Nikon Ain't Dyin

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
jlafferty Senior Member • Posts: 1,317
Nikon Ain't Dyin
4

Solid writeup with charts'n'figures and maff:

https://old.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/k0t8uw/nikon_is_not_dying_they_may_not_be_in_an_amazing/

-- hide signature --

http://jimlafferty.com
General scoundrel. Evocative beats academic.

SNRatio Regular Member • Posts: 487
Re: Nikon Ain't Dyin
3

Interesting, and the comments, taken together, prove the point, I think.

Technically, I think they have not been stronger, relatively, since the 1980es. They have 'always' been lagging behind here and there, I have never seen them so uniformly close to the front. And Nikon must be close to the ultimate 'fail-and-survive' company. Last failure was to focus on 1" mirrorless, and come way too late to the party in FF ML. But now they are there, too. An earlier major failure was the lack of FF DSLRs. Enter the D3 and the D700...

But they may well sink - that will, it now seems, mostly be for non-technical mistakes they refuse to correct. Thom Hogan (http://bythom.com/) points out:

"What I do worry about, and have pointed out for dozens of years now, is that Nikon has never embraced the customer in the high enthusiast/pro camera market. By embrace, I mean engage in meaningful communication with them, and treat them well. Like customers you want to keep selling to over time. This is a friction against their continued success, and it needs to stop. Nikon is still operating on 1950's IBM-style management advice, and it shows."

I'd like to add the narrow-sighted attitude towards 3rd party vendors, and the almost complete lack of interest in a 2020es software-oriented ecosystem: Nikon makes very good tools, but keep on insisting on an extensive control of how you use them. Nikon desperately needs to embrace the Open Source philosophy.

chambeshi Senior Member • Posts: 2,588
Re: Nikon Ain't Dyin
4

SNRatio wrote:

Interesting, and the comments, taken together, prove the point, I think.

Technically, I think they have not been stronger, relatively, since the 1980es. They have 'always' been lagging behind here and there, I have never seen them so uniformly close to the front. And Nikon must be close to the ultimate 'fail-and-survive' company. Last failure was to focus on 1" mirrorless, and come way too late to the party in FF ML. But now they are there, too. An earlier major failure was the lack of FF DSLRs. Enter the D3 and the D700...

But they may well sink - that will, it now seems, mostly be for non-technical mistakes they refuse to correct. Thom Hogan (http://bythom.com/) points out:

"What I do worry about, and have pointed out for dozens of years now, is that Nikon has never embraced the customer in the high enthusiast/pro camera market. By embrace, I mean engage in meaningful communication with them, and treat them well. Like customers you want to keep selling to over time. This is a friction against their continued success, and it needs to stop. Nikon is still operating on 1950's IBM-style management advice, and it shows."

Nikon cannot afford to repeat its mistakes that have eroded its market share again and again (eg end-film era, and early DSLR (D1) peak). Making a conspicuous effort to engage with its loyal (aka returning) clients will indeed be a refreshing change. This is vital as although they have new products pending (eg 2 DSLRs), Nikon persist in cutting themselves off from constructive feedback.

What passes for Nikon's marketing also needs a massive overhaul - noone would notice if their existing marketing dept ceased to be!

For example, there will be negligible costs to upgrade the Custom options in the menus across ALL its prosumer cameras (DSLRs as well as MILCs) to offer the flexibility of its D6. In contrast, the PR benefits will be significant if Nikon acted on recurring complaints (at least from those who rely on advanced features AF settings especially).

Yet they persist in the infantile tradition of ranking them as Pro, Enthusiast etc. Thus the custom options in the D780 (especially) in which the menu options handicap optimizing AF modes etc. Nikon has also handicapped the menus in all the Z MILCs. This problem applies even to the D500 and D850 - eg no Recall Shooting Functions(!) Even the D6 is sold with some Fn buttons effectively disabled (?) eg very few options for Fn2. The tyrannies of stone-headed design strictures, which is presumably yet more symptoms of their fossilized bureaucracy!

These problems would be so simple to fix IF Nikon listened - basically respect customer feedback. OTTH Nikon brag about engaging with Pros but this is extremely incestuous - ie anointed ambassadors, and it's also unclear if Nikon R&D listen to their feedback.

Is this conservatism cultural, as it also persists in the entrenched patriarchal traditions in Japanese academia?

Whatever the reasons, Nikon has run out of time and worn down the patience of its returning clients. I also hear from retailers that most emerging/younger photographers buy other ILC brands (and this is a minority embedded in smartphones).

 chambeshi's gear list:chambeshi's gear list
Nikon D850 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D Nikon AF-S Nikkor 58mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 400mm f/2.8E FL ED VR +20 more
michaeladawson Forum Pro • Posts: 14,891
Re: Nikon Ain't Dyin
2

chambeshi wrote:

Whatever the reasons, Nikon has run out of time and worn down the patience of its returning clients. I also hear from retailers that most emerging/younger photographers buy other ILC brands (and this is a minority embedded in smartphones).

I certainly am not qualified to render an expert opinion on this but I think you may be right.  Although it doesn't really address the "why".

It could be as simple as Nikon deciding to focus on high end products.  Where's the real entry points for young photographers with limited income?  I also think that a lot of this can be explained simply by late entry into mirrorless.  What 20-something is going to buy into a camera brand with a D3xxx or D5xxx?

-- hide signature --

Mike Dawson

 michaeladawson's gear list:michaeladawson's gear list
Nikon D7200 Nikon D5 Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm X-H1 Nikon Z7 +34 more
michaeladawson Forum Pro • Posts: 14,891
Let me add this
1

Perhaps our expectations for Nikon are misplaced.  Nikon followers want to return to those days when Nikon was battling Canon for top dog.  That is probably never going to happen again.  Not with the way the company is currently managed.

I'm not even remotely suggesting that Nikon will end up another Leica.  Maybe Nikon will simply be the company that makes excellent products that are well thought out.  They remain #3 in the 10-15% market share.  A world in which their products are the equal or better of Nikon and Canon.  They simply don't sell as much.

-- hide signature --

Mike Dawson

 michaeladawson's gear list:michaeladawson's gear list
Nikon D7200 Nikon D5 Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm X-H1 Nikon Z7 +34 more
mostlyboringphotog Veteran Member • Posts: 9,543
Re: Nikon Ain't Dyin

Not sure about Nikon itself but excellent DSLR aka OVF will be a gonner as, soon, no one would even remember what is an OVF

So I future proofed by buying D850

 mostlyboringphotog's gear list:mostlyboringphotog's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Pentax 645Z Nikon 1 J5 Fujifilm GFX 50R Canon EOS RP
pekored
pekored Regular Member • Posts: 365
Re: Nikon Ain't Dyin - Matt Irwin Video
2

This is an interesting video from Matt Irwin and I think worth watching.  He points out that Petapixel cherry-picked financial information and left out important facts ... maybe in the interest of click-baiting?

 pekored's gear list:pekored's gear list
Nikon D500 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-80mm F2.8-4E ED VR Tamron 10-24mm F3.5-4.5 (B023) Tamron 70-210mm F4 +1 more
Raul Veteran Member • Posts: 8,595
We are

Regards

-- hide signature --

Once upon a time, a girl with moonlight in her eyes

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads