Leica Q2 M or Leica Q2

brick33308 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Orsonneke wrote:

I am looking for a camera to be used in street photography.
mostly using a Fujifilm Xpro 2 with 23/2 lens.

I want to indulge into the Leica world and made a first test with a Q2 at the local store.
However , as being mainly a b/w shooter , the Q2 M attracts a lot!

Well if you are mainly a B&W shooter, go Q2M.- particularly if you shoot in low light as the high iso is pretty great. Just remember you don't have any ability to do post-B&W filters.

I would pick that over the Q2 color if you really can say bye to color. If not the Q2 is still pretty great.

can anyone give advice?

thanks

pretty much agree but would add that unless the photog who primarily shoots b/w is also primarily shooting in low light, then I don't see the advantage of the Q2M b/w images over those that are converted (and with flexibility of color filters) produced by the Q2.

Well the Q2M will still give you more detail for not having to do the demosaic. But you definitively lose the flexibility of post-capture color filters.

To be honest in a way, I see that as a bit of an advantage- you have to make the choices at the time of capture, think more ahead, etc.

LenRivers wrote:

all you have to do with the standard Q2 is set monochrome mode and you can shoot in black and white.

But again, that's the point. On the Q2M the RAW Is B/W.  You have to make it work, there's no other choice.  Either you got it or you didn't.

If you shoot raw only it will preview in color and you decide to stay in color or make the final conversion to b&w

depends like I’ve said if you want to always see things in black and white sure. But sometimes color is so much better. For example I want to see a sunrise or sunset with all the colors

That's only if you care about color. Which is why I qualified my recommendation if you really want to go all B&W.

I want to see colorful flowers etc

sure for certain artistic stuff it works. It’s all personal style

Oh definitively it's personal.  Just pointing out one advantage I see of the Q2M is the fact that even when you are between a rock and a hard place- B&W is all you have and you have to make it work. That extra "do or die" kind of constraint can push you to a new level of skill.

But again- if you care about B&W only.

Raist3d wrote:

LenRivers wrote:

all you have to do with the standard Q2 is set monochrome mode and you can shoot in black and white.

But again, that's the point. On the Q2M the RAW Is B/W. You have to make it work, there's no other choice. Either you got it or you didn't.

Exactly

If you shoot raw only it will preview in color and you decide to stay in color or make the final conversion to b&w

depends like I’ve said if you want to always see things in black and white sure. But sometimes color is so much better. For example I want to see a sunrise or sunset with all the colors

That's only if you care about color. Which is why I qualified my recommendation if you really want to go all B&W.

You can still care about both, my Q2M is used alongside my Canon 5d mkiv.

I want to see colorful flowers etc

sure for certain artistic stuff it works. It’s all personal style

Oh definitively it's personal. Just pointing out one advantage I see of the Q2M is the fact that even when you are between a rock and a hard place- B&W is all you have and you have to make it work. That extra "do or die" kind of constraint can push you to a new level of skill.

But again- if you care about B&W only.

I agree, this is why I bought one, it’s a whole different ball game.

LenRivers wrote:

CM99 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

LenRivers wrote:

all you have to do with the standard Q2 is set monochrome mode and you can shoot in black and white.

But again, that's the point. On the Q2M the RAW Is B/W. You have to make it work, there's no other choice. Either you got it or you didn't.

Exactly

you should not have to make anything just work again if one is gunho about something that is a personal choice

Nobody is disputing this is a personal choice.  We are talking about what that personal choice entails if you go for a Q2M.

Plus if you have the money to burn why not

If you shoot raw only it will preview in color and you decide to stay in color or make the final conversion to b&w

depends like I’ve said if you want to always see things in black and white sure. But sometimes color is so much better. For example I want to see a sunrise or sunset with all the colors

That's only if you care about color. Which is why I qualified my recommendation if you really want to go all B&W.

You can still care about both, my Q2M is used alongside my Canon 5d mkiv.

I do that as well, but as soon as I see my usage slows a lot or my needs change I sell the camera gear used it represents $100 bills that need to come back

I always sleep on the impulse to be sure as much as I can

This is always a good idea

I want to see colorful flowers etc

sure for certain artistic stuff it works. It’s all personal style

Oh definitively it's personal. Just pointing out one advantage I see of the Q2M is the fact that even when you are between a rock and a hard place- B&W is all you have and you have to make it work. That extra "do or die" kind of constraint can push you to a new level of skill.

But again- if you care about B&W only.

I agree, this is why I bought one, it’s a whole different ball game.

not really a different thing at all in all my years no one will be critical of what they do or spend even if it is GAS it would mean they are wasting money However if one thinks it’s the best money they spent then it is

We aren't talking about GAS here. Sure, if you are buying because it's new, shiny and different then that's GAS.  But we are talking about forcing oneself to go all B&W and if that's the kind of photog style you want to go with.

It doesn't change the constraints you are imposing of yourself to go this route, and will force you to do things differently even when you think you can't.  Because there's no other option.

if one holds on to gear cause they truly enjoy and use it it’s the right decision

And to be clear again- yes, this is a personal choice.

biocon wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

LenRivers wrote:

all you have to do with the standard Q2 is set monochrome mode and you can shoot in black and white.

But again, that's the point. On the Q2M the RAW Is B/W. You have to make it work, there's no other choice. Either you got it or you didn't.

If you shoot raw only it will preview in color and you decide to stay in color or make the final conversion to b&w

depends like I’ve said if you want to always see things in black and white sure. But sometimes color is so much better. For example I want to see a sunrise or sunset with all the colors

That's only if you care about color. Which is why I qualified my recommendation if you really want to go all B&W.

I want to see colorful flowers etc

sure for certain artistic stuff it works. It’s all personal style

Oh definitively it's personal. Just pointing out one advantage I see of the Q2M is the fact that even when you are between a rock and a hard place- B&W is all you have and you have to make it work. That extra "do or die" kind of constraint can push you to a new level of skill.

But again- if you care about B&W only.

I for one, can appreciate the B&W only philosophy. My issue with the Q2M, is that it is considerably more expensive then the Q2.

In pragmatic terms that's a consideration. As a concept, we can take money out and evaluate, and see what the concept brings.

The Q2 has the advantage of using color channels for b&w conversion, and can be used for color and b&w images.

Yup, but has the disadvantage of DR, ISO and not pin-point B&W plus always having that option to go back to color (the concept being discussed).

The Q2M has the advantage of being a pure b&w camera with better high iso. A fairly equal trade off in my mind if identically priced. One being $1000 more than the other makes the decision real easy for me.

I think part of the issue is that a monochrome sensor doesn't enjoy the same economies of scale. And we are all talking about Leica in this room too.

Then again, perhaps I’m not the typical customer for either if price is a concern, but I sure do like my Q2! We all have our individual criteria and thresholds. There is no wrong choice here, evaluate what’s important to you and pick one.

Well of course. That doesn't take away advantages for the concept- the decision in the end is up to each individual.

I had an M240 and M246 a few years back. I still miss the M246 because (when you nailed focus) the tonality of the files was sublime. Very special indeed. Having that type of raw file with autofocus is very appealing to me. I would forego the benefits of colour channel control for those amazing files.

I still didn’t make up my mind yet.

looking after reviews, it is now clear to me that:

-you don’t get that much difference in sharpness with the Q2M compared to the Q2.

-you loose flexibility in post.

-however , as being a street shooter going out in the evening as well , the noise advantage is obvious!

Can one of the Q2M shooters tell how many stops in noise you win with the Q2M?

Thanks

To be honest, I think you're over-emphasizing tiny technical spec differencess; it's very likely these will be irrelevant in most viewing situations. At 40+MP, and with modern demozaicing-algorithms, differences in sharpness will be very much irrelevant, and modern 135-format sensors, even colour-versions, handle low light very well.

The major difference between the Bayer and M-version of the camera is the presence or absence of the colour array filter. Will you embrace its absence? Then go for the M-version, otherwise for the Bayer-version Get the camera you think you will enjoy most.

At 4.18, Mattias gives the advice that pretty well summarizes my attitude to buying cameras:

Orsonneke wrote:

I still didn’t make up my mind yet.

looking after reviews, it is now clear to me that:

-you don’t get that much difference in sharpness with the Q2M compared to the Q2.

-you loose flexibility in post.

-however , as being a street shooter going out in the evening as well , the noise advantage is obvious!

Can one of the Q2M shooters tell how many stops in noise you win with the Q2M?

From what I've seen the Q2M's noise advantage at higher ISOs is 1.5–1.67 stops.

My take overall is much like Sjak's: if you have any interest in color photography with a 28mm lens, get the standard Q2. IMO the noise factor isn't relevant 'til ~ISO 3200 and not really significant 'til ISO 12500, when the Q2's files start breaking up a bit when viewed at full res. But in real-world use, unless you're regularly making huge prints, even this isn't that big a deal.

Anyway, pic one and start using it!

-Dave-

Orsonneke wrote:

I still didn’t make up my mind yet.

looking after reviews, it is now clear to me that:

-you don’t get that much difference in sharpness with the Q2M compared to the Q2.

-you loose flexibility in post.

-however , as being a street shooter going out in the evening as well , the noise advantage is obvious!

Can one of the Q2M shooters tell how many stops in noise you win with the Q2M?

Thanks

I also struggled with the RGB/MONO choice and had almost decided to go with the RGB version, but in the end chose the Mono.  My Hasselblad 907x/50CII produces fantastic color images so I had no real need for another RGB camera.  The files from the Q2m are just amazing for their tonality and detail, even at very high ISO.

Robgo2 wrote:

I own (and love) my Q2. It is an amazing street camera. I frequently convert the color images to B&W in ON1 Photo RAW. The results are excellent. About two weeks ago, I surrendered to GAS and purchased a Q2M. What I have learned is that everything that M-Monochrom users have been saying for years is true. The difference in B&W image quality is real and it is not trivial. This difference is due to a combination of detail, sharpness and especially tonality. There seems to be almost no limit to how far shadows can be pulled. Some of the prints I have made are astounding. The images almost fly off the paper. Even my wife is impressed. Her immediate response was "Wow!"

Is the Q2M worth its lofty price? For me it is, but I can speak only for myself. In any case, one needs to have a second camera (preferably with interchangeable lenses) for color shooting. In addition to the Q2, I have a CL with a nice set of lenses.

Damn this definitely isn't helping my G.A.S. 😂

Glad you like it though! Maybe in a few years when it's cheaper used I'll buy one lol