Content-Aware Grain

For months I've been intrigued by the content-aware grain tool in Exposure X6.

Finally today I downloaded the 30 day free trial (480mb) and began to experiment.

I have a windows 10 machine with core i5 and 8GB ram. Until I turned off the default GPU selection my computer froze at least twice and I had to physically shut off power to get back control. So, beware.

As a new user I find the file interface very quirky and strange, but I'm used to just going to any file and hitting open, as I do in Photoshop Elements 2020. You don't save a file either, you go to a function called "Export" and you have to plug in whatever file name you want, except I can't change the original file name. For example if the file is PS0024 and I want it to be "orange peel" I can't do that. The "Export" function is too "smart" for me! Again, beware!

Anyway I did get one test shot processed in spite of Exposure's efforts to stop me. It is from my X-T100, taken last year. See what you think and please let me know your opinions. Is it better than other grain tools? Does the grain look film-natural?

Here we see the grain tool controls. The tool gives you individual control of grain in shadow, midtone, and highlight areas, and if you are adding grain to a color image you can adjust the amount of grain that is multicolored, relative to the luminance grain.

Here is the image with added grain: more grain in shadows and less grain in highlights.

Here is the image without added grain.

FYI, here is a link to a grain tool tutorial from Exposure:

https://exposure.software/tutorial/adding-film-grain/

Finally, I'm still on the fence about buying Exposure X6 since the cost is $149.

I am sure it is a fine tool but that seems a bit pricey. Darktable grain module gives a fair amount of control over grain including built in profiles based on ISO. I also occasionally use the grain tool in Lightroom but it does not allow as much control. I have been experimenting with darktable but am on the fence about commuting to the switch and cancelling my Adobe subscription.

Jhuffphoto wrote:

I am sure it is a fine tool but that seems a bit pricey. Darktable grain module gives a fair amount of control over grain including built in profiles based on ISO. I also occasionally use the grain tool in Lightroom but it does not allow as much control. I have been experimenting with darktable but am on the fence about commuting to the switch and cancelling my Adobe subscription.

Can you post a screenshot of the Darktable grain tool? Is it content-aware?

Tom Schum wrote:

Here is the image with added grain: more grain in shadows and less grain in highlights.

Hmm,. I don't typically add grain to my B&W images, but the content aware thing sounds interesting. Honestly though, the Lightroom fake grain isn't content aware, but to my eye it looks pretty good if you don't go nuts with it.

With Lightroom's faux grain; grain all over the place

...and here's another option to try. This is the same thing, but with Topaz Sharpen adding the grain, it's a single slider, but does appear to be content aware (minimally affects the highlights). It's subtle, but I think it looks quite authentic.

Grain by Topaz Sharpen A.I. at 85%

Grain by Topaz Sharpen A.I. at 100%

Why not shoot Acros JPEG on your XT30 and do it in camera?  I am not a huge fan of grain yet understand it can help add to some contrast or depth especially in B&W photos.  Have you tried Capture One?  It has 6 adjustable grain settings and does a pretty decent job matching the film sims.  Of course you can also use layers and sections to apply it in region you care to.  Not content aware but I would prefer to make my own choices and not some form of AI.

It’s there, I see it, i prefer the version with grain, whether it’s worth the investment to you is another matter.  I’ve got to say that for me, shooting Acros in camera is a lot more fun (and gives a similar context sensitive grain), but I appreciate that’s not an option on the XT100.  A strike against that camera, for me.

Tom Schum wrote:

Jhuffphoto wrote:

I am sure it is a fine tool but that seems a bit pricey. Darktable grain module gives a fair amount of control over grain including built in profiles based on ISO. I also occasionally use the grain tool in Lightroom but it does not allow as much control. I have been experimenting with darktable but am on the fence about commuting to the switch and cancelling my Adobe subscription.

Can you post a screenshot of the Darktable grain tool? Is it content-aware?

I don’t think it is “content aware” but it has several adjustments. Darktable is free to download and try for yourself so it would be pointless to post examples (plus I am currently on my mobile device and they don’t support darktable. I am not saying that it is the best tool for the job but the price is right at “free.” The interface for darktable isn’t as smooth as some of the paid solutions and it has a pretty steep learning curve. I would recommend watching Bruce Williams https://www.youtube.com/user/audio2u on YouTube. He has a complete series of videos that explain it well.

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Tom Schum wrote:

Hmm,. I don't typically add grain to my B&W images, but the content aware thing sounds interesting. Honestly though, the Lightroom fake grain isn't content aware, but to my eye it looks pretty good if you don't go nuts with it.

...and here's another option to try. This is the same thing, but with Topaz Sharpen adding the grain, it's a single slider, but does appear to be content aware (minimally affects the highlights). It's subtle, but I think it looks quite authentic.

Thanks for trying a few things and posting your results!

The grain tools you use seem quite like the tools available in Photoshop Elements 2020. The Topaz definitely seems better to me than these but not much. The problem is that the added grain is a little bit too even.

It looks too much like digital noise because it is too even.  This is the main problem with most grain tools in my opinion.  Even the grain option in my X-T3 is this way!

There is no doubt in my mind that the content-aware tool in Exposure X6 has plenty of room for improvement.  One improvement would be to specify the grain size and the luminance boundaries for each of the three areas on the histogram.  But, so far as I know, there is no other content-aware tool out there with even the mediocre controls found in Exposure X6.

Does the Topaz grain tool give you any options?  Can you post a screenshot?

The big problem for me is the $149 price for Exposure X6.  It would be nice to be able to purchase this grain tool at a lower cost as a plug-in.  I really have no use at all for all the other features of this software!

McWoodley wrote:

Why not shoot Acros JPEG on your XT30 and do it in camera? I am not a huge fan of grain yet understand it can help add to some contrast or depth especially in B&W photos. Have you tried Capture One? It has 6 adjustable grain settings and does a pretty decent job matching the film sims. Of course you can also use layers and sections to apply it in region you care to. Not content aware but I would prefer to make my own choices and not some form of AI.

I have Acros on my X-T3 but I would have to buy a X-Pro3 to get better control of grain size and maybe even strength.  What I am getting in my X-T3 is a grain structure far too small for my tastes, although it is pleasing.

I agree with you that Acros JPG in-camera is definitely content-aware.

Threaded wrote:

It’s there, I see it, i prefer the version with grain, whether it’s worth the investment to you is another matter. I’ve got to say that for me, shooting Acros in camera is a lot more fun (and gives a similar context sensitive grain), but I appreciate that’s not an option on the XT100. A strike against that camera, for me.

I see from your equipment list that you have a X-Pro3.  I don't get that level of control of Acros grain in my X-T3.  You're lucky!

Assuming one is trying to simulate film grain the S/W needs to account for some basic facts of where film grain arises and the fact that different film produces different grain profiles.  In B&W the developer also has an impact on the grain.  For example classic D76 contains "silver solvents" which smooth off the sharp edges of the grain while Rodinal has no silver solvents and the grain edges are sharp.  The reason why film developed in Rodinal appears to have more grain than D76.

Grain arises through the development process where in the exposed areas, the silver halides in the emulsion is converted to silver.  The higher the exposure the more silver (denser negative).  In the shadows there is little silver and the fixer removes the unexposed silver halide leaving only the transformed silver.  In the shadows there is little grain in film and in the highlights is where the grain appears. Grain depend on the emulation type.  Thick emulsion films like TriX will have contain bigger clumps of grain in a mix of sizes.  Think emulsion films (classic show films like Ilford Pan F) contains much smaller crystals in the emulsion so much smaller grain with no large clumps.  The Tabular grain films, Kodak T-max, Ilford Delta and Fuji Neopan, the silver halides are flatter and tabular. They tend to be finer grained but have less exposure and development latitude than the traditional grain films.

Film grain is just the opposite of digital noise since digital noise is higher in the shadows than the highlights.

For me the Nik collection provides the optimal tool for film simulations in among other things its ability to simulate realistic grain based on the film selected.  I find Silver Efex to be by far the best S/W for emulating classic and the newer B&W emulsions with a very realistic grain structure with the flexibility to tweak the grain structure to taste.  Granted I am partial to B&W but the few times I have used Analog Efex - it provides a comparable capability for color as Silver Efex does for B&W.

Tom Schum wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Tom Schum wrote:

Hmm,. I don't typically add grain to my B&W images, but the content aware thing sounds interesting. Honestly though, the Lightroom fake grain isn't content aware, but to my eye it looks pretty good if you don't go nuts with it.

...and here's another option to try. This is the same thing, but with Topaz Sharpen adding the grain, it's a single slider, but does appear to be content aware (minimally affects the highlights). It's subtle, but I think it looks quite authentic.

Thanks for trying a few things and posting your results!

The grain tools you use seem quite like the tools available in Photoshop Elements 2020. The Topaz definitely seems better to me than these but not much. The problem is that the added grain is a little bit too even.

It looks too much like digital noise because it is too even. This is the main problem with most grain tools in my opinion. Even the grain option in my X-T3 is this way!

There is no doubt in my mind that the content-aware tool in Exposure X6 has plenty of room for improvement. One improvement would be to specify the grain size and the luminance boundaries for each of the three areas on the histogram. But, so far as I know, there is no other content-aware tool out there with even the mediocre controls found in Exposure X6.

Does the Topaz grain tool give you any options? Can you post a screenshot?

The big problem for me is the $149 price for Exposure X6. It would be nice to be able to purchase this grain tool at a lower cost as a plug-in. I really have no use at all for all the other features of this software!

Sharpen A.I. only has a single slider, but they may have other software that offers more control, not sure about that. I never actually tried the feature before, thought it was worth a try. Like I said, I don’t usually add grain. I will sometimes apply NR selectively and let the noise be the grain if I’m going for a grittier/analog sort of look.

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Assuming one is trying to simulate film grain the S/W needs to account for some basic facts of where film grain arises and the fact that different film produces different grain profiles. In B&W the developer also has an impact on the grain. For example classic D76 contains "silver solvents" which smooth off the sharp edges of the grain while Rodinal has no silver solvents and the grain edges are sharp. The reason why film developed in Rodinal appears to have more grain than D76.

Grain arises through the development process where in the exposed areas, the silver halides in the emulsion is converted to silver. The higher the exposure the more silver (denser negative). In the shadows there is little silver and the fixer removes the unexposed silver halide leaving only the transformed silver. In the shadows there is little grain in film and in the highlights is where the grain appears. Grain depend on the emulation type. Thick emulsion films like TriX will have contain bigger clumps of grain in a mix of sizes. Think emulsion films (classic show films like Ilford Pan F) contains much smaller crystals in the emulsion so much smaller grain with no large clumps. The Tabular grain films, Kodak T-max, Ilford Delta and Fuji Neopan, the silver halides are flatter and tabular. They tend to be finer grained but have less exposure and development latitude than the traditional grain films.

Film grain is just the opposite of digital noise since digital noise is higher in the shadows than the highlights.

For me the Nik collection provides the optimal tool for film simulations in among other things its ability to simulate realistic grain based on the film selected. I find Silver Efex to be by far the best S/W for emulating classic and the newer B&W emulsions with a very realistic grain structure with the flexibility to tweak the grain structure to taste. Granted I am partial to B&W but the few times I have used Analog Efex - it provides a comparable capability for color as Silver Efex does for B&W.

Interesting post, and you describe film grain that is the opposite of my concept.  I'm not saying you are mistaken, to be sure.  I'm most likely to be mistaken, since it has been 50 years since I made enlargements from Plus-X monochrome negatives.

Here is my concept.  If there is less light the emulsion will be thinner and the film grains will be more easily seen.  If there is more light the emulsion will be thicker and the film grains will be closer together and harder to see individually.  Fortunately the Exposure X6 grain tool sliders will support this concept as easily as they will support your concept.

There is not enough control in the Exposure X6 grain tool to allow grain sizes to be different in different luminance areas, unfortunately.  This grain tool is definitely not perfect.

I re-mastered the test shot and here is the result.

Settings.  Notice when the picture is in color, there is a "Color Variation" slider to adjust the balance between color grain and luminance grain.

Color version without grain.

Color version with grain from Exposure X6 according to settings above.

Monochrome conversion in Exposure X6, without grain.

Monochrome conversion in Exposure X6 with added grain according to settings above.

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Assuming one is trying to simulate film grain the S/W needs to account for some basic facts of where film grain arises and the fact that different film produces different grain profiles. In B&W the developer also has an impact on the grain. For example classic D76 contains "silver solvents" which smooth off the sharp edges of the grain while Rodinal has no silver solvents and the grain edges are sharp. The reason why film developed in Rodinal appears to have more grain than D76.

Grain arises through the development process where in the exposed areas, the silver halides in the emulsion is converted to silver. The higher the exposure the more silver (denser negative). In the shadows there is little silver and the fixer removes the unexposed silver halide leaving only the transformed silver. In the shadows there is little grain in film and in the highlights is where the grain appears. Grain depend on the emulation type. Thick emulsion films like TriX will have contain bigger clumps of grain in a mix of sizes. Think emulsion films (classic show films like Ilford Pan F) contains much smaller crystals in the emulsion so much smaller grain with no large clumps. The Tabular grain films, Kodak T-max, Ilford Delta and Fuji Neopan, the silver halides are flatter and tabular. They tend to be finer grained but have less exposure and development latitude than the traditional grain films.

Film grain is just the opposite of digital noise since digital noise is higher in the shadows than the highlights.

For me the Nik collection provides the optimal tool for film simulations in among other things its ability to simulate realistic grain based on the film selected. I find Silver Efex to be by far the best S/W for emulating classic and the newer B&W emulsions with a very realistic grain structure with the flexibility to tweak the grain structure to taste. Granted I am partial to B&W but the few times I have used Analog Efex - it provides a comparable capability for color as Silver Efex does for B&W.

Here is a sample with the Exposure X6 grain sliders reversed, to conform with your concept.

Grain amount sliders reversed, so there will be less grain in shadows and more grain in higlights.

Sample processed for grain according to the settings above.

Truman Prevatt wrote:

For me the Nik collection provides the optimal tool for film simulations in among other things its ability to simulate realistic grain based on the film selected. I find Silver Efex to be by far the best S/W for emulating classic and the newer B&W emulsions with a very realistic grain structure with the flexibility to tweak the grain structure to taste. Granted I am partial to B&W but the few times I have used Analog Efex - it provides a comparable capability for color as Silver Efex does for B&W.

I agree.  Silver Efex Pro is one of my favorite image editors.   The grain sliders (Grain per pixel slider, Grain soft to hard slider and the many film type/tonality adjustments are wonderful for grain that looks like it's part of the image, not grain sitting on top.  And the control point technology allows for quick subtle localized edits that would be harder to do otherwise.

I've had no reason to try other B&W software so I can't give a comparison.  I'm sure there's other nice solutions out there.

Sal

Tom Schum wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Assuming one is trying to simulate film grain the S/W needs to account for some basic facts of where film grain arises and the fact that different film produces different grain profiles. In B&W the developer also has an impact on the grain. For example classic D76 contains "silver solvents" which smooth off the sharp edges of the grain while Rodinal has no silver solvents and the grain edges are sharp. The reason why film developed in Rodinal appears to have more grain than D76.

Grain arises through the development process where in the exposed areas, the silver halides in the emulsion is converted to silver. The higher the exposure the more silver (denser negative). In the shadows there is little silver and the fixer removes the unexposed silver halide leaving only the transformed silver. In the shadows there is little grain in film and in the highlights is where the grain appears. Grain depend on the emulation type. Thick emulsion films like TriX will have contain bigger clumps of grain in a mix of sizes. Think emulsion films (classic show films like Ilford Pan F) contains much smaller crystals in the emulsion so much smaller grain with no large clumps. The Tabular grain films, Kodak T-max, Ilford Delta and Fuji Neopan, the silver halides are flatter and tabular. They tend to be finer grained but have less exposure and development latitude than the traditional grain films.

Film grain is just the opposite of digital noise since digital noise is higher in the shadows than the highlights.

For me the Nik collection provides the optimal tool for film simulations in among other things its ability to simulate realistic grain based on the film selected. I find Silver Efex to be by far the best S/W for emulating classic and the newer B&W emulsions with a very realistic grain structure with the flexibility to tweak the grain structure to taste. Granted I am partial to B&W but the few times I have used Analog Efex - it provides a comparable capability for color as Silver Efex does for B&W.

Interesting post, and you describe film grain that is the opposite of my concept. I'm not saying you are mistaken, to be sure. I'm most likely to be mistaken, since it has been 50 years since I made enlargements from Plus-X monochrome negatives.

Here is my concept. If there is less light the emulsion will be thinner and the film grains will be more easily seen. If there is more light the emulsion will be thicker and the film grains will be closer together and harder to see individually. Fortunately the Exposure X6 grain tool sliders will support this concept as easily as they will support your concept.

There is not enough control in the Exposure X6 grain tool to allow grain sizes to be different in different luminance areas, unfortunately. This grain tool is definitely not perfect.

In B&W the chemistry is pretty simple.  Since color film is basically three layers of B&W emulsion covered by different color filters, followed by a dye transfer process it is a little more subtle but the principle is a same.

The emulation contains silver halide crystals - of all different sizes with high speed films predominately large crystals and low speed films small crystals.  High speed films are normally thick emulsion since the crystals are larger and low speed films thin emulsion.

When photons hit the crystals, they some of the molecules undergo a reaction forming the latent image.  This reaction is proportional to the number of photons, ie intensity.  The developer will react chemically to turn those exposed molecules into metallic silver.  The more photons (higher exposure) the more silver halide crystals are converted to metallic silver by the developer.  In the shadows there is little silver.  At that point the stop bath (acid) reacts with the basic developer stopping the action.  The fixer then dissolves the remaining silver halide crystals so the film is not longer light sensitive.  This leaves unexposed areas clear and highly exposed areas dark with a lot of silver crystals deposited.  The grain arises from the boundaries and the size of the crystals of silver.  These are proportional to the size of the crystals of the silver halide.  So while the shadows will have a little grain and the mid tones a little more, the greatest impact of the grain is in the highlights.  That is the opposite of digital where shot noise is going to be higher in the shadows and not noticeable in the highlights if proper exposure.

Some places grain is quite noticeable is in clouds in a black and white.

In color (negative), there is a second process where in each of three layers, dye is attached to the silver the density of the die proportional to the density of the silver.  This happens in each of the three layers with different colors of dye.  The final process is the silver base image is dissolved leaving only the dye blotches.  The edges of the dye blotches are smoother than the silver crystals they were attached to so the appearance of grain is soften.  That was one of the reasons for the development of the C41 B&W films which reduces the grain compared to a silver B&W film for the same ISO.

Sal Baker wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

For me the Nik collection provides the optimal tool for film simulations in among other things its ability to simulate realistic grain based on the film selected. I find Silver Efex to be by far the best S/W for emulating classic and the newer B&W emulsions with a very realistic grain structure with the flexibility to tweak the grain structure to taste. Granted I am partial to B&W but the few times I have used Analog Efex - it provides a comparable capability for color as Silver Efex does for B&W.

I agree. Silver Efex Pro is one of my favorite image editors. The grain sliders (Grain per pixel slider, Grain soft to hard slider and the many film type/tonality adjustments are wonderful for grain that looks like it's part of the image, not grain sitting on top. And the control point technology allows for quick subtle localized edits that would be harder to do otherwise.

I've had no reason to try other B&W software so I can't give a comparison. I'm sure there's other nice solutions out there.

Sal

The only competition I see for Silver Efex is DXO filmpack.  However, since the acquisition of and the upgrading of the Nik collection including the introduction of the "control point" technology - I suspect film packs has been discontinued.  The good news is the Nik collection can be used in the "edit with" in Capture One, be used as plug ins in Affinity and the Adobe products.

Tom Schum wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Assuming one is trying to simulate film grain the S/W needs to account for some basic facts of where film grain arises and the fact that different film produces different grain profiles. In B&W the developer also has an impact on the grain. For example classic D76 contains "silver solvents" which smooth off the sharp edges of the grain while Rodinal has no silver solvents and the grain edges are sharp. The reason why film developed in Rodinal appears to have more grain than D76.

Grain arises through the development process where in the exposed areas, the silver halides in the emulsion is converted to silver. The higher the exposure the more silver (denser negative). In the shadows there is little silver and the fixer removes the unexposed silver halide leaving only the transformed silver. In the shadows there is little grain in film and in the highlights is where the grain appears. Grain depend on the emulation type. Thick emulsion films like TriX will have contain bigger clumps of grain in a mix of sizes. Think emulsion films (classic show films like Ilford Pan F) contains much smaller crystals in the emulsion so much smaller grain with no large clumps. The Tabular grain films, Kodak T-max, Ilford Delta and Fuji Neopan, the silver halides are flatter and tabular. They tend to be finer grained but have less exposure and development latitude than the traditional grain films.

Film grain is just the opposite of digital noise since digital noise is higher in the shadows than the highlights.

For me the Nik collection provides the optimal tool for film simulations in among other things its ability to simulate realistic grain based on the film selected. I find Silver Efex to be by far the best S/W for emulating classic and the newer B&W emulsions with a very realistic grain structure with the flexibility to tweak the grain structure to taste. Granted I am partial to B&W but the few times I have used Analog Efex - it provides a comparable capability for color as Silver Efex does for B&W.

Here is a sample with the Exposure X6 grain sliders reversed, to conform with your concept.

Grain amount sliders reversed, so there will be less grain in shadows and more grain in higlights.

Sample processed for grain according to the settings above.

For the following the settings have been stepped up, as shown below:

No grain in shadows, lots of grain in highlights, size of grain is larger and strength is higher.

Grain according to settings shown above

Sal Baker wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

For me the Nik collection provides the optimal tool for film simulations in among other things its ability to simulate realistic grain based on the film selected. I find Silver Efex to be by far the best S/W for emulating classic and the newer B&W emulsions with a very realistic grain structure with the flexibility to tweak the grain structure to taste. Granted I am partial to B&W but the few times I have used Analog Efex - it provides a comparable capability for color as Silver Efex does for B&W.

I agree. Silver Efex Pro is one of my favorite image editors. The grain sliders (Grain per pixel slider, Grain soft to hard slider and the many film type/tonality adjustments are wonderful for grain that looks like it's part of the image, not grain sitting on top. And the control point technology allows for quick subtle localized edits that would be harder to do otherwise.

I've had no reason to try other B&W software so I can't give a comparison. I'm sure there's other nice solutions out there.

Sal

Looks like Silver Efex Pro is also $149.  Can you post a screenshot of the grain tool controls?