RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

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Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 13,204
RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

So, the long-delayed ZX1 has eventually arrived, but to me it seems that it's not only very over-priced, but years out of date. I certainly wouldn't buy one, but then, I wasn't much tempted by the RX1Rii or Q2. I'd be more tempted by the A7C if I wanted a compact FF camera.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/zeiss-zx1-initial-review

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 48,266
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

Digital Nigel wrote:

So, the long-delayed ZX1 has eventually arrived, but to me it seems that it's not only very over-priced, but years out of date. I certainly wouldn't buy one, but then, I wasn't much tempted by the RX1Rii or Q2. I'd be more tempted by the A7C if I wanted a compact FF camera.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/zeiss-zx1-initial-review

The 2 cameras are so different that I don't think they are comparable. As DPR describes it

"Zeiss needed to do something a little different; instead of being mostly a phone that has some extra camera bits on it, the ZX1 is perhaps best thought of as a camera with some phone bits built in (like another old-timer, the Nikon S800c)."

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Tom

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OP Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 13,204
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

tbcass wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

So, the long-delayed ZX1 has eventually arrived, but to me it seems that it's not only very over-priced, but years out of date. I certainly wouldn't buy one, but then, I wasn't much tempted by the RX1Rii or Q2. I'd be more tempted by the A7C if I wanted a compact FF camera.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/zeiss-zx1-initial-review

The 2 cameras are so different that I don't think they are comparable. As DPR describes it

"Zeiss needed to do something a little different; instead of being mostly a phone that has some extra camera bits on it, the ZX1 is perhaps best thought of as a camera with some phone bits built in (like another old-timer, the Nikon S800c)."

That's just how much of Andorid is surfaced (I believe the Sony cameras also use an Android foundation). They're both fixed lens FF compacts with Zeiss 35mm f/2 lenses, and a rather dated specification.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 48,266
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

Digital Nigel wrote:

tbcass wrote:

The 2 cameras are so different that I don't think they are comparable. As DPR describes it

"Zeiss needed to do something a little different; instead of being mostly a phone that has some extra camera bits on it, the ZX1 is perhaps best thought of as a camera with some phone bits built in (like another old-timer, the Nikon S800c)."

That's just how much of Andorid is surfaced (I believe the Sony cameras also use an Android foundation). They're both fixed lens FF compacts with Zeiss 35mm f/2 lenses, and a rather dated specification.

I will say that being the old fashioned person I am the ZX 1 interface turns me off so if I was to choose between the two the RX1R would be my obvious choice. From my POV the ZX1 is an inferior camera and a downgrade. I like buttons and wheels.

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Tom

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OP Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 13,204
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

tbcass wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

tbcass wrote:

The 2 cameras are so different that I don't think they are comparable. As DPR describes it

"Zeiss needed to do something a little different; instead of being mostly a phone that has some extra camera bits on it, the ZX1 is perhaps best thought of as a camera with some phone bits built in (like another old-timer, the Nikon S800c)."

That's just how much of Andorid is surfaced (I believe the Sony cameras also use an Android foundation). They're both fixed lens FF compacts with Zeiss 35mm f/2 lenses, and a rather dated specification.

I will say that being the old fashioned person I am the ZX 1 interface turns me off so if I was to choose between the two the RX1R would be my obvious choice. From my POV the ZX1 is an inferior camera and a downgrade. I like buttons and wheels.

I 100% agree. If I had to choose between these outdated cameras, I'd choose the RX1Rii every time.

The mandatory use of a touch screen for basic controls in such an expensive pro camera just seems completely wrong. It was OK in the cheap, entry-level Canon G9X, but not in the ZX1. And it's nice if the touch screen complements physical controls, but it shouldn't be the only interface to even basic controls in a camera like that.

I have to wonder if there has been a long debate in Zeiss about whether it was worth releasing at all, or if it should just be written off as a failed idea. Maybe the guy blocking the release left?

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Ed B
Ed B Forum Pro • Posts: 11,155
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

Digital Nigel wrote:

So, the long-delayed ZX1 has eventually arrived, but to me it seems that it's not only very over-priced, but years out of date. I certainly wouldn't buy one, but then, I wasn't much tempted by the RX1Rii or Q2. I'd be more tempted by the A7C if I wanted a compact FF camera.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/zeiss-zx1-initial-review

Considering the price of that thing it seems like a joke.

Most people who can afford one are smart enough not to waste their money.

OP Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 13,204
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?
1

Ed B wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

So, the long-delayed ZX1 has eventually arrived, but to me it seems that it's not only very over-priced, but years out of date. I certainly wouldn't buy one, but then, I wasn't much tempted by the RX1Rii or Q2. I'd be more tempted by the A7C if I wanted a compact FF camera.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/zeiss-zx1-initial-review

Considering the price of that thing it seems like a joke.

Most people who can afford one are smart enough not to waste their money.

They probably already own an RX1Rii or Q2 anyway, so this would give them nothing new or better.

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tomtofa Junior Member • Posts: 36
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?
1

I waited for the RX1 for years. Sorry to say the released camera isn't an upgrade for me. Too expensive, no exposure comp dial, worse AF (from initial reports), no GPS. I'll be interested to see full reviews to compare the image quality, but so far - no.

JDLaing50 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?
1

I’m curious why you think a camera from a different manufacturer would be an upgrade for a Sony camera.

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OP Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 13,204
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?
1

JDLaing50 wrote:

I’m curious why you think a camera from a different manufacturer would be an upgrade for a Sony camera.

Why not?  It's a newer, more expensive model in exactly the same niche. They even both have Zeiss-branded lenses with the same spec.

I bought a Sony  RX10M3 as an upgrade on my Panasonic FZ1000, and an RX100M6 as an upgrade on my Panasonic TZ100 I bought a Canon G7X as an upgrade on my RX100.

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AsKim Junior Member • Posts: 49
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

No chance, as a camera ZX1 is a downgrade:

1) It’s twice the size!

2) It’s almost twice the weight!

3) RX1 series cameras still delivers excellent IQ and it unlikely that the ZX1 will be on par: DXO still ranks the RX1Rii as #8!

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JDLaing50 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

I’m curious why you think a camera from a different manufacturer would be an upgrade for a Sony camera.

Why not? It's a newer, more expensive model in exactly the same niche. They even both have Zeiss-branded lenses with the same spec.

I bought a Sony RX10M3 as an upgrade on my Panasonic FZ1000, and an RX100M6 as an upgrade on my Panasonic TZ100 I bought a Canon G7X as an upgrade on my RX100.

It’s just flat not a Sony camera. A whole different approach.  The lens is not the same spec. It was developed to match the Zeiss in house developed sensor. The Sony RXIRIII is a rehashed lens from the earlier cameras. I’ve used both and there is no comparison.

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OP Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 13,204
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

JDLaing50 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

I’m curious why you think a camera from a different manufacturer would be an upgrade for a Sony camera.

Why not? It's a newer, more expensive model in exactly the same niche. They even both have Zeiss-branded lenses with the same spec.

I bought a Sony RX10M3 as an upgrade on my Panasonic FZ1000, and an RX100M6 as an upgrade on my Panasonic TZ100 I bought a Canon G7X as an upgrade on my RX100.

It’s just flat not a Sony camera. A whole different approach. The lens is not the same spec. It was developed to match the Zeiss in house developed sensor. The Sony RXIRIII is a rehashed lens from the earlier cameras. I’ve used both and there is no comparison.

I know they're not identical lenses, but they're both Zeiss-branded full-frame 35mm f/2 lenses. Why should a lens be developed to suit a particular sensor?  None of the Sony RX or Alpha lenses were developed for one, specific sensor.

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JDLaing50 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

I’m curious why you think a camera from a different manufacturer would be an upgrade for a Sony camera.

Why not? It's a newer, more expensive model in exactly the same niche. They even both have Zeiss-branded lenses with the same spec.

I bought a Sony RX10M3 as an upgrade on my Panasonic FZ1000, and an RX100M6 as an upgrade on my Panasonic TZ100 I bought a Canon G7X as an upgrade on my RX100.

It’s just flat not a Sony camera. A whole different approach. The lens is not the same spec. It was developed to match the Zeiss in house developed sensor. The Sony RXIRIII is a rehashed lens from the earlier cameras. I’ve used both and there is no comparison.

I know they're not identical lenses, but they're both Zeiss-branded full-frame 35mm f/2 lenses. Why should a lens be developed to suit a particular sensor? None of the Sony RX or Alpha lenses were developed for one, specific sensor.

This one is different. Fixed lenses are designed differently than interchangeable. This one is optimized for the sensor.

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OP Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 13,204
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

JDLaing50 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

I’m curious why you think a camera from a different manufacturer would be an upgrade for a Sony camera.

Why not? It's a newer, more expensive model in exactly the same niche. They even both have Zeiss-branded lenses with the same spec.

I bought a Sony RX10M3 as an upgrade on my Panasonic FZ1000, and an RX100M6 as an upgrade on my Panasonic TZ100 I bought a Canon G7X as an upgrade on my RX100.

It’s just flat not a Sony camera. A whole different approach. The lens is not the same spec. It was developed to match the Zeiss in house developed sensor. The Sony RXIRIII is a rehashed lens from the earlier cameras. I’ve used both and there is no comparison.

I know they're not identical lenses, but they're both Zeiss-branded full-frame 35mm f/2 lenses. Why should a lens be developed to suit a particular sensor? None of the Sony RX or Alpha lenses were developed for one, specific sensor.

This one is different. Fixed lenses are designed differently than interchangeable. This one is optimized for the sensor.

In what way?  What is there about this particular sensor that the lens needs to be optimised for?  What does it do that the RX1RII lens does not?

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JDLaing50 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

I’m curious why you think a camera from a different manufacturer would be an upgrade for a Sony camera.

Why not? It's a newer, more expensive model in exactly the same niche. They even both have Zeiss-branded lenses with the same spec.

I bought a Sony RX10M3 as an upgrade on my Panasonic FZ1000, and an RX100M6 as an upgrade on my Panasonic TZ100 I bought a Canon G7X as an upgrade on my RX100.

It’s just flat not a Sony camera. A whole different approach. The lens is not the same spec. It was developed to match the Zeiss in house developed sensor. The Sony RXIRIII is a rehashed lens from the earlier cameras. I’ve used both and there is no comparison.

I know they're not identical lenses, but they're both Zeiss-branded full-frame 35mm f/2 lenses. Why should a lens be developed to suit a particular sensor? None of the Sony RX or Alpha lenses were developed for one, specific sensor.

This one is different. Fixed lenses are designed differently than interchangeable. This one is optimized for the sensor.

In what way? What is there about this particular sensor that the lens needs to be optimised for? What does it do that the RX1RII lens does not?

What difference does it make? You already stated you won’t be buying one.

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AsKim Junior Member • Posts: 49
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

I know they're not identical lenses, but they're both Zeiss-branded full-frame 35mm f/2 lenses. Why should a lens be developed to suit a particular sensor? None of the Sony RX or Alpha lenses were developed for one, specific sensor.

This one is different. Fixed lenses are designed differently than interchangeable. This one is optimized for the sensor.

In what way? What is there about this particular sensor that the lens needs to be optimised for? What does it do that the RX1RII lens does not?

Well, according to the original marketing materials the 35mm/F2 lens was designed specifically for the RX1. Even if you took it of the camera body, you wouldn’t be able to use it on a regular FE camera.

With fixed lenses the mount can be optimized: The lens can be mounted with greater precision and much closer to the sensor – even with no gap – allowing for quite different lens designs as to how the lens guides the light to the sensor.

There’s nothing new to this and it’s definitely not a ZX1-only feature. Fixed lens legacy cameras such as the Sony R1 and Lecia Digilux 2 had the same kind of optimization, too, as do the Leica Q series.

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OP Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 13,204
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

AsKim wrote:

I know they're not identical lenses, but they're both Zeiss-branded full-frame 35mm f/2 lenses. Why should a lens be developed to suit a particular sensor? None of the Sony RX or Alpha lenses were developed for one, specific sensor.

This one is different. Fixed lenses are designed differently than interchangeable. This one is optimized for the sensor.

In what way? What is there about this particular sensor that the lens needs to be optimised for? What does it do that the RX1RII lens does not?

Well, according to the original marketing materials the 35mm/F2 lens was designed specifically for the RX1. Even if you took it of the camera body, you wouldn’t be able to use it on a regular FE camera.

So, just the same as the ZX1, then.

With fixed lenses the mount can be optimized: The lens can be mounted with greater precision and much closer to the sensor – even with no gap – allowing for quite different lens designs as to how the lens guides the light to the sensor.

Exactly the same considerations apply with both these FF cameras' fixed 35mm f/2 lenses, but that's nothing to do with the ZX1 sensor. Why would the ZX1 lens be any more optimised for a standard-sized FF sensor than the RX1 lens? Is it some novel design of sensor (eg, curved) that needs some special lens design?

There’s nothing new to this and it’s definitely not a ZX1-only feature. Fixed lens legacy cameras such as the Sony R1 and Lecia Digilux 2 had the same kind of optimization, too, as do the Leica Q series.

Sure, but in each case it's to do with the body and lens design, not some feature of the sensor. It applies to all the RX cameras just as much as it does to the ZX1.

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sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 18,961
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

JDLaing50 wrote:

The lens is not the same spec. It was developed to match the Zeiss in house developed sensor. The Sony RXIRIII is a rehashed lens from the earlier cameras.

What RX1RIII? Are you talking about the RX1RII?

You seem to be saying the lens for the RX1 series should have been redesigned when the sensor resolution changed from 24MP to 42MP. Is that your point?

I’ve used both and there is no comparison.

You've used both what? You're saying you've used an RX1R model and the ZX1? How were you able to use the ZX1?

tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 48,266
Re: RX1Rii users: does the ZX1 look like an upgrade?

JDLaing50 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

JDLaing50 wrote:

I’m curious why you think a camera from a different manufacturer would be an upgrade for a Sony camera.

Why not? It's a newer, more expensive model in exactly the same niche. They even both have Zeiss-branded lenses with the same spec.

I bought a Sony RX10M3 as an upgrade on my Panasonic FZ1000, and an RX100M6 as an upgrade on my Panasonic TZ100 I bought a Canon G7X as an upgrade on my RX100.

It’s just flat not a Sony camera. A whole different approach. The lens is not the same spec. It was developed to match the Zeiss in house developed sensor. The Sony RXIRIII is a rehashed lens from the earlier cameras. I’ve used both and there is no comparison.

A camera does not need to have anything in common with another camera to be an upgrade. I am defining upgrade to mean any product that is superior to another.

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Tom

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