Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
rhlpetrus Forum Pro • Posts: 26,218
Check Iso values

All you Z images have been shot at absurdly high ISO value, how can you compare them to low Iso shots?

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Varuas Contributing Member • Posts: 728
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.
1

whatamIdoingwrong wrote:

...
The main issue is there is almost no crispness to the images. Below are some images with the D300 vs. Z6.

Z6

That shot does not need 1/8000s shutter speed!

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NCB Senior Member • Posts: 1,723
Compare like with like...
3

You can't compare outside shots with the 300S to indoor shots with another camera. If you want a genuine comparison between the two, take near enough identical shots using the same settings and the same lens.

Nigel

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mek42 Regular Member • Posts: 174
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

What reading / learning do you suggest instead?

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mrjpack Contributing Member • Posts: 882
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

whatamIdoingwrong wrote:

Whois wrote:

Considering the incredibly high ISO settings that you are using these photos are not bad at all.

I appreciate the comment. Should I just turn the auto ISO off completely or just set a max? I thought that was the issue, but I don't understand why that high of ISO is defaulted as auto? Is that pretty much the issue period you think?

Thank you again for the reply.

I don’t often use auto iso, when I do I usually cap at 6400. I owned a D300 the Z6 is a much better camera for most uses. But there is a steep learning curve to get used to it...

jim

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mek42 Regular Member • Posts: 174
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

"... a signal that action should be taken."

Or, perhaps, accept that we have a sub-optimally exposed shot and adjust our expectations.

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BasilG Veteran Member • Posts: 8,441
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.
5

whatamIdoingwrong wrote:

The higher shutter speed was my doing because my son moves so much...

1/8000 sec is a bit much. I use 1/1000-1/2000 for shooting airplanes that come at me with almost the speed of sound... hopefully your son doesn't move quite as rapidly.

FingerPainter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,850
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.
3

mek42 wrote:

What reading / learning do you suggest instead?

Stay away from most internet sources, especially the "popular" ones. Printed sources have a better higher average reliability, because, perhaps, of the higher barriers to entry. However, popular books by photographers are less likely to be technically correct than academic texts.

The manual of photography is mostly good.

Books published by Kodak are generally reliable.

The technical articles here on DPR are mostly pretty good.

Pay attention also to posts here by Dr.Emil Martinec, Dr. Eric Fossum, Jim Kasson, Iliah Borg, bobn2, ..  I am forgetting the names of several other qualified and reliable posters.

People who disagree with any of the above are usually best ignored.

Also, less technically qualified, but usually reliable posters include, Bill Ferris, Mark Scott Alben, Gerry Winterbourne, and a host of other names whom I am forgetting but will recognize when I see them.

1llusive
1llusive Veteran Member • Posts: 3,432
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.
1

FingerPainter wrote:

mek42 wrote:

What reading / learning do you suggest instead?

Stay away from most internet sources, especially the "popular" ones. Printed sources have a better higher average reliability, because, perhaps, of the higher barriers to entry. However, popular books by photographers are less likely to be technically correct than academic texts.

The manual of photography is mostly good.

Books published by Kodak are generally reliable.

The technical articles here on DPR are mostly pretty good.

Pay attention also to posts here by Dr.Emil Martinec, Dr. Eric Fossum, Jim Kasson, Iliah Borg, bobn2, .. I am forgetting the names of several other qualified and reliable posters.

People who disagree with any of the above are usually best ignored.

Also, less technically qualified, but usually reliable posters include, Bill Ferris, Mark Scott Alben, Gerry Winterbourne, and a host of other names whom I am forgetting but will recognize when I see them.

Marianne Oelund.

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BillW1204 Regular Member • Posts: 217
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.
2

mek42 wrote:

What reading / learning do you suggest instead?

Consider Thom Hogan’s e-book on the Z6 & Z7 (or whichever Z body you have). Quite useful in my experience. Explains settings and offers suggestions for starting to learn them. Modest cost for lots of helpful information. Recently updated to reflect firmware version 3.

Steve Perry also has useful books on exposure and focus systems, but these may be more useful if you know your camera’s basics. He’s a wildlife and nature photographer, so his examples tend to come from there.

For basic information on aperture, shutterspeed, ISO, focal length, depth of field, etc., see John Shaw’s Guide to Digital Nature Photography. Very good with helpful basic information if you need it. Focuses on examples from nature photography, so there may be better choices if you focus on other stuff.

FingerPainter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,850
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

1llusive wrote:

FingerPainter wrote:

mek42 wrote:

What reading / learning do you suggest instead?

Stay away from most internet sources, especially the "popular" ones. Printed sources have a better higher average reliability, because, perhaps, of the higher barriers to entry. However, popular books by photographers are less likely to be technically correct than academic texts.

The manual of photography is mostly good.

Books published by Kodak are generally reliable.

The technical articles here on DPR are mostly pretty good.

Pay attention also to posts here by Dr.Emil Martinec, Dr. Eric Fossum, Jim Kasson, Iliah Borg, bobn2, .. I am forgetting the names of several other qualified and reliable posters.

People who disagree with any of the above are usually best ignored.

Also, less technically qualified, but usually reliable posters include, Bill Ferris, Mark Scott Alben, Gerry Winterbourne, and a host of other names whom I am forgetting but will recognize when I see them.

Marianne Oelund.

Yeah, definitely worth paying attention to.

There are more.

jthomas39 Contributing Member • Posts: 504
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.
2

When my Z6 was new, I tried the Auto setting on the dial. It often picked non-optimal settings, and I didn't know why. I quit trying it pretty soon. The Z cameras have so much control and ability, so I think it's good to learn Aperture and/or Shutter Priority as the usual modes (and then Manual mode for difficult situations). It's a learning curve, but I shot a bunch of test images and got to the point where I know right away what I want to set.

This older post I made about object tracking along with face/eye detection might help you. And I have a U1 dial setting for handing the camera to people not familiar with it, with simple auto settings.

Object and Face detect settings

I normally shoot static scenes, not moving kids. So I usually use AF-S and Aperture mode. Moving the mode dial two clicks to U3 puts me in tracking mode, and doesn't affect my usual settings when I switch back to Aperture later. I like it.

The object tracking works great! Get the white box on the subject, hold the autofocus button (usually a half press of the shutter) and it follows the subject all over the image area. Easy and effective.

jthomas39 Contributing Member • Posts: 504
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

whatamIdoingwrong wrote:

ajdb wrote:

whatamIdoingwrong wrote:

Thank you for the reply. I took some more tonight and did have to run up the ISO to compensate for the low light. I guess I unfortunately need to invest in at least one new lens to help because neither that I have is really a portrait lens with lower than f3.5. Both lens are F mount DX. One is a 55-300mm and other is 18-55mm. I know I can simply compensate with flash or better light but those soft light photos of sweet moments are part of what I want to capture.

Wait what?? why are you running DX lenses on your Z6? You are cutting off a huge part of the sensor? If you are on a budget, I would try and pick up a used 24-70 F4 S or maybe even better a 24-200mm (doubt there will be many used though).

If you want low light on a budget you can pick up a used F mount 50mm 1.8G with an FTZ.

You'll see another leap in performance once you use the correct lenses (not DX!) on your Z6

You hit the nail on the head with budget. The FTZ adapter was only $50 with the body only purchase. I had researched and I understood the trade offs with the expectation that I could purchase a Z mount lens maybe after Christmas. I added a 50mm Z mount to the wish list and I'll probably make the leap early next year.

I had the 24-70 F4 originally. So I did a few sessions at 35mm settings and at 50mm. I liked the 50 mm best, but many people prefer 35mm, especially shooting people indoors. I liked the feeling of depth I got in the 50mm images. And the 1.8 S 50mm lens is super sharp.

For 50mm inspiration, check out this older thread. (put it in Flat view instead of Threaded view, then you can just scroll down.) A big range of subjects and styles. The F1.8 shallow depth of field is on display in a lot of these.

Thread:   50mm 1.8S owners

OP whatamIdoingwrong New Member • Posts: 18
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

jthomas39 wrote:

whatamIdoingwrong wrote:

ajdb wrote:

whatamIdoingwrong wrote:

Thank you for the reply. I took some more tonight and did have to run up the ISO to compensate for the low light. I guess I unfortunately need to invest in at least one new lens to help because neither that I have is really a portrait lens with lower than f3.5. Both lens are F mount DX. One is a 55-300mm and other is 18-55mm. I know I can simply compensate with flash or better light but those soft light photos of sweet moments are part of what I want to capture.

Wait what?? why are you running DX lenses on your Z6? You are cutting off a huge part of the sensor? If you are on a budget, I would try and pick up a used 24-70 F4 S or maybe even better a 24-200mm (doubt there will be many used though).

If you want low light on a budget you can pick up a used F mount 50mm 1.8G with an FTZ.

You'll see another leap in performance once you use the correct lenses (not DX!) on your Z6

You hit the nail on the head with budget. The FTZ adapter was only $50 with the body only purchase. I had researched and I understood the trade offs with the expectation that I could purchase a Z mount lens maybe after Christmas. I added a 50mm Z mount to the wish list and I'll probably make the leap early next year.

I had the 24-70 F4 originally. So I did a few sessions at 35mm settings and at 50mm. I liked the 50 mm best, but many people prefer 35mm, especially shooting people indoors. I liked the feeling of depth I got in the 50mm images. And the 1.8 S 50mm lens is super sharp.

For 50mm inspiration, check out this older thread. (put it in Flat view instead of Threaded view, then you can just scroll down.) A big range of subjects and styles. The F1.8 shallow depth of field is on display in a lot of these.

Threadad:50mm 1.8S owners

Awesome thanks for pointing me in that direction. Makes me want it even more honestly.

OP whatamIdoingwrong New Member • Posts: 18
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.
1

jthomas39 wrote:

When my Z6 was new, I tried the Auto setting on the dial. It often picked non-optimal settings, and I didn't know why. I quit trying it pretty soon. The Z cameras have so much control and ability, so I think it's good to learn Aperture and/or Shutter Priority as the usual modes (and then Manual mode for difficult situations). It's a learning curve, but I shot a bunch of test images and got to the point where I know right away what I want to set.

This older post I made about object tracking along with face/eye detection might help you. And I have a U1 dial setting for handing the camera to people not familiar with it, with simple auto settings.

Object and Face detect settings

I normally shoot static scenes, not moving kids. So I usually use AF-S and Aperture mode. Moving the mode dial two clicks to U3 puts me in tracking mode, and doesn't affect my usual settings when I switch back to Aperture later. I like it.

The object tracking works great! Get the white box on the subject, hold the autofocus button (usually a half press of the shutter) and it follows the subject all over the image area. Easy and effective.

After all the replies, this was pretty much my conclusion about seeing the U1 and U2 up. I'm going to spend some time this weekend setting these things up based on a combo of videos/suggestions I have been given.

Thank you for the pointers.

Raymond L
Raymond L Regular Member • Posts: 265
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.
2

whatamIdoingwrong wrote:

jthomas39 wrote:

When my Z6 was new, I tried the Auto setting on the dial. It often picked non-optimal settings, and I didn't know why. I quit trying it pretty soon. The Z cameras have so much control and ability, so I think it's good to learn Aperture and/or Shutter Priority as the usual modes (and then Manual mode for difficult situations). It's a learning curve, but I shot a bunch of test images and got to the point where I know right away what I want to set.

This older post I made about object tracking along with face/eye detection might help you. And I have a U1 dial setting for handing the camera to people not familiar with it, with simple auto settings.

Object and Face detect settings

I normally shoot static scenes, not moving kids. So I usually use AF-S and Aperture mode. Moving the mode dial two clicks to U3 puts me in tracking mode, and doesn't affect my usual settings when I switch back to Aperture later. I like it.

The object tracking works great! Get the white box on the subject, hold the autofocus button (usually a half press of the shutter) and it follows the subject all over the image area. Easy and effective.

After all the replies, this was pretty much my conclusion about seeing the U1 and U2 up. I'm going to spend some time this weekend setting these things up based on a combo of videos/suggestions I have been given.

Thank you for the pointers.

Look forward to seeing you again, when you register your account as "iamdoingitrightnow".

All the best.

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jaiyenyen Regular Member • Posts: 213
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

Is your Z6 on the up to date firmware?

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OP whatamIdoingwrong New Member • Posts: 18
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

jaiyenyen wrote:

Is your Z6 on the up to date firmware?

It is not. I have to purchase a card reader. I overlooked the fact my 6 slot reader wouldn't have the slot for the new cards when I bought the camera.

J_o_e_l
J_o_e_l Regular Member • Posts: 186
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.

Sorry, I just noticed your questions...

I believe the ISO reduction is applied across all the ISOs, with intensity increasing as ISO fragments display and considering your preference for correcting them. Since ISO 100 has little to no ISO noise, there isn't much application. Whereas, as you get higher, then more gets applied (again, based on how much you've set it to apply). So, no it doesn't "kick in" at 12,800, it is kicking in all the time (but from very light to very heavy as it believes is necessary).

FWIW, I set mine to Low when I shoot JPEGs as that gives me the best balance of detail and grain reduction/smoothness. If you shoot RAW, then this reduction doesn't get applied to those files, they are "raw".

As far as Manual anything, I wish I was good enough to have split-second adjustment knowledge and skill... but, I don't. So I shoot as much as I can in Auto, with my own adjustments based on the scenario (WB, aperture, exposure, etc). I think most folks just shoot in RAW and then fix everything later. The world is full of options and possibilities!

Hope this is a helpful.

Take care,

Joel

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rick in vegas Contributing Member • Posts: 557
Re: Bought a new Z6 and I am struggling. Please Help.
1

Its the lens you are using. Slow and old. Also on Z6 that's like 9.5MP only. Suggest 24-70mm f/4 used .

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