Well What do you think??

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Roger Senior Member • Posts: 2,636
Well What do you think??
1

Greetings and Happy Holidays to All

Well I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but here's it goes. Do you think we'll ever going to see the FF Foveon? Or do you believe that Sigma's new direction if the FP style? I know it's a tough market out there but I, myself don't know which way to jump or if I want to jump. I have one  SD14, and SD15 left that work. I have one SD1 that has bad AF a SDQ that seems ok and a SDQ-H with a sticky front wheel, sometime it works and some time it doesn't not to mention it likes to over heat. So as you know I started looking around but nothing, not even the FP comes close to the Foveon, and now only lenses for the L mount and the E mount/Sony. It seems Sony and Sigma are together???

I don't know, but it also seems like the group here is getting smaller. Less people.

Thank you for letting me vent, I hope something good pops up.

I given up all my other cameras, and just have my Sigma's now.

Stay safe, but enjoy

Roger J.

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Jeffry7 Regular Member • Posts: 334
Re: Well What do you think??
2

I think that Sigma is going to continue being a niche camera and lens manufacturer.

The fp is an example of this. If you really wanted the best video camera, you would probably get a Panasonic S1h. But fp is not without its charm, chiefly its size. That is the point. It has different design choices then the mainstream and will appeal to some when the mainstream doesn't.

I also think though that it is hard for a fovean sensor camera to be your only camera. There are just too many things other cameras can do well that foveans can't. Maybe you need IBIS, or better noise handling, or a better lens selection. (I have had a sudden craving for a long prime.)

If you do astrophotography at all, then a Canon or a Nikon is a natural choice because the astrophotography software can control them. Not so with Sigma.

I think there will be a FFF. I look forward to it. But it won't be my only camera. (Although the posibility of sharing lenses makes the Panasonic l mounts look interesting.)

BarrytheB Veteran Member • Posts: 3,586
Re: Well What do you think??
1

I’ve gotten somewhat jaded- still have SD9, 14, 15, and two DPQ’s that don’t work. What killed it for me was move to EVF and new software just will not recognize my drives. After numerous emails with support I’ve given up. Been shooting a D800e last few years. Still love the Sigmas but it’s quite discouraging.

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D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 27,895
Re: Well What do you think??
1

BarrytheB wrote:

I’ve gotten somewhat jaded- still have SD9, 14, 15, and two DPQ’s that don’t work. What killed it for me was move to EVF and new software just will not recognize my drives. After numerous emails with support I’ve given up. Been shooting a D800e last few years. Still love the Sigmas but it’s quite discouraging.

The dpQ cameras will save DNG files, which can be converted to TIF in several programs.

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Ceistinne Senior Member • Posts: 2,487
Re: Well What do you think??
2

Roger wrote:

Greetings and Happy Holidays to All

Well I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but here's it goes. Do you think we'll ever going to see the FF Foveon? Or do you believe that Sigma's new direction if the FP style? I know it's a tough market out there but I, myself don't know which way to jump or if I want to jump. I have one SD14, and SD15 left that work. I have one SD1 that has bad AF a SDQ that seems ok and a SDQ-H with a sticky front wheel, sometime it works and some time it doesn't not to mention it likes to over heat. So as you know I started looking around but nothing, not even the FP comes close to the Foveon, and now only lenses for the L mount and the E mount/Sony. It seems Sony and Sigma are together???

I don't know, but it also seems like the group here is getting smaller. Less people.

Thank you for letting me vent, I hope something good pops up.

I given up all my other cameras, and just have my Sigma's now.

Stay safe, but enjoy

Roger J.

Roger J,

I gave the following reply to a post by larryj earlier. I think it applies here also.

"Holding out also for the FFF but feeling kind of like missing out when I see what the fp is capable of in situations where it would be difficult to work with any of my Foveon sensor cameras. Tempted to go for the fp but expensive compared to the likes of a good Sony A7 ii which I use occasionally and can use my SA lenses on it also. If the fp had an EVF I would definitely consider it and ditch the Sony.

Anyway with lockdowns ongoing and not a lot of photography I will wait and see if the FFF gets off the ground and see what it will be like. It would have to be very much improved from the noise point of view in lower light and at higher ISOs before I would consider it. Otherwise it would be no better than my SD1M & dp & sd Qs".

S

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Tom Schum
Tom Schum Forum Pro • Posts: 10,650
Re: Well What do you think??

I'm becoming less and less optimistic about Sigma developing any new Foveons.

Fortunately the Panasonic DC-S5 exists.  It is the only full frame camera out there that does not have phase focus pixels.  I can get the best image quality from this kind of sensor (Foveon is much better of course).

And, the DC-S5 uses the L-mount lenses.

I haven't bought anything yet, but if a few more months go by without definite news about Foveon full frame, I might just go ahead with the Panasonic.

I love these new Sigma L-mount lenses, and there are now four to choose from.

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mike earussi Veteran Member • Posts: 8,930
Re: Well What do you think??

With the ILC market decreasing and lens sales dropping, I think it really depends on the development and production costs. I think sigma would like to develop a FFF but not at the expense of seriously injuring the company financially.

My other sorrow is Sigma's exclusive focus on mirrorless lenses (did the entire dslr market just disappear overnight?) which means I won't be able to put their latest lenses on my SD1M.

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digi2ap Contributing Member • Posts: 823
Re: Well What do you think??
1

I have a hunch that the FFF will also be modular like the FP.  If developing it that way where other interchangeable items can work with the FFF and the FP (and other future models) then I think it is possible that it will still materialise.

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xpatUSA
xpatUSA Forum Pro • Posts: 18,580
Re: Well What do you think??

Jeffry7 wrote:

I also think though that it is hard for a [Foveon] sensor camera to be your only camera. There are just too many things other cameras can do well that [Foveons] can't. Maybe you need IBIS, or better noise handling, or a better lens selection.

Spot on! My two main cameras are now SD9 and G9 ... great minds think alike.

(I have had a sudden craving for a long prime.)

By coincidence, I've just ordered an M42 Tele-Takumar 400mm f/5.6 - equivalent to 800mm on the G9 ...

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DMillier Forum Pro • Posts: 21,863
Re: Well What do you think??

xpatUSA wrote:

Jeffry7 wrote:

I also think though that it is hard for a [Foveon] sensor camera to be your only camera. There are just too many things other cameras can do well that [Foveons] can't. Maybe you need IBIS, or better noise handling, or a better lens selection.

Spot on! My two main cameras are now SD9 and G9 ... great minds think alike.

(I have had a sudden craving for a long prime.)

By coincidence, I've just ordered an M42 Tele-Takumar 400mm f/5.6 - equivalent to 800mm on the G9 ...

Yesterday I had a play with connecting up my Skymax 127 Mak to my GX7.  3000mm f/12

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DMillier Forum Pro • Posts: 21,863
Re: Well What do you think??

Tom Schum wrote:

I'm becoming less and less optimistic about Sigma developing any new Foveons.

Fortunately the Panasonic DC-S5 exists. It is the only full frame camera out there that does not have phase focus pixels. I can get the best image quality from this kind of sensor (Foveon is much better of course).

And, the DC-S5 uses the L-mount lenses.

I haven't bought anything yet, but if a few more months go by without definite news about Foveon full frame, I might just go ahead with the Panasonic.

I love these new Sigma L-mount lenses, and there are now four to choose from.

Don't forget the grown up Panny models, they are DFD focus as well.

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xpatUSA
xpatUSA Forum Pro • Posts: 18,580
Re: Well What do you think??

DMillier wrote:

xpatUSA wrote:

Jeffry7 wrote:

I also think though that it is hard for a [Foveon] sensor camera to be your only camera. There are just too many things other cameras can do well that [Foveons] can't. Maybe you need IBIS, or better noise handling, or a better lens selection.

Spot on! My two main cameras are now SD9 and G9 ... great minds think alike.

(I have had a sudden craving for a long prime.)

By coincidence, I've just ordered an M42 Tele-Takumar 400mm f/5.6 - equivalent to 800mm on the G9 ...

Yesterday I had a play with connecting up my Skymax 127 Mak to my GX7. 3000mm f/12

Had to look it up ...

... I am humbled.

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Jeffry7 Regular Member • Posts: 334
Re: Well What do you think??

Tom Schum wrote:

I'm becoming less and less optimistic about Sigma developing any new Foveons.

Fortunately the Panasonic DC-S5 exists. It is the only full frame camera out there that does not have phase focus pixels. I can get the best image quality from this kind of sensor (Foveon is much better of course).

Which L Mount uses phase detect?

Jozef M Senior Member • Posts: 1,822
Re: Well What do you think??

Tom Schum wrote:

I'm becoming less and less optimistic about Sigma developing any new Foveons.

Fortunately the Panasonic DC-S5 exists. It is the only full frame camera out there that does not have phase focus pixels. I can get the best image quality from this kind of sensor (Foveon is much better of course).

And, the DC-S5 uses the L-mount lenses.

I haven't bought anything yet, but if a few more months go by without definite news about Foveon full frame, I might just go ahead with the Panasonic.

I love these new Sigma L-mount lenses, and there are now four to choose from.

The Lumix cameras are very good, the more I use my Lumix G9, the more I like the cam. I'm not convinced that FF is better (and I have a decent lens set up).

But you say 'a few months', well there is still a horrible pandemic going on, you have to wait at least a year about news of a new Foveon sensor, my personal opinion is 2022 or not at all. But nobody knows, all speculation.

If I were you I get that DC-S5 now, if you're looking for a new system. I really like Panasonic - Lumix.

Jozef.

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Tom Schum
Tom Schum Forum Pro • Posts: 10,650
Re: Well What do you think??

Jeffry7 wrote:

Tom Schum wrote:

I'm becoming less and less optimistic about Sigma developing any new Foveons.

Fortunately the Panasonic DC-S5 exists. It is the only full frame camera out there that does not have phase focus pixels. I can get the best image quality from this kind of sensor (Foveon is much better of course).

Which L Mount uses phase detect?

Since Leica has re-badged a Panasonic, my guess is no L Mount uses phase detect (so far).

All the other full frame cameras out there do use phase detect though, and this can cause a slight occasional drop in image quality and sometimes gridding.

See DPR video below at 9:20 - 9:30 for a very quick mention of this:

https://www.dpreview.com/videos/0846852970/dpreview-tv-best-enthusiast-full-frame-mirrorless-camera

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xpatUSA
xpatUSA Forum Pro • Posts: 18,580
Re: Well What do you think??
1

Jozef M wrote:

Tom Schum wrote:

I'm becoming less and less optimistic about Sigma developing any new Foveons.

Fortunately the Panasonic DC-S5 exists. It is the only full frame camera out there that does not have phase focus pixels. I can get the best image quality from this kind of sensor (Foveon is much better of course).

And, the DC-S5 uses the L-mount lenses.

I haven't bought anything yet, but if a few more months go by without definite news about Foveon full frame, I might just go ahead with the Panasonic.

I love these new Sigma L-mount lenses, and there are now four to choose from.

The Lumix cameras are very good, the more I use my Lumix G9, the more I like the cam. I'm not convinced that FF is better (and I have a decent lens set up).

Nor am I.

G9 with G1 14-45mm kit lens:

Sawtooth setter, business end about 4cm wide

I've since bought their awesome 12-35mm 'X' Vario with Power-IS which gives me dual-IS with the IBIS.

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richard stone Veteran Member • Posts: 3,446
Re: Well What do you think??
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Personally, I am quite pleased with my sdQ, and to some lesser extent I remain pleased with my SD10. Is the sdQ a perfect camera? No, but it comes pretty close with an OS lens. That should take care of about 90% of all shots.

I remain intrigued with the fp. I am hopeful about the FFF, in the sense that that I want Sigma to get it right.

As David Millier points out from time to time, you do not need the very latest equipment to make very good and excellent images. You just need to understand what you want to accomplish and have a plan for doing it.

The Sigma Foveon cameras are "niche" in the sense that they provide very high image quality, with the attributes of high contrast and great color. I fail to see how that can get old. But if you feel the need to be part of the Bayer herd there are plenty of good ways to scratch that itch. Your new or newish Bayer camera will not provide all the attributes of Foveon, but it will be more versatile. So you can make more ordinary images in more situations. No one will criticize your decision. You will be welcomed to the herd.

What I find myself amused with are the images from the fp, which look slightly different from the usual Bayer. Really quite charming.

And so, what's the hurry? Sigma will do what it does and if you keep using the Sigma cameras you have, without butchering them for some specialized use, you will have excellent cameras that will work as long as you do. What's the hurry?

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SigmaChrome Forum Pro • Posts: 13,181
Re: Well What do you think??
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digi2ap wrote:

I have a hunch that the FFF will also be modular like the FP. If developing it that way where other interchangeable items can work with the FFF and the FP (and other future models) then I think it is possible that it will still materialise.

I have the distinct impression the it won't be anything like the Sigma fp... Why? Because Kazuto Yamaki said so. He was asked in an interview some time ago and said it wouldn't be anything like the fp design. Personally, I'm very happy about that.

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