Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

Started 5 months ago | Questions
OP BirdFan2000 Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

Thank you for your feedback. 😀

Rocket13 Senior Member • Posts: 3,484
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography
2

I shoot BIF with 90D and get good results but I came from the 80D so it basically was just dropping a new engine in my old car. I dont have the 7D Mark II but it only makes sense since it was built for action photography in its day it should out perform the 90D for action shots. If you don't mind having an older sensor and less mega pixels and your main subject is action shots. I would think the proven 7DII would be the logical choice. As others mentioned after seeing results of the R5 and R6 I am wishing I woukd have waited and saved for one of those.but I am happy with my 90D. Dayum this addiction!

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fairfaxian Regular Member • Posts: 300
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

tphotog wrote:

I've gotten the best ever (which isn't really a whole lot) bird photos with my 90D. The 10 frames per second is a HUGE upgrade to what I got with my 5D Mark III.

Only positive intentions, have you tried the 7DII with fully customized AF?

That's still the best after the 1Dx series. Since you mention the 10 fps I assume that you shoot action and for that AF is very important. High pixel density is nice but if the camera misses the bird it's all over.

You have offered excellent feedback -thanks.

I'm still shooting with a 7DII ("saving" for the R5) You mentioned fully customized AF for the 7DII. Would you mind elaborating on that? I get good results with my current setup (mostly getting sharp eyes on BIF) but there's ALWAYS room for improvement. And after many years, I'm still learning to optimize the settings.

(I could use better glass, but can't afford during covid: Canon 400mm f5.6; Sigma 150-600S)

TheBlackGrouse
TheBlackGrouse Veteran Member • Posts: 3,567
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

fairfaxian wrote:

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

tphotog wrote:

I've gotten the best ever (which isn't really a whole lot) bird photos with my 90D. The 10 frames per second is a HUGE upgrade to what I got with my 5D Mark III.

Only positive intentions, have you tried the 7DII with fully customized AF?

That's still the best after the 1Dx series. Since you mention the 10 fps I assume that you shoot action and for that AF is very important. High pixel density is nice but if the camera misses the bird it's all over.

You have offered excellent feedback -thanks.

I'm still shooting with a 7DII ("saving" for the R5) You mentioned fully customized AF for the 7DII. Would you mind elaborating on that? I get good results with my current setup (mostly getting sharp eyes on BIF) but there's ALWAYS room for improvement. And after many years, I'm still learning to optimize the settings.

(I could use better glass, but can't afford during covid: Canon 400mm f5.6; Sigma 150-600S)

That's difficult from the top of my head, five years ago it took me weeks to get the right settings. They are now 'hidden' in presets, dials, knobs etc. There are thousands of options. In fact, I changed more than 90 percent of the menus to get three working presets:

C1: landscapes and macro.

C2: perched birds, stationary animals.

C3: emergency action settings for everything that moves.

Action is on C3 so you can't make a mistake when your eye is at the viewfinder and you are following a bird. Simply rotate to the end. And so on, writing them all down takes days

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TheBlackGrouse
Active outdoor photographer

steinr98 Regular Member • Posts: 443
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography
1

There is no question the 7D MkII has better and faster AF.  Especially for BIF.  Many pros use this camera as a back up.  I have both models and for wild life 7D MkII. The 90D is better for video!  Not all older lenses work on the 90D.  Could be a big factor $$$$.  7D II has better specs for wild life.  I should have bought another new 7D II but went for the newer specs- mistake for wild life!!  Ask 10 people get 10 different answers. Suggest U purchase from dealer that u can return!  Good luck!

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Steinr98

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ButeoRegalis New Member • Posts: 1
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

Rocket13,

Your bird pictures posted in other threads are very nice. Do you have any full size image shot with 90D shared on the net somewhere?

I am having the same 90D vs 7DII dilemma.

Rocket13 Senior Member • Posts: 3,484
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

ButeoRegalis wrote:

Rocket13,

Your bird pictures posted in other threads are very nice. Do you have any full size image shot with 90D shared on the net somewhere?

I am having the same 90D vs 7DII dilemma.

I am way behind on my flikr account not even sure if I have any 90d shots on it

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Canon EOS 80D Canon EOS Rebel T6 Canon EOS 90D
PerfectMark Regular Member • Posts: 237
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography
1

Since you already have cameras you can use if you want to go out, I would personally wait for the R7 next year (crop sensor R mount camera).  The 7Dii is quite an old camera now and while the 90D is a lot newer, as others have said, it still has some downsides to 7Dii.  One of the biggest issues of the 90D is the AF isn't as good through the viewfinder as through live view.  While the R7 is mirrorless, so won't have that limitation.

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acollins Forum Member • Posts: 56
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography
1

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

fairfaxian wrote:

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

tphotog wrote:

I've gotten the best ever (which isn't really a whole lot) bird photos with my 90D. The 10 frames per second is a HUGE upgrade to what I got with my 5D Mark III.

Only positive intentions, have you tried the 7DII with fully customized AF?

That's still the best after the 1Dx series. Since you mention the 10 fps I assume that you shoot action and for that AF is very important. High pixel density is nice but if the camera misses the bird it's all over.

You have offered excellent feedback -thanks.

I'm still shooting with a 7DII ("saving" for the R5) You mentioned fully customized AF for the 7DII. Would you mind elaborating on that? I get good results with my current setup (mostly getting sharp eyes on BIF) but there's ALWAYS room for improvement. And after many years, I'm still learning to optimize the settings.

(I could use better glass, but can't afford during covid: Canon 400mm f5.6; Sigma 150-600S)

That's difficult from the top of my head, five years ago it took me weeks to get the right settings. They are now 'hidden' in presets, dials, knobs etc. There are thousands of options. In fact, I changed more than 90 percent of the menus to get three working presets:

C1: landscapes and macro.

C2: perched birds, stationary animals.

C3: emergency action settings for everything that moves.

Action is on C3 so you can't make a mistake when your eye is at the viewfinder and you are following a bird. Simply rotate to the end. And so on, writing them all down takes days

In addition to the presets mentioned above, there are also the 6 different 'Case' settings in the AF section of the menu that allow you to set each 'Case' for a different type of photographic situation and within each 'Case', you can adjust the sensitivity of the AF further. The degree to which you can customize just the AF alone on the 7D2 is amazing, let alone the rest of the camera. In my opinion (and it's just that-my opinion) if you're not getting very good results from the 7D2 it's because of user error or you haven't utilized the full potential of what the AF system on this camera has to offer.

Andy

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fairfaxian Regular Member • Posts: 300
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

That's difficult from the top of my head, five years ago it took me weeks to get the right settings. They are now 'hidden' in presets, dials, knobs etc. There are thousands of options. In fact, I changed more than 90 percent of the menus to get three working presets:

C1: landscapes and macro.

C2: perched birds, stationary animals.

C3: emergency action settings for everything that moves.

Action is on C3 so you can't make a mistake when your eye is at the viewfinder and you are following a bird. Simply rotate to the end. And so on, writing them all down takes days

In addition to the presets mentioned above, there are also the 6 different 'Case' settings in the AF section of the menu that allow you to set each 'Case' for a different type of photographic situation and within each 'Case', you can adjust the sensitivity of the AF further. The degree to which you can customize just the AF alone on the 7D2 is amazing, let alone the rest of the camera. In my opinion (and it's just that-my opinion) if you're not getting very good results from the 7D2 it's because of user error or you haven't utilized the full potential of what the AF system on this camera has to offer.

Andy

This is the level of info I've been looking for. Can you elaborate. or is that proprietary? After years with the 7DII, I'm still learning & delving deeper into the settings.

I have no issues with static subjects. But BIF can always be improved, esp when birds drop below the horizon in flight. And another thing I may be mis-configuring are the focus points. I typically use a 9pt array, which I often move to get heads/eyes in focus. I'm assuming that the benefit of 65AF points is to offer more options for where to center a specified array. But I may bot be taking full advantage of the settings.

Dave
Dave Veteran Member • Posts: 5,630
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography
1

steinr98 wrote:

Not all older lenses work on the 90D. Could be a big factor $$$$.

Please provide some examples of older lenses that don't work on the 90D.

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TheBlackGrouse
TheBlackGrouse Veteran Member • Posts: 3,567
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography
2

acollins wrote:

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

fairfaxian wrote:

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

tphotog wrote:

I've gotten the best ever (which isn't really a whole lot) bird photos with my 90D. The 10 frames per second is a HUGE upgrade to what I got with my 5D Mark III.

Only positive intentions, have you tried the 7DII with fully customized AF?

That's still the best after the 1Dx series. Since you mention the 10 fps I assume that you shoot action and for that AF is very important. High pixel density is nice but if the camera misses the bird it's all over.

You have offered excellent feedback -thanks.

I'm still shooting with a 7DII ("saving" for the R5) You mentioned fully customized AF for the 7DII. Would you mind elaborating on that? I get good results with my current setup (mostly getting sharp eyes on BIF) but there's ALWAYS room for improvement. And after many years, I'm still learning to optimize the settings.

(I could use better glass, but can't afford during covid: Canon 400mm f5.6; Sigma 150-600S)

That's difficult from the top of my head, five years ago it took me weeks to get the right settings. They are now 'hidden' in presets, dials, knobs etc. There are thousands of options. In fact, I changed more than 90 percent of the menus to get three working presets:

C1: landscapes and macro.

C2: perched birds, stationary animals.

C3: emergency action settings for everything that moves.

Action is on C3 so you can't make a mistake when your eye is at the viewfinder and you are following a bird. Simply rotate to the end. And so on, writing them all down takes days

In addition to the presets mentioned above, there are also the 6 different 'Case' settings in the AF section of the menu that allow you to set each 'Case' for a different type of photographic situation and within each 'Case', you can adjust the sensitivity of the AF further. The degree to which you can customize just the AF alone on the 7D2 is amazing, let alone the rest of the camera. In my opinion (and it's just that-my opinion) if you're not getting very good results from the 7D2 it's because of user error or you haven't utilized the full potential of what the AF system on this camera has to offer.

Andy

Correct, in hides they sometimes say that you have to be 'lucky' to get the shot. No, it's all about preparation, fine-tuning the camera (and of course skills and knowledge of your subjects).

Over the years I have adjusted about 100 7D (II) cameras in the field for users who didn't understand the menus. Often, minor changes made a huge difference, like changing the 'hunting' setting to prevent that the camera keeps focusing when you go from 5 meter to 200. Turn it off and make the first throw manually (or use AF on a huge object with a lot of contrast close to the bird), then the camera does the rest. Or disabling all these settings that slow down the processor, like in-camera noise reduction. And above all, replace the full zone with point expansion. I always tell them that the large zone is for moving turtles, not for fast flying birds.

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TheBlackGrouse
Active outdoor photographer

Rocket13 Senior Member • Posts: 3,484
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

ButeoRegalis wrote:

Rocket13,

Your bird pictures posted in other threads are very nice. Do you have any full size image shot with 90D shared on the net somewhere?

I am having the same 90D vs 7DII dilemma.

All of these are 90D with either Tamron 100-400 or Canon 100-40https://clross0213.myportfolio.com/home

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acollins Forum Member • Posts: 56
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

Rocket13 wrote:

ButeoRegalis wrote:

Rocket13,

Your bird pictures posted in other threads are very nice. Do you have any full size image shot with 90D shared on the net somewhere?

I am having the same 90D vs 7DII dilemma.

All of these are 90D with either Tamron 100-400 or Canon 100-40https://clross0213.myportfolio.com/home

Wow! Those are all outstanding! Very nice work!

Andy

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Rocket13 Senior Member • Posts: 3,484
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography
2

Thank you here is one of my favorites of late (My first owl) my favorite part was its hand held at 1/40 second since it was dark out the owl must have been holding its breath.

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melvinb Regular Member • Posts: 233
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

Rocket13 wrote:

Thank you here is one of my favorites of late (My first owl) my favorite part was its hand held at 1/40 second since it was dark out the owl must have been holding its breath.

melvinb Regular Member • Posts: 233
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

Rocket13 wrote:

ButeoRegalis wrote:

Rocket13,

Your bird pictures posted in other threads are very nice. Do you have any full size image shot with 90D shared on the net somewhere?

I am having the same 90D vs 7DII dilemma.

All of these are 90D with either Tamron 100-400 or Canon 100-40https://clross0213.myportfolio.com/home

Tamron easier to hand hold?  Much difference in imagae quality between the two lenses?
Awesome photos.

thanks

Rocket13 Senior Member • Posts: 3,484
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography
1

I woukd say it is easier. And amazingly not a ton of difference between it and  the L glass , in fact when I first got the L I almost sent it back I thought had to bad copy they were so close. Now with that being said the L is still  sharp at f 5.6 where the Tamron is happy at f 7.1 f8

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tphotog
tphotog New Member • Posts: 7
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

No, I haven't tried the 7D Mark II so I cant do a side-by-side comparison. I'm just real happy with the performance (and the price) of the 90D.

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Saumbi
Saumbi Regular Member • Posts: 143
Re: Canon 7D Mark II or 90D for Bird Photography

A lot of good advice here, thanks! I have not bought a new body since the introduction of the 70D. I thought long and hard and finally bought it over the 7D MKII and have had my regrets since. But I have been waiting for the new 7D MKIII and finally broke.

I have a new 90D being delivered tomorrow, I know the 60D had a lot of misses on focus with BIF, but I have had some pretty good success at the same time. I think I did a lot of you a favor, as with my luck after pulling the trigger on the 90D, you see your introduction of the long waited on 7D MKII any day now!

I will say I am a little skeptical after reading most of this thread, but with the newer Focus system, and resolution on this new body, I hope I see a big improvement in the number of keepers over the older 70D.

I am anxious, but if I am at all disappointed, and see no improvement or very little,,,,, well I have already talked myself into selling it, the 70D and my beloved 1DX and grabbing that R5. I thank everyone here for the tips and suggestions tin advance to hopefully make using this new camera a little easier, and maybe helped keep me from making that bigger plunge!

One thing is for sure,, I will now have a crop body with f8 focus thru the viewfinder!

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