever reason those members could possibly have, they say they purchased the more expensive lens eleven times more often than the cheaper lens.

It is really hard to argue with that conclusion.

Is it really ? This is hardly  a "representative " quote of the sales worldwide but anyhow it has nothing to do with my point

My point was not which lens sells better but  what factors could lead an user to choose today between those two lenses

are YOU  contesting the two points I made regarding where the PL would have the advantage ? Just curious

Harold

No I am just saying how I take my images so I don’t see those effects

With regards to summilux that comes from leica themselves those lenses were designed to be lighter than the noctilux (Nocticron) and more compact

Both noctilux f1.2 and summilux f1.4 are low light lenses

Summicron starts at f/2 and elmarit at f2.8 elmar at f4 summaron at f5.6

The elmarit and elmar can be telephoto lenses

Obviously when transposed into MFT the depth of field increases so the effect is diminishing in terms of blur but low light ability stays

sorry if my previous message sounded condescending was not meant to and each person can use their equipment as they wish

Harold66 wrote:

Marty4650 wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

The statistics here on dpreview do not prove anything. I do not know which is the better seller and neither do you. Furthermore it is irrelevant to the point I was makingThe

The statistics here at Dpreview actually prove two things beyond a shadow of a doubt:

• 97 Dpreview members say they own the Panasonic lens
• 1,110 Dpreview members say they own the Olympus lens

Both statistics came from the same group using the same methodology. For whatever reason those members could possibly have, they say they purchased the more expensive lens eleven times more often than the cheaper lens.

It is really hard to argue with that conclusion.

Is it really ? This is hardly a "representative " quote of the sales worldwide but anyhow it has nothing to do with my point

I never said it represents worldwide sales. I just made the point that in this particular universe, the same group of users has stated a strong preference for one product over the other.

My point was not which lens sells better but what factors could lead an user to choose today between those two lenses

are YOU contesting the two points I made regarding where the PL would have the advantage ? Just curious

There are MANY reasons one lens might be more popular than another. And you mentioned two of them (time in the market and price). I am not in any way denying that point, I am just saying that your statement that the "statistics here on dpreview do not prove anything" is provably false.

At the very least they prove that more DPR members SAY they purchased one of these lenses. And by a really large margin.

Now you could say "this proves nothing" but only if you are willing to believe that "1,200 high end users who pay $1,500 for lenses don't mean anything." You say this has no bearing on the overall market. And you might be right.

But tell me.... exactly WHO is buying $1500 lenses out there in the "real world?"

These aren't lenses designed for casual users, beginners, or anyone on a budget.  I think it would be difficult to assemble a better group than "1200 DPR users, who are primarily high end enthusiasts, hobbyists and professionals."

And 1110 of them say they bought the Olympus lens, while only 97 say they bought the Panasonic lens. If this is meaningless to you, then so be it. But logic and common sense say otherwise.

Harold

Totally off-topic, and taken with my Android, but what an unexpected rush to be at my horse barn and have these guys come through for Amgen Tour of California!   Wish I had my camera with me!

Marty4650 wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

Marty4650 wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

The statistics here on dpreview do not prove anything. I do not know which is the better seller and neither do you. Furthermore it is irrelevant to the point I was makingThe

The statistics here at Dpreview actually prove two things beyond a shadow of a doubt:

• 97 Dpreview members say they own the Panasonic lens
• 1,110 Dpreview members say they own the Olympus lens

Both statistics came from the same group using the same methodology. For whatever reason those members could possibly have, they say they purchased the more expensive lens eleven times more often than the cheaper lens.

It is really hard to argue with that conclusion.

Is it really ? This is hardly a "representative " quote of the sales worldwide but anyhow it has nothing to do with my point

I never said it represents worldwide sales.

Never said you did . As you pointed out , we do not how the sales are spread since both lenses are available

I just made the point that in this particular universe, the same group of users has stated a strong preference for one product over the other.

Again because of the above , we don t even know if this is the case and anyhow it does not change my point

It is NOT like I said every users should favour  the Panasonic zoom

My point was not which lens sells better but what factors could lead an user to choose today between those two lenses

are YOU contesting the two points I made regarding where the PL would have the advantage ? Just curious

There are MANY reasons one lens might be more popular than another. And you mentioned two of them (time in the market and price).

waouh you do not even got my post correct . There are not the two points I mentioned

I am not in any way denying that point,

this was

I am just saying that your statement that the "statistics here on dpreview do not prove anything" is provably false.

again putting words in my mouth 

just saying nobody knows about numbers and again this is not my point

At the very least they prove that more DPR members SAY they purchased one of these lenses. And by a really large margin.

did you ever look at those statistics  for other stuff. I remember often when there is a new camera there is always a fraction which said " they HAD it " while the camera is Not even available . so I would  take those stats with a grain of salt  REGARDLESS of the product

Now you could say "this proves nothing" but only if you are willing to believe that "1,200 high end users who pay $1,500 for lenses don't mean anything." You say this has no bearing on the overall market. And you might be right.

AGAIN , you need to read my posts in this thread before putting things out of context

But tell me.... exactly WHO is buying $1500 lenses out there in the "real world?"

These aren't lenses designed for casual users, beginners, or anyone on a budget. I think it would be difficult to assemble a better group than "1200 DPR users, who are primarily high end enthusiasts, hobbyists and professionals."

And 1110 of them say they bought the Olympus lens, while only 97 say they bought the Panasonic lens. If this is meaningless to you, then so be it

it is not . I am sure this is a popular zoom considering its price

Hopefully  other people who read this thread would remember that my post was never about which of these two lenses  sell better .

I would certainly hope that a m4/3 user who wanted to buy one of those zooms will not base his or her choice on which one sells better . That would be downright silly imo 

You wrote:

"The statistics here on dpreview do not prove anything. I do not know which is the better seller and neither do you. Furthermore it is irrelevant to the point I was making."

And that is blatantly wrong. They do prove SOMETHING. You many not agree with this, but it is hard to say that they don't definitively prove that more DPR users say they prefer one lens over the other. This is so obvious, that it seems foolish to have to point it out.

Then you go on to accuse both me and Interceptor of "putting words in your mouth" and "twisting your words." Which words did we twist? Did you not clearly state that the statistics don't prove anything? Please note, it was you who put words in my mouth by construing my statement that "these stats do mean something" to mean I was saying something about global sales.

And then you go on to say that your real point was that  "people can choose one lens over the other for a variety of reasons" which is obviously true. Absolutely no one is disputing that claim. But  saying that just doesn't support the notion that these statistics don't prove anything.

And I say that is contrary to logic and common sense.

Just leave it. The same guy said that it was false that the nocticron needed 6.5 meters distance to fit 2 meters on the long side in a portrait after I made that comment

It's Xmas let's move on