Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

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MNE Senior Member • Posts: 1,476
Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

Hello,

Does DPReview ever consider long-term equipment reliability data in their reviews or just initial quality? I suspect the answer is no, but wanted someone to confirm.

Mark

Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 16,419
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

Take a look at the Camera Shutter Life Expectancy Database:

http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/

That’s the only open list of camera reliability data that I’m aware of. No doubt manufactures keep reliability data, but we aren’t privy to it.

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OP MNE Senior Member • Posts: 1,476
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Take a look at the Camera Shutter Life Expectancy Database:

http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/

That’s the only open list of camera reliability data that I’m aware of. No doubt manufactures keep reliability data, but we aren’t privy to it.

Thank you Mark. I took a look. The data is really really old. No longer relevant.

Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 16,419
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data
1

MNE wrote:

Thank you Mark. I took a look. The data is really really old. No longer relevant.

It has to be old, cameras tend to be very reliable. It might take a decade or two before failure.

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Donald B
Donald B Forum Pro • Posts: 18,064
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

I will give you mine. my em12 failed to trigger my strobes on a shoot the other day so i had to switch to my a7r2 . 2 years old and 20k shots. Edit Im only allowed to say positive things on this site so i was absolutely thrilled at how good my em12 was, its amazing just think how thrilled i was in front of clients when it failed, i will buy another because its so good .NoT

Don

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Olympus EM1mk2, Sony A7r2
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Gerry Winterbourne Forum Pro • Posts: 18,459
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

MNE wrote:

Does DPReview ever consider long-term equipment reliability data in their reviews

How can they be? A review by its nature is of something new, not something old. Would you really expect DPR - or any reviewer - to go back to something they published 10 years ago and assess the durability of the product?

And, more to the point, how could they do so? Every model is produced by the thousand - how can any reviewer find out how many of those thousands have failed; how many are still in use; how many have simply been set aside; how many have been misused or abused?

or just initial quality? I suspect the answer is no, but wanted someone to confirm.

Of course - no need to suspect it; it's the only thing possible.

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Gerry
________________________________________________________________________
I'm happy for anyone to edit any of my photos and display the results
_________________________________________________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
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Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 27,631
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

MNE wrote:

Hello,

Does DPReview ever consider long-term equipment reliability data in their reviews or just initial quality? I suspect the answer is no, but wanted someone to confirm.

Mark

They would either have to purchase gear for long-term use, or manufacturers would have to donate the gear for such purposes.  Neither option is realistic.

IR1234 Senior Member • Posts: 1,773
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

MNE wrote:

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Take a look at the Camera Shutter Life Expectancy Database:

http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/

That’s the only open list of camera reliability data that I’m aware of. No doubt manufactures keep reliability data, but we aren’t privy to it.

Thank you Mark. I took a look. The data is really really old. No longer relevant.

Search on camera. They just aren't listing newer models by the looks of it.

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Gerry Winterbourne Forum Pro • Posts: 18,459
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Take a look at the Camera Shutter Life Expectancy Database:

http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/

That’s the only open list of camera reliability data that I’m aware of. No doubt manufactures keep reliability data, but we aren’t privy to it.

I've never had any faith in it - it's essentially a self-selected sample that is intrinsically more likely to attract failures.

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Gerry
________________________________________________________________________
I'm happy for anyone to edit any of my photos and display the results
_________________________________________________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne
gerry.winterbourne@ntlworld.com

Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 16,419
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

Gerry Winterbourne wrote:

I've never had any faith in it - it's essentially a self-selected sample that is intrinsically more likely to attract failures.

True, but I'm not aware of any alternatives.

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onlyfreeman
onlyfreeman Senior Member • Posts: 2,384
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

Donald B wrote:

my em12 failed

Did you try restarting it? 

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Doug J Forum Pro • Posts: 11,083
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data
2

MNE wrote:

Hello,

Does DPReview ever consider long-term equipment reliability data in their reviews or just initial quality? I suspect the answer is no, but wanted someone to confirm.

Mark

The reliability data is not available from the manufacturers. The only source I'm aware that has sufficient experience based on number of units, and competency in analysis is Lens Rentals. They published failure rates on lenses for several years, I don't know if they still do or if publish the data for both cameras and lenses.

One issue is it takes time to collect the data, when they have the information on a large enough number of a popular, particular camera it has probably been replaced with a new model. Reliability information for an older model doesn't necessarily apply to a new model.

Cheers,
Doug

New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 5,033
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data
1

As others have said, there's a range of reasons why it's just not practical.

What DPR does is share news when issues are identified, like design or manufacturing defects that affect a group of cameras (think D600 oil spots, for instance, or Lens Rental articles). There is also plenty of information dotted through the forums.

So, while DPR does not include this information in reviews and it may not be available in a systematic way, it does support buyers who are wanting to look for information on whether a given brand or model line is more likely to have issues than others.

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OP MNE Senior Member • Posts: 1,476
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

Interesting discussion and I get your point. Just as a consumer, I would sacrifice the more advanced features in behalf of quality and reliability.

Too much is subjective which I guess is the basis for my complaint.

Gerry Winterbourne Forum Pro • Posts: 18,459
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Gerry Winterbourne wrote:

I've never had any faith in it - it's essentially a self-selected sample that is intrinsically more likely to attract failures.

True, but I'm not aware of any alternatives.

Nor am I. While I can see the good intentions behind it the problems are self-evident; I guess that others thinking of doing something similar have recognised that the problems render the idea futile and have dropped it.

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Gerry
________________________________________________________________________
I'm happy for anyone to edit any of my photos and display the results
_________________________________________________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne
gerry.winterbourne@ntlworld.com

Gerry Winterbourne Forum Pro • Posts: 18,459
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data
1

MNE wrote:

Interesting discussion and I get your point. Just as a consumer, I would sacrifice the more advanced features in behalf of quality and reliability.

You don't need to. Cameras are of good quality and reliable - unless you can provide god evidence to the contrary?

Too much is subjective

Too much what is subjective?

which I guess is the basis for my complaint.

What complaint? You simply asked a question.

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Gerry
________________________________________________________________________
I'm happy for anyone to edit any of my photos and display the results
_________________________________________________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne
gerry.winterbourne@ntlworld.com

Donald B
Donald B Forum Pro • Posts: 18,064
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

onlyfreeman wrote:

Donald B wrote:

my em12 failed

Did you try restarting it?

Tried restarting it on the day with no luck, left the battery out all night and it fired up the next day. But after processing 200 sold images with the a7r2 Im going to stick with it. the a7r2 files are to die for processing shadow detail something ive never had 100% quality with my em12. it was such a big day and my assistant was away i missed a few critical shots with my lighting and the sony files recovered them perfectly. will give the em12 a few hours practice to see it the problem comes back and go from there.

Don

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Olympus EM1mk2, Sony A7r2
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Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 27,631
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

MNE wrote:

Interesting discussion and I get your point. Just as a consumer, I would sacrifice the more advanced features in behalf of quality and reliability.

Too much is subjective which I guess is the basis for my complaint.

I echo Gerry's comments.  What specific reliability problem have you experienced?  Your original post indicated no issue whatsoever, merely a query about how reviews were written.

Mark

lilBuddha Veteran Member • Posts: 5,369
Re: Long-Term reliability and serviceability data

Mark B. wrote:

MNE wrote:

Hello,

Does DPReview ever consider long-term equipment reliability data in their reviews or just initial quality? I suspect the answer is no, but wanted someone to confirm.

Mark

They would either have to purchase gear for long-term use, or manufacturers would have to donate the gear for such purposes. Neither option is realistic.

A high volume rental house might have significant data as well.

But really, failure doe to design doesn't seem to be a huge issues with modern cameras. Certainly not within their practical lifespan.

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