Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

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topg Forum Member • Posts: 65
Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?
1

On my Z6, setting d2: Max. Continuous Release should limit the number of shots taken in a single burst, but this only seems to work with the mechanical shutter. While in silent shooting mode with otherwise identical settings, bursts just continue past this max limit without stopping.

Can someone verify? Is this a bug or expected feature?

Nikon Z6
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skyrunr
skyrunr Senior Member • Posts: 1,091
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

See the manual page 127

Also recommended:

https://www.wimarys.com/nikon-z6-ii-advanced-manual/

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OP topg Forum Member • Posts: 65
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

skyrunr wrote:

See the manual page 127

Also recommended:

https://www.wimarys.com/nikon-z6-ii-advanced-manual/

There's nothing relevant to this question on p.127 of the Z6/7 manual as far as I can tell, and the advanced manual (for Z6, not Z6ii) just cuts & pastes the relevant text from the official manual link that I already posted (and doesn't menton it not working with ES). So thanks, but that wasn't what I needed.

PLShutterbug Contributing Member • Posts: 812
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?
1

skyrunr wrote:

See the manual page 127

Also recommended:

https://www.wimarys.com/nikon-z6-ii-advanced-manual/

There are two documents normally called “the manual.” One is the User Manual, currently 272 pages from front cover to back cover. The other is the Reference Manual, currently 504 pages.

Both manuals show differences in page count (the front cover is document page 1) vs. page numbering (the printed number at the bottom of a sheet; page 1 is the 25th page in the document).

Neither of these makes reference to “Max. Continuous Release” on either their document page or numbered page 127 in version 3.00 (the latest published versions).

I also looked at the Z6ii manual but it doesn’t reference “Max. Continuous Release” on either document or manual page 127.

Which document, and which page 127 are you referring to?

The Wim Arys “manual” doesn’t contain the text “Max. continuous Release” anywhere on the web page (a very long single page).

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PLShutterbug Contributing Member • Posts: 812
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?
1

topg wrote:

On my Z6, setting d2: Max. Continuous Release should limit the number of shots taken in a single burst, but this only seems to work with the mechanical shutter. While in silent shooting mode with otherwise identical settings, bursts just continue past this max limit without stopping.

Can someone verify? Is this a bug or expected feature?

My Z7 behaves the same way. With the camera in manual mode (top left dial set to “M”) I set d2 to 4 (Nikon! Why didn’t you make this changeable via tapping a number keypad, or at least allowing me to roll from 200 “up” to 1 again? It took me almost a minute to change from the default of 200 to 4! - but I digress). I set the release mode to Continuous High (without the *) and it fired off 4 shots and stopped. I then set the shutter to silent and it just kept going until I released the button.

I am running firmware v. 3.10.

I would call this a bug since the behavior difference is not documented.

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skyrunr
skyrunr Senior Member • Posts: 1,091
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

Sorry, I was confusing FPS for continuous, but I remembered reading something similar.

It sounds like the silent photography "un-limit" is overriding the shutter type settings.

...and page 357 "there is no limit to the number of photos that can be taken in a single burst, regardless of the option chosen from Custom Setting d2."

PS  I REALLY HATE that Nikon's PDF manual blocks copy/paste. I usually make spreadsheets of the menus from them. There are always workarounds. Just rude of them really...

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24Peter
24Peter Veteran Member • Posts: 4,579
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

topg wrote:

On my Z6, setting d2: Max. Continuous Release should limit the number of shots taken in a single burst, but this only seems to work with the mechanical shutter. While in silent shooting mode with otherwise identical settings, bursts just continue past this max limit without stopping.

Can someone verify? Is this a bug or expected feature?

I'm not sure about the ES issue, but p 263 of the Manual specifies that when the SS exceeds 1 sec in S or M mode then the Max Cont Release number you selected is overwritten and the camera goes indefinitely. Maybe that's your issue?

Personally, I wish Nikon gave the option for infinite continuous shutter releases at any shutter speed. Coming from Canon which has no such limitations, this infinite release is helpful for star trails and storm chasing. But since those exposures tend to be longer than 4 sec, the limit can be circumvented on the Z's. On my D850 if I recall correctly there was a 200 max continuous release regardless of SS which was a PITA.

So... OP if your shutter is beyond 1 sec that may be your problem since it sounds like you're the opposite of me: you want a hard limit no matter what.

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OP topg Forum Member • Posts: 65
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?
3

skyrunr wrote:

Sorry, I was confusing FPS for continuous, but I remembered reading something similar.

It sounds like the silent photography "un-limit" is overriding the shutter type settings.

...and page 357 "there is no limit to the number of photos that can be taken in a single burst, regardless of the option chosen from Custom Setting d2."

PS I REALLY HATE that Nikon's PDF manual blocks copy/paste. I usually make spreadsheets of the menus from them. There are always workarounds. Just rude of them really...

OK, thanks, so now I've tracked down your quote: it's on p.357 of the Z6ii reference manual and on p.391, but there's no mention of it in the Z7/6 reference manual. As per title, I have the Z6.

Z7/6 reference manual p.263 about setting d2: "Note that regardless of the option selected, there is no limit to the number of photos that can be taken in a single burst when a shutter speed of 1 s or slower is selected in mode S or M."

Wording changed in the Z6ii reference manual p.391 to: "Note that regardless of the option selected, there is no limit to the number of photos that can be taken in a single burst during silent photography or when a shutter speed of 1 s or slower is selected in mode S or M."

It solves the mystery somewhat, as obviously Nikon felt it necessary to clarify for the Z6ii, although the same behaviour is evident in the Z6 (and Z7 too it appears).

What isn't clear now is why Nikon chose not to implement the limit for ES - they don't give any reason. It doesn't really make sense.

Edit: perhaps Nikon considers the max continuous release number to be a limitation that they're happy to remove for ES usage. But I just see it as a way of controlling my bursts that's missing for silent photography. What they should do is add a 'No limit' option when ES is enabled, but when a number is given instead this should be honoured.

PLShutterbug Contributing Member • Posts: 812
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

skyrunr wrote:

Sorry, I was confusing FPS for continuous, but I remembered reading something similar.

It sounds like the silent photography "un-limit" is overriding the shutter type settings.

...and page 357 "there is no limit to the number of photos that can be taken in a single burst, regardless of the option chosen from Custom Setting d2."

PS I REALLY HATE that Nikon's PDF manual blocks copy/paste. I usually make spreadsheets of the menus from them. There are always workarounds. Just rude of them really...

The OP was asking about the original cameras, not the “ii” series. For those, in the Reference Manual neither the document nor manual page 357 says what you write above.

In the original Reference Manual, the only reference to the quote above refers to shutter speeds longer than 1 second, not about Silent Photography - the manual seems to be silent about Silent Photography ignoring custom setting d2.

Your reference is to the Z6ii Reference Manual page 357, and it specifically states that d2 is ignored with Silent Photography enabled. So, the effect has always existed but was undocumented in the original models.

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skyrunr
skyrunr Senior Member • Posts: 1,091
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

I'd like to see a lot less of those "green checkbox" (special/limitations/restrictions) in Nikon help manuals.    I tried to use the web/online version of the manual and they don't have ANY of the checkbox tips/notes in them.  I actually went one step further and made a separate document of the issues I think I'll run into, along with the page number, and keep it on my phone.

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PLShutterbug Contributing Member • Posts: 812
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

skyrunr wrote:

I'd like to see a lot less of those "green checkbox" (special/limitations/restrictions) in Nikon help manuals. I tried to use the web/online version of the manual and they don't have ANY of the checkbox tips/notes in them. I actually went one step further and made a separate document of the issues I think I'll run into, along with the page number, and keep it on my phone.

I’ve done that with a few key settings - and then I forget to check.

I notice the ii manuals are different - a skinny “user manual” that is about 1/3 the length of the “i“ user Manual, and a really thick (840+ pages!!) Reference Manual. I think that is better since a lot of the “i” manuals were duplicated.

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skyrunr
skyrunr Senior Member • Posts: 1,091
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

I agree, there is a balance.  I like reading the physical reference manual when traveling to/on vacations.  I think the D500's was one of the most repetitive/longer manuals ever.

I counted, and there are at least 26 items within the camera's menu that do not have ANY help (?) information on them.  Sure, most are obvious, but for a for a new user Nikon shouldn't assume any option is; and include those checkmark items.

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Stavrosf Regular Member • Posts: 119
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/06_shooting_controls_04.html

I hope this helps (there is some info about silent shutter on a table, but not about electronic shutter).

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Richard B99 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,032
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?
1

topg wrote:

On my Z6, setting d2: Max. Continuous Release should limit the number of shots taken in a single burst, but this only seems to work with the mechanical shutter. While in silent shooting mode with otherwise identical settings, bursts just continue past this max limit without stopping.

Can someone verify? Is this a bug or expected feature?

The setting basically just protects the mechanical shutter from running continuously and thus possible damage if it’s actuated accidentally in, say a bag,  With the electronic shutter it’s not an issue as there are no moving parts.  You can take video images all day with no issue too.  So I’d say it’s an expected feature,  I’d be most disappointed to have my video limited to a few hundred frames

OP topg Forum Member • Posts: 65
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?
1

Richard B99 wrote:

topg wrote:

On my Z6, setting d2: Max. Continuous Release should limit the number of shots taken in a single burst, but this only seems to work with the mechanical shutter. While in silent shooting mode with otherwise identical settings, bursts just continue past this max limit without stopping.

Can someone verify? Is this a bug or expected feature?

The setting basically just protects the mechanical shutter from running continuously and thus possible damage if it’s actuated accidentally in, say a bag, With the electronic shutter it’s not an issue as there are no moving parts. You can take video images all day with no issue too. So I’d say it’s an expected feature, I’d be most disappointed to have my video limited to a few hundred frames

That indeed seems to be the case, but why then does Nikon allow us to set a number for max continuous release? What purpose does a number below the 'safe' maximum for the mechanical shutter actually serve? I'm experiencing some cognitive dissonance here.

What I really want is to be able to shoot bursts in controlled batches without fretting, particularly when shooting live performances, and that's possible with the mechanical shutter but not while silent shooting (essential in some live shows).

PLShutterbug Contributing Member • Posts: 812
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

Stavrosf wrote:

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/06_shooting_controls_04.html

I hope this helps (there is some info about silent shutter on a table, but not about electronic shutter).

“Silent Photography (Shutter)“ is Nikon’s term for electronic shutter.

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Richard B99 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,032
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

topg wrote:

Richard B99 wrote:

topg wrote:

On my Z6, setting d2: Max. Continuous Release should limit the number of shots taken in a single burst, but this only seems to work with the mechanical shutter. While in silent shooting mode with otherwise identical settings, bursts just continue past this max limit without stopping.

Can someone verify? Is this a bug or expected feature?

The setting basically just protects the mechanical shutter from running continuously and thus possible damage if it’s actuated accidentally in, say a bag, With the electronic shutter it’s not an issue as there are no moving parts. You can take video images all day with no issue too. So I’d say it’s an expected feature, I’d be most disappointed to have my video limited to a few hundred frames

That indeed seems to be the case, but why then does Nikon allow us to set a number for max continuous release? What purpose does a number below the 'safe' maximum for the mechanical shutter actually serve? I'm experiencing some cognitive dissonance here.

What I really want is to be able to shoot bursts in controlled batches without fretting, particularly when shooting live performances, and that's possible with the mechanical shutter but not while silent shooting (essential in some live shows).

Ah, that I can’t help you with but I have found it useful with the mech shutter when taking bursts with flash.  I restrict the burst to 2 or 3 so the flash can do those and then recharge.  Works nicely with remote control at a distance but as you can’t use flash with silent (elec) shutter, not having it in that mode doesn’t matter there either.  But that’s such a weird edge case that I’d be very surprised if that’s actually their logic.

Stavrosf Regular Member • Posts: 119
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?

PLShutterbug wrote:

Stavrosf wrote:

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/06_shooting_controls_04.html

I hope this helps (there is some info about silent shutter on a table, but not about electronic shutter).

“Silent Photography (Shutter)“ is Nikon’s term for electronic shutter.

This is not true.

1) There is D5 option (Shutter Type) where you are using the type of shutter (Auto, Mechanical, Electronic).

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/09_menu_guide_05_d05.html

2) Silent Photography is another option on the menu.

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/05_basic_settings_03.html

According to the Thom Hogan book for Z6 and Z7 (latest version p.107 - I simplify what he is saying):

Mechanical Shutter: Mechanical shutter closes before and after the exposure (and then opens again).

Electronic Shutter: Mechanical shutter closes only after the exposure (and the open agains).

Silent Photography doesn't include mechanical shutter at all.

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PLShutterbug Contributing Member • Posts: 812
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?
1

Stavrosf wrote:

PLShutterbug wrote:

Stavrosf wrote:

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/06_shooting_controls_04.html

I hope this helps (there is some info about silent shutter on a table, but not about electronic shutter).

“Silent Photography (Shutter)“ is Nikon’s term for electronic shutter.

This is not true.

1) There is D5 option (Shutter Type) where you are using the type of shutter (Auto, Mechanical, Electronic).

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/09_menu_guide_05_d05.html

2) Silent Photography is another option on the menu.

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/05_basic_settings_03.html

According to the Thom Hogan book for Z6 and Z7 (latest version p.107 - I simplify what he is saying):

Mechanical Shutter: Mechanical shutter closes before and after the exposure (and then opens again).

Electronic Shutter: Mechanical shutter closes only after the exposure (and the open agains).

Silent Photography doesn't include mechanical shutter at all.

The full term for what you are discussing is electronic front-curtain shutter. Not sure if that is what the poster meant.

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OP topg Forum Member • Posts: 65
Re: Z6 Max Continuous Release - doesn't work with electronic shutter?
1

Stavrosf wrote:

PLShutterbug wrote:

Stavrosf wrote:

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/06_shooting_controls_04.html

I hope this helps (there is some info about silent shutter on a table, but not about electronic shutter).

“Silent Photography (Shutter)“ is Nikon’s term for electronic shutter.

This is not true.

1) There is D5 option (Shutter Type) where you are using the type of shutter (Auto, Mechanical, Electronic).

https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/z7_z6/en/09_menu_guide_05_d05.html

Except neither the manual nor the camera refer to it as plain "Electronic shutter" in d5, both explicitly use the term "Electronic front-curtain shutter" there. This is well-understood as an enhancement of the mechanical shutter operation for reducing shutter shock; and what Nikon refers to as "Silent Shooting" (which is what I'm posting about) others such as Canon refer to as "Electronic shutter" (and put on the same Shutter mode menu as EFCS as a separate option, unlike Nikon). You're neeedlessly confusing matters here IMHO by not reading closely enough the sources that you reference.

Anyway, back to pondering the ways of Nikon ...

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