X-S10 missing "film simulation recipe" (JPEG) custom settings (C1 to C7) capacity?

With X-S10 "Owner`s Manual" PDF becoming available[1], I gave it a look, mainly interested in what`s now possible to store in newly implemented C1 to C4 "Custom Modes" found on mode dial, being one of the things that can vastly improve shooting experience (allowing quick change of many shooting settings at once) and which Fuji was lacking so far.

According the manual (pp. 67-68, or online[2]), custom setting holds these items:

• SHOOTING MODE
• SHUTTER SPEED
• APERTURE
• EXP. COMPENSATION
• DRIVE MODE

... aaand that`s it. Hmm, what? Ok, ok, we might want to give Fuji some slack for allowing these settings only (for now?), X-S10 being the first camera to implement the functionality, where hopefully new items will be available in the future (either in X-S10 itself through firmware updates, or in following camera models).

It`s downright understatement saying that having this low level of customization is barely useful, but there`s actually one other thing that bothers me more...

As we know, "CUSTOM SETTING" is not a new concept for Fuji, just that so far it was tied to JPEG related options - for example, X-T4 offers storing some of these items:

• IMAGE SIZE
• IMAGE QUALITY
• RAW RECORDING
• FILM SIMULATION
• MONOCHROMATIC COLOR
• GRAIN EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME FX BLUE
• WHITE BALANCE (* with shift!)
• DYNAMIC RANGE
• D RANGE PRIORITY
• TONE CURVE (= HIGHLIGHT TONE + SHADOW TONE)
• COLOR
• SHARPNESS
• HIGH ISO NR
• CLARITY
  ... etc.

On top, it was possible to have _seven_ of these "custom setting" banks (C1 to C7), and while the settings here are not at all useful for quick change of actual shooting parameters (or RAW), they allowed enormous JPEG customization possibilities, making it possible to custom-tailor already great Fuji JPEGs to what`s known as "film simulation recipes"[3] - basically enabling the photographer to get preferred JPEGs directly out of camera already, possibly even simulating some of the known analog film stock looks of the old, if desired, all without any post-processing requirement.

Not sure how many people care about this (magnificent JPEG customization) functionality, but I guess I won`t be wrong saying it`s unique and one of the crucial parts of "Fuji experience" - and X-S10 seems to miss it completely...?

I mean, I was definitely one of the people crying out loud to get even more usable "custom settings", where besides JPEG-only options one could set actual shooting options, too, but all that was needed was to _extend_ existing possibilities (merging the two lists above into one, for example, or have them completely separated, even), but  _not_ scrapping one for the other altogether... and that under the same "custom setting" name which used to stand for something else in the first place.

Besides, there was no reason to drop seven "custom setting" banks/slots for only four - there`s nothing wrong with having C1 to C4 quickly accessible through the mode dial (as it is now), while having the rest C5 to C7 (or more) still available through "SELECT CUSTOM SETTING" menu as before (and also available through Q menu, not being the case on X-S10 anymore).

With camera not being much in the wild still, I really hope I`m overlooking something here, otherwise, even though new C1 to C4 shooting options custom settings are a change in a positive direction, losing former C1 to C7 JPEG custom settings seems as a huge negative... or not, X-S10 possibly proving once again to be "Fuji camera for non-Fuji photographers" :/

Eh, I just hope some future models will bring the best of both worlds, at least inside known/established/core Fuji models, allowing existing users to both fine-tune their JPEGs, but also quickly change all kind of shooting settings, too - and all with dedicated/manual control dials still.

The mode dial C#s are PASM related.

The XS10 has a Q button which means it will have all the normal Quick Menu Custom settings.

DarnGoodPhotos wrote:

The mode dial C#s are PASM related.

The XS10 has a Q button which means it will have all the normal Quick Menu Custom settings.

I`m afraid not. It would be great if so, but looking at the manual (PDF[1], online[2]), custom settings can`t be selected through Q menu anymore:

• IMAGE SIZE
• IMAGE QUALITY
• FILM SIMULATION
• GRAIN EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME FX BLUE
• DYNAMIC RANGE
• D RANGE PRIORITY
• WHITE BALANCE
• WHITE BALANCE COLOR TEMP. (WHEN k SELECTED)
• HIGHLIGHT TONE
• SHADOW TONE
• COLOR
• SHARPNESS
• CLARITY
• HIGH ISO NR
• FOCUS MODE
• AF MODE
• AF-C CUSTOM SETTINGS
• FACE/EYE DETECTION SETTING
• MF ASSIST
• TOUCH SCREEN MODE
• SELF-TIMER
• PHOTOMETRY
• SHUTTER TYPE
• FLICKER REDUCTION
• ISO
• FLASH FUNCTION SETTING
• FLASH COMPENSATION
• MOVIE MODE RESOLUTION/ASPECT RATIO
• MOVIE MODE FRAME RATE
• MOVIE MODE BIT RATE
• FULL HD HIGH SPEED REC
• IS MODE
• IS MODE BOOST
• INTERNAL/EXTERNAL MIC LEVEL ADJUSTMENT
• SOUND & FLASH
• EVF/LCD BRIGHTNESS
• EVF/LCD COLOR
• NONE

For comparison, here`s Q menu possible settings listing for X-T4 (note "SELECT CUSTOM SETTING" item, source[3]):

• IMAGE SIZE
• IMAGE QUALITY
• FILM SIMULATION
• GRAIN EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME FX BLUE
• DYNAMIC RANGE
• D RANGE PRIORITY
• WHITE BALANCE
• WHITE BALANCE COLOR TEMP. (WHEN k SELECTED)
• HIGHLIGHT TONE
• SHADOW TONE
• COLOR
• SHARPNESS
• CLARITY
• HIGH ISO NR
• SELECT CUSTOM SETTING
• AF MODE
• AF-C CUSTOM SETTINGS
• FACE/EYE DETECTION SETTING
• MF ASSIST
• TOUCH SCREEN MODE
• SELF-TIMER
• PHOTOMETRY
• SHUTTER TYPE
• FLICKER REDUCTION
• FLASH FUNCTION SETTING
• FLASH COMPENSATION
• EVF/LCD BRIGHTNESS
• EVF/LCD COLOR
• NONE

Besides, "SELECT CUSTOM SETTING" and "EDIT/SAVE CUSTOM SETTING" menu options which used to operate on JPEG-related ("image quality") options are now dealing with new shooting options instead (what the two lists show in my original post), so there doesn`t seem to be a way to select/edit/save previously available JPEG-related options (C1 to C7) anymore...

boogisha wrote:

DarnGoodPhotos wrote:

I think the Mode-dial custom modes are separate from he Q-menu custom settings which should behave like they do on all Fujis. The mode dial C#s are PASM related

That would be great if so, but looking at the manual (PDF[1], online[2] ), custom settings can`t be selected through Q menu anymore:

• IMAGE SIZE
• IMAGE QUALITY
• FILM SIMULATION
• GRAIN EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME FX BLUE
• DYNAMIC RANGE
• D RANGE PRIORITY
• WHITE BALANCE
• WHITE BALANCE COLOR TEMP. (WHEN k SELECTED)
• HIGHLIGHT TONE
• SHADOW TONE
• COLOR
• SHARPNESS
• CLARITY
• HIGH ISO NR
• FOCUS MODE
• AF MODE
• AF-C CUSTOM SETTINGS
• FACE/EYE DETECTION SETTING
• MF ASSIST
• TOUCH SCREEN MODE
• SELF-TIMER
• PHOTOMETRY
• SHUTTER TYPE
• FLICKER REDUCTION
• ISO
• FLASH FUNCTION SETTING
• FLASH COMPENSATION
• MOVIE MODE RESOLUTION/ASPECT RATIO
• MOVIE MODE FRAME RATE
• MOVIE MODE BIT RATE
• FULL HD HIGH SPEED REC
• IS MODE
• IS MODE BOOST
• INTERNAL/EXTERNAL MIC LEVEL ADJUSTMENT
• SOUND & FLASH
• EVF/LCD BRIGHTNESS
• EVF/LCD COLOR
• NONE

For comparison, here`s Q menu possible settings listing for X-T4 (note "SELECT CUSTOM SETTING" items, source[3]):

• IMAGE SIZE
• IMAGE QUALITY
• FILM SIMULATION
• GRAIN EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME FX BLUE
• DYNAMIC RANGE
• D RANGE PRIORITY
• WHITE BALANCE
• WHITE BALANCE COLOR TEMP. (WHEN k SELECTED)
• HIGHLIGHT TONE
• SHADOW TONE
• COLOR
• SHARPNESS
• CLARITY
• HIGH ISO NR
• SELECT CUSTOM SETTING
• AF MODE
• AF-C CUSTOM SETTINGS
• FACE/EYE DETECTION SETTING
• MF ASSIST
• TOUCH SCREEN MODE
• SELF-TIMER
• PHOTOMETRY
• SHUTTER TYPE
• FLICKER REDUCTION
• FLASH FUNCTION SETTING
• FLASH COMPENSATION
• EVF/LCD BRIGHTNESS
• EVF/LCD COLOR
• NONE

Besides, "SELECT CUSTOM SETTING" and "EDIT/SAVE CUSTOM SETTING" menu options which used to operate on JPEG-related ("image quality") options are now dealing with new shooting options instead (what the two lists show in my original post), so there doesn`t seem to be a way to edit/save previously available JPEG-related options anymore...

You can Edit/Save Custom setting in the IQ Menu just like you always could since the X-Pro1. On my X-Pro2 and now X100V I assign the Select Custom Settings to an Fn button because the viewfinder is clear of other information, as opposed to it being cluttered with other Q-Menu squares.

Think about it this way, Fuji has been refining its Q Menu for almost 10 years, they're not about to radically change it now.

DarnGoodPhotos wrote:

boogisha wrote:

Besides, "SELECT CUSTOM SETTING" and "EDIT/SAVE CUSTOM SETTING" menu options which used to operate on JPEG-related ("image quality") options are now dealing with new shooting options instead (what the two lists show in my original post), so there doesn`t seem to be a way to edit/save previously available JPEG-related options anymore...

You can Edit/Save Custom setting in the IQ Menu just like you always could since the X-Pro1. On my X-Pro2 and now X100V I assign the Select Custom Settings to an Fn button because the viewfinder is clear of other information, as opposed to it being cluttered with other Q-Menu squares.

But that`s exactly what I`m saying - you _can`t_ "Edit/Save Custom setting in the IQ Menu just like you always could since the X-Pro1" anymore, it`s changed now.

For example (and already mentioned in original post), X-T4 had these items inside "EDIT/SAVE CUSTOM SETTING" IQ menu:

• IMAGE SIZE
• IMAGE QUALITY
• RAW RECORDING
• FILM SIMULATION
• MONOCHROMATIC COLOR
• GRAIN EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME FX BLUE
• WHITE BALANCE (* with shift!)
• DYNAMIC RANGE
• D RANGE PRIORITY
• TONE CURVE (= HIGHLIGHT TONE + SHADOW TONE)
• COLOR
• SHARPNESS
• HIGH ISO NR
• CLARITY
  ... etc.

The very same "EDIT/SAVE CUSTOM SETTING" IQ menu option in new X-S10 has these items now only (pp. 67-68 of PDF manual[1], or online[2]):

• SHOOTING MODE
• SHUTTER SPEED
• APERTURE
• EXP. COMPENSATION
• DRIVE MODE

Thus well-known "custom setting" functionality seems to be gone now, replaced with new, X-S10 (and PSAM) specific one, unfortunately.

Think about it this way, Fuji has been refining its Q Menu for almost 10 years, they're not about to radically change it now.

That`s what I would like to think, too... except it seem it`s what they just did. Well, no radical changes in Q menu, but "SELECT CUSTOM SETTING" seems to be gone, while its original purpose (JPEG recipes) is arguably one of Fuji`s landmarks... now missing (and _that_ is radical, indeed).

Just go and check the X-S10 manual for yourself - I would like to be wrong here, but I`m afraid I am not...

p.s. You can`t assign "SELECT CUSTOM SETTING" to a function button anymore, either. Here are available functions[3]:

• IMAGE SIZE
• IMAGE QUALITY
• RAW
• FILM SIMULATION
• GRAIN EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME EFFECT
• COLOR CHROME FX BLUE
• DYNAMIC RANGE
• D RANGE PRIORITY
• WHITE BALANCE
• CLARITY
• FOCUS AREA
• FOCUS CHECK
• FOCUS MODE
• AF MODE
• AF-C CUSTOM SETTINGS
• FACE DETECTION ON/OFF
• AF RANGE LIMITER
• FOCUS CHECK LOCK
• SPORTS FINDER MODE
• PRE-SHOT
• SELF-TIMER
• AE BKT SETTING
• FOCUS BKT SETTING
• PHOTOMETRY
• SHUTTER TYPE
• FLICKER REDUCTION
• ISO
• IS MODE
• WIRELESS COMMUNICATION
• FLASH COMPENSATION
• FLASH FUNCTION SETTING
• TTL-LOCK
• MODELING FLASH
• MOVIE RECORDING RELEASE
• FULL HD HIGH SPEED REC
• FIX MOVIE CROP MAGNIFICATION C
• IS MODE BOOST
• ZEBRA SETTING
• INTERNAL/EXTERNAL MIC LEVEL ADJUSTMENT
• MOVIE OPTIMIZED CONTROL
• VIEW MODE SETTING
• PREVIEW DEPTH OF FIELD
• PREVIEW EXP./WB IN MANUAL MODE
• NATURAL LIVE VIEW
• HISTOGRAM
• ELECTRONIC LEVEL
• LARGE INDICATORS MODE
• F-Log VIEW ASSIST
• AE LOCK ONLY
• AF LOCK ONLY
• AE/AF LOCK
• AF-ON
• AWB LOCK ONLY
• PERFORMANCE
• AUTO IMAGE TRANSFER
• SELECT PAIRING DESTINATION
• Bluetooth ON/OFF
• QUICK MENU
• PLAYBACK
• NONE

For comparison, here`s mentioned X-Pro2 listing[4], notice "SELECT CUSTOM SETTING" being one of the available button assignable functions:

• PREVIEW DEPTH OF FIELD
• ISO AUTO SETTING
• SELF-TIMER
• AE BKT
• IMAGE SIZE
• IMAGE QUALITY
• DYNAMIC RANGE
• FILM SIMULATION
• GRAIN EFFECT
• WHITE BALANCE
• PHOTOMETRY
• AF MODE
• AF-C CUSTOM SETTINGS
• FOCUS AREA
• FOCUS CHECK
• FLASH FUNCTION SETTING
• TTL-LOCK
• MODELING FLASH
• SELECT CUSTOM SETTING
• MOVIE
• FACE/EYE DETECTION SETTING
• RAW
• APERTURE SETTING
• WIRELESS COMMUNICATION
• SHUTTER TYPE
• FLICKER REDUCTION
• PREVIEW EXP./WB IN MANUAL MODE
• PREVIEW PIC. EFFECT
• HISTOGRAM
• BRIGHT FRAME SIMULATOR
• BRIGHT FRAME BRIGHTNESS
• LARGE INDICATORS MODE
• NONE

Seems a bit strange but I didn't use them much anyway.

On the other hand the new custom drive settings will get constant use.

I did notice that the C1 choices disappeared from the Q menu too. I thought it was replaced by the custom choices on the PASM dial, but it seems that setting is reserved for a different set of settings. Maybe it will remember what was set inside the IQ section outside of the custom settings...

Greybeard2017 wrote:

Seems a bit strange but I didn't use them much anyway.

I did, but certainly not even as much as I`d like, as X-T3 is still not able to remember white balance shift setting, so changing between different C1 to C7 "recipes" where shift was included (and it usually is, being an important part of the "recipe") is a rather cumbersome and annoying experience (being finally addressed with X-Pro3 and newer models).

Yet the point should rather be that recognizable part of Fuji`s user experience is gone here, and that in the mid-range marketed body (so not really beginner-aimed), and especially one (presumably) made for majority of non-Fuji users, being a great opportunity to showcase it to the new users, too... opportunity missed.

Worse, as it is, it will just split Fuji community further - one preferring "shooting mode" custom settings (X-S10), and other preferring "JPEG options" custom settings, unfortunately both using the same "CUSTOM SETTING" menu option...

And it could all have been avoided by having _both_, making everyone happy. Well, one day in the future, I hope.

On the other hand the new custom drive settings will get constant use.

On the other hand, being as limited as they seem at the moment, I`m afraid that new custom drive settings will not get much real life usage, either.

It`s nice to be able to change SHOOTING MODE, SHUTTER SPEED, APERTURE, EXP. COMPENSATION and DRIVE MODE with a single mode dial flick, but I`d argue some menu-buried settings are even more (or at least as much as) important - like auto ISO MIN. SHUTTER SPEED (when switching to shooting fast or slow paced subjects), or ISO value (when using the flash, or not), or AF MODE (when switching between moving and still subject), DRIVE SETTING (when switching between a burst and single shot), SHUTTER TYPE (switching to/from electronic shutter to stay silent, or be able to use flash), IS MODE (when using the tripod, or not)... and so on, and so on.

New custom drive settings are useless here (as they are implemented at the moment), making their use case rather limited, and more theoretical than practical, I`m afraid.

Inpuressa wrote:

I did notice that the C1 choices disappeared from the Q menu too. I thought it was replaced by the custom choices on the PASM dial, but it seems that setting is reserved for a different set of settings. Maybe it will remember what was set inside the IQ section outside of the custom settings...

That would be fine, I guess (even though C5 to C7 slots are still gone), yet I really doubt it, as I would expect additional IQ section settings included inside "EDIT/SAVE CUSTOM SETTING" menu then, as they were before...

Notice the manual being pretty clear about what`s going to be stored inside the custom settings bank (link[1]):

...

4. Highlight an item you wish to store in the custom settings bank and press MENU/OK. Adjust settings for the selected item.

5. Press MENU/OK to save changes to the selected item and return to the menu item list. Adjust additional items as desired.

...

And "items" being adjustable are the ones mentioned before, namely SHOOTING MODE, SHUTTER SPEED, APERTURE, EXP. COMPENSATION and DRIVE MODE only.

It`s nice to be able to change SHOOTING MODE, SHUTTER SPEED, APERTURE, EXP. COMPENSATION and DRIVE MODE with a single mode dial flick, but I`d argue some menu-buried settings are even more (or at least as much as) important - like auto ISO MIN. SHUTTER SPEED (when switching to shooting fast or slow paced subjects), or ISO value (when using the flash, or not), or AF MODE (when switching between moving and still subject), DRIVE SETTING (when switching between a burst and single shot), SHUTTER TYPE (switching to/from electronic shutter to stay silent, or be able to use flash), IS MODE (when using the tripod, or not)... and so on, and so on.

I don't care about the others but am surprised ISO isn't an option

Greybeard2017 wrote:

It`s nice to be able to change SHOOTING MODE, SHUTTER SPEED, APERTURE, EXP. COMPENSATION and DRIVE MODE with a single mode dial flick, but I`d argue some menu-buried settings are even more (or at least as much as) important - like auto ISO MIN. SHUTTER SPEED (when switching to shooting fast or slow paced subjects), or ISO value (when using the flash, or not), or AF MODE (when switching between moving and still subject), DRIVE SETTING (when switching between a burst and single shot), SHUTTER TYPE (switching to/from electronic shutter to stay silent, or be able to use flash), IS MODE (when using the tripod, or not)... and so on, and so on.

I don't care about the others but am surprised ISO isn't an option

Yeah, new custom settings mode dial functionality seems half-baked, to say the least, but let`s just hope it`s only the beginning of what will eventually be there (as much settings as possible, if not all of it).

Fuji`s not really known for getting all the things right in first attempt(s), even when good implementations exist elsewhere for a long time already, but at least they were known for staying focused and improving on the go, eventually getting there (and usually surpassing it, even).

maltmoose wrote:

I really do hope fuji hasn't limited the the options for storing iso, min shutter speed. If so they just killed the primary use for landscape, action and long exposure which are all perfect for setting separately on the custom dial.

Ffs just copy ricoh and include everything...

I still hope it`s just me misinterpreting the manual, but I guess we can`t really know until some X-S10 user chimes-in in the future (or at least more detailed reviews appear).

Indeed, ideally all the settings would be available for storing inside the "custom setting" C1 to C4 bank, and possibly preferably even left to the user to select which ones should be stored - for example being able to save/load as little as a single setting only, too, leaving all the other existing settings as they are, making for a wildly customizable experience (without a need to always save/load all of them).

boogisha wrote:

Greybeard2017 wrote:

It`s nice to be able to change SHOOTING MODE, SHUTTER SPEED, APERTURE, EXP. COMPENSATION and DRIVE MODE with a single mode dial flick, but I`d argue some menu-buried settings are even more (or at least as much as) important - like auto ISO MIN. SHUTTER SPEED (when switching to shooting fast or slow paced subjects), or ISO value (when using the flash, or not), or AF MODE (when switching between moving and still subject), DRIVE SETTING (when switching between a burst and single shot), SHUTTER TYPE (switching to/from electronic shutter to stay silent, or be able to use flash), IS MODE (when using the tripod, or not)... and so on, and so on.

I don't care about the others but am surprised ISO isn't an option

Yeah, new custom settings mode dial functionality seems half-baked, to say the least, but let`s just hope it`s only the beginning of what will eventually be there (as much settings as possible, if not all of it).

Fuji`s not really known for getting all the things right in first attempt(s), even when good implementations exist elsewhere for a long time already, but at least they were known for staying focused and improving on the go, eventually getting there (and usually surpassing it, even).

Having thought more about this I agree with your half-baked comment.

What could be the reason:

- thinking that it makes things easier to operate?

- lake of proper usability testing?

- does the camera have enough non-volatile memory to hold all the settings?

They did this before - going from X-T2 to X-T3 they dropped the ability lock specific controls from a function button for no apparent reason.

Well, if what's being discussed here is true, we can still use this:)

https://www.fujirumors.com/this-guy-designed-fujifilm-film-simulation-receipt-cards-to-download-and-print/

Found this on yt. Don't understand what they are saying, but showing all these screens to explain the custom settings brings me to hope that all of them will be saved individually... hoping

Inpuressa wrote:

Found this on yt. Don't understand what they are saying, but showing all these screens to explain the custom settings brings me to hope that all of them will be saved individually... hoping

Ah, seeing "CUSTOM 1" on top of each one of these screens brings hope, indeed, and not just for "film recipes", but for really storing many (all?) settings, too

Thanks for this finding!

p.s. Could you please provide the link to YouTube video in question?

boogisha wrote:

Inpuressa wrote:

Found this on yt. Don't understand what they are saying, but showing all these screens to explain the custom settings brings me to hope that all of them will be saved individually... hoping

Ah, seeing "CUSTOM 1" on top of each one of these screens brings hope, indeed, and not just for "film recipes", but for really storing many (all?) settings, too

Thanks for this finding!

p.s. Could you please provide the link to YouTube video in question?

Here you go