Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

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Jim B (MSP) Forum Pro • Posts: 10,692
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

jaggedhorizon wrote:

This is one of my favourite street photos. It's shot on a 1-inch sensor and processed in LR (I also had a FF camera with me but at that moment it had a ultrawide zoom on, and I had no chance to change it fast enough).

Which tools could improve the image? (sharpness, noise, etc)

I think the answer to you question is yes - the image can be improved using Topaz deNoise AI and sharpening.

The image I am posting here has had both applied to it. Though I did what I usually do on my Canon images - I used a small amount of LR denoising along with capture sharpening on it before I gave it to Topaz. I could have gotten cleaner skin, but then I saw some artifacts on the shirt and wall edges.

But when I also look at the image done in DXO Deep Prime, it is probably better, especially on the skin. But I also found some artifacts on the wall, but those should not bother anybody.

Here is the LR + Topaz

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Jim B (MSP) Forum Pro • Posts: 10,692
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?
1

Jim B (MSP) wrote:

I think the answer to you question is yes - the image can be improved using Topaz deNoise AI and sharpening.

The image I am posting here has had both applied to it. Though I did what I usually do on my Canon images - I used a small amount of LR denoising along with capture sharpening on it before I gave it to Topaz. I could have gotten cleaner skin, but then I saw some artifacts on the shirt and wall edges.

But when I also look at the image done in DXO Deep Prime, it is probably better, especially on the skin. But I also found some artifacts on the wall, but those should not bother anybody.

Here is the LR + Topaz

Here is the same image as above, but with the shield removed and the broken wall on the right turned into more of a frame. Both are quick edits in Photoshop to get the idea of how it might look.

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Lan Senior Member • Posts: 2,473
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?
4

jaggedhorizon wrote:

Which tools could improve the image? (sharpness, noise, etc)

OK, here's my final version - DxO PhotoLab v4, Topaz Sharpen AI, MyHeritage Photo Restorer, and some final dodging and burning:

DxO PhotoLab v4, Topaz Sharpen AI, MyHeritage Photo Restorer

Here's a 100% crop for comparison:

100% crop, on the left my final version; and on the right the original copy

CrisL Contributing Member • Posts: 830
Re: No link here

C

I found that DXO Deep Prime is much clearer and predictable than Topaz Denoise AI

Here a zoom to compare one denoise with Deep Prime versus Topaz DenoiseAI with default values. I also found some horrible artefacts increasing the Remove Noise in Topaz Denoise AI

Left DXO Deep Prime Right Topaz Denoise AI

I must correct this assumption that Topaz Denoise AI is wrong in this case because I just realized that in fact the bad noise on the right shoulder and the yellow cast of the skin are not comming from Topaz Denoise AI  but from demosaicing with Adobe Camera RAW ! so perhaps Adobe is not handling correctly this camera ?

In this case DXO with DeepPRIME are far better than Adobe CAMERA RAW

Here my comparison DXO DeepPrime on left and  Camera RAW with denoise on Right

left DXO DeepPrime                                                        Right Camera RAW denoise

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CrisL Contributing Member • Posts: 830
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

But when I also look at the image done in DXO Deep Prime, it is probably better, especially on the skin. But I also found some artifacts on the wall, but those should not bother anybody.

Here is the LR + Topaz

Yes this confirm much more artifacts with LR than with DXO DeepPrime and no denoise tool will cure this kind of artifacts.  Perhaps special with this camera ?

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OP jaggedhorizon Senior Member • Posts: 2,453
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?
1

Lan wrote:

jaggedhorizon wrote:

Which tools could improve the image? (sharpness, noise, etc)

OK, here's my final version - DxO PhotoLab v4, Topaz Sharpen AI, MyHeritage Photo Restorer, and some final dodging and burning:

DxO PhotoLab v4, Topaz Sharpen AI, MyHeritage Photo Restorer

Here's a 100% crop for comparison:

100% crop, on the left my final version; and on the right the original copy

Wow, thank you very much for the time taken Lan, that's a significant improvement!

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OP jaggedhorizon Senior Member • Posts: 2,453
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

CrisL wrote:

But when I also look at the image done in DXO Deep Prime, it is probably better, especially on the skin. But I also found some artifacts on the wall, but those should not bother anybody.

Here is the LR + Topaz

Yes this confirm much more artifacts with LR than with DXO DeepPrime and no denoise tool will cure this kind of artifacts. Perhaps special with this camera ?

Cris, Jim, many thanks for the comments! Perhaps I should use my DXO PL3 to process photos from this camera (which I often use for skitouring)...or just bite the bullet and upgrade to PL4:-)

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OP jaggedhorizon Senior Member • Posts: 2,453
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

Jim B (MSP) wrote:

Jim B (MSP) wrote:

I think the answer to you question is yes - the image can be improved using Topaz deNoise AI and sharpening.

The image I am posting here has had both applied to it. Though I did what I usually do on my Canon images - I used a small amount of LR denoising along with capture sharpening on it before I gave it to Topaz. I could have gotten cleaner skin, but then I saw some artifacts on the shirt and wall edges.

But when I also look at the image done in DXO Deep Prime, it is probably better, especially on the skin. But I also found some artifacts on the wall, but those should not bother anybody.

Here is the LR + Topaz

Here is the same image as above, but with the shield removed and the broken wall on the right turned into more of a frame. Both are quick edits in Photoshop to get the idea of how it might look.

The reconstruction of the wall is great!  Since this is a street photo, I'm inclined to leave it as it was - plus I like how the point of the shield above the chess player's head has the same shape as his goatee:-)

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Jim B (MSP) Forum Pro • Posts: 10,692
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

jaggedhorizon wrote:

The reconstruction of the wall is great! Since this is a street photo, I'm inclined to leave it as it was - plus I like how the point of the shield above the chess player's head has the same shape as his goatee:-)

I don't shoot "street photos" as such, so I don't have the same feel as you do. For me this scene was made by the two different and separated twosomes.  And the other items distracted my eye from them.

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CrisL Contributing Member • Posts: 830
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

jaggedhorizon wrote:

CrisL wrote:

But when I also look at the image done in DXO Deep Prime, it is probably better, especially on the skin. But I also found some artifacts on the wall, but those should not bother anybody.

Here is the LR + Topaz

Yes this confirm much more artifacts with LR than with DXO DeepPrime and no denoise tool will cure this kind of artifacts. Perhaps special with this camera ?

Cris, Jim, many thanks for the comments! Perhaps I should use my DXO PL3 to process photos from this camera (which I often use for skitouring)...or just bite the bullet and upgrade to PL4:-)

thank  you  to shared  this very interesting  photo.

I was  very  fan  with  topaz  stuffs  but now  I will  only  use these  after dxo  deep  prime

But perhaps because i  am mainly  using  small  sensors  big zoom  and micro 4/3

I was also quite  surprise by  the  big  difference  between dxo deep  prime and adobe  cr

On  this  raw  .

dxo  said  they  are simultaniously  demosaicing  and denoising with  deep  prime probably the  secret

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Jim B (MSP) Forum Pro • Posts: 10,692
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

CrisL wrote:

But when I also look at the image done in DXO Deep Prime, it is probably better, especially on the skin. But I also found some artifacts on the wall, but those should not bother anybody.

Here is the LR + Topaz

Yes this confirm much more artifacts with LR than with DXO DeepPrime and no denoise tool will cure this kind of artifacts. Perhaps special with this camera ?

You gave me an idea - that I should first convert the raw in Capture One, then follow it with Topaz. I might play later.

My experiences with both CO and LR over the years show that each can do better or worse on a photo depending on the different camera sensor. I played with DarkTable once where you can convert from raw with different algorisms - and saw some interesting variations in the details. Perhaps this camera & sensor is a candidate for that.

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OP jaggedhorizon Senior Member • Posts: 2,453
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

Jim B (MSP) wrote:

jaggedhorizon wrote:

The reconstruction of the wall is great! Since this is a street photo, I'm inclined to leave it as it was - plus I like how the point of the shield above the chess player's head has the same shape as his goatee:-)

I don't shoot "street photos" as such, so I don't have the same feel as you do. For me this scene was made by the two different and separated twosomes. And the other items distracted my eye from them.

Jim - no worries, I really appreciate the time you took and I understand where you're coming from. The beauty of photography is that, by definition, there are so many points of view, and so often something to learn...

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CAcreeks
CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 16,056
Re: PL4 Deep PRIME is the best
2

Your post should have more likes that it does currently. The "final result" below with dodge and burn is good too but required effort, for a modicum of improvement. I agree with you that here it's better without sharpening, which merely adds noise. Wonderful image!

Lan wrote:,

Yes, this would definitely benefit from DeepPRIME IMO.

DxO PhotoLab v4.0.2 DeepPRIME only

Here's the same DxO4 DeepPRIME image after a run through Topaz Sharpen AI v2.2.0:

DxO PhotoLab v4.0.2 DeepPRIME, plus Topaz Sharpen AI v2.2.0 in Focus mode

These are processed roughly to my taste; for this one I'd probably skip Topaz myself, and just use the DeepPRIME version. Hope that's helpful

Van Griff Senior Member • Posts: 1,733
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?
1

jaggedhorizon wrote:

Van Griff wrote:

jaggedhorizon wrote:

This is one of my favourite street photos. It's shot on a 1-inch sensor and processed in LR (I also had a FF camera with me but at that moment it had a ultrawide zoom on, and I had no chance to change it fast enough).

Which tools could improve the image? (sharpness, noise, etc)

jh

Great capture!

I would process the raw file with DxOPL Prime or Deep Prime if you have it . . . I have C1 so I would then open in C1 and do further minor editing . . . lift some shadows a touch . . . adjust exposure black and white points . . . perhaps brighten slightly . . . then send to TOPAZ Sharpen AI for detail sharpening and possibly further noise suppression if needed.

The subjects sit slightly high in the image IMHO . . . a 16:9 crop maintaining the existing top line and removing from the bottom of the image may produce a slightly more pleasing result . . . something to play around with [you can easily play around with the image in your browser rolling down to approximate the 16:9 crop and see if you like].

Great image . . . nicely done!

Best,

V G

Thank you Van Griff!

I've posted the RAW just above if you want to have a test.

jh

Played around a bit with the image . . . opened with DxOPL Deep Prime . . . applied TOPAZ Sharpen AI . . . and other various exposure tweaks.

Thought the subjects were sitting too high in the image so cropped image from the bottom and added image to the top at the expense of deleting the wall plaque that you like . . . could probably be retained with a lot of work and more skill than I have but I find the plaque distracting and particularly the pointed portion pointing at the man below . . . 3:2 crop . . .

Also cropped to 16:9 for comparison . . . the wall plaque could be left in in this configuration . . .

Great capture . . . nicely done!

Best,

V G

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Keit ll Veteran Member • Posts: 4,811
Re: Would this photo benefit from PL DeepPrime? Topaz suite?

jaggedhorizon wrote:

This is one of my favourite street photos. It's shot on a 1-inch sensor and processed in LR (I also had a FF camera with me but at that moment it had a ultrawide zoom on, and I had no chance to change it fast enough).

Which tools could improve the image? (sharpness, noise, etc)

I gave it a go using Topaz Sharpen & Nik Color Effex 4.

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