Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
yukosteel
yukosteel Regular Member • Posts: 265
Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
2

Probably most of Fuji X shooters know about Mitakon ZhongYi manual focusing lens due to fast aperture F0.95 SPEEDMASTER series (and their most famous 35mm F0.95 mark II lens)

Another known fact is - negative story of exploiting of Meyer Optik Görlitz brand name by re-branding optics of $600 Mitakon 35mm F0.95 mark II and selling that lens as "Made in Germany" for $3000 (not to be confused with newest owner of that lens brand)

And the latest known appearance of Mitakon 35mm F0.95 mark II optical design - are mechanically redesigned Risespray 35mm F0.95, and 7Artisans 35mm F0.95 lens on market, that have optics looking exactly like Mitakon and having similar optical performance. However in this case it's looks like a positive story, because that lens have noticeably lower price - $250 - $300.

I was not completely sure about Risespray/7Artisans adoption of Mitakons optical formula, because can't find exact design picture of Mitakon 35mm F0.95 mkII. But today I discovered another connection - adoption of Mitakon 50mm F0.95 optical design.

Here's design picture from MX camera site, for Mitakon 50mm F0.95 lens (one of older versions):

And here's design of 7Artisans 50mm F1.05 lens they post on official site. Looks very close to Mitakon's optics, probably one of latest versions with improved formula:

 yukosteel's gear list:yukosteel's gear list
Fujifilm X70 Fujifilm X-E2S Voigtlander 40mm F1.4 Nokton Classic Fujifilm XF 50-140mm F2.8 Fujifilm X100V +12 more
Aoi Usagi Senior Member • Posts: 2,317
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
7

This is not surprising. Most of those fast chinese lenses are old double gauss (Biotar/Planar) formula lenses that has been used for probably a century, but with a built in speedbooster/focal reducer at the back end. That's how they get those fast speeds and poor wide open image quality.

-- hide signature --

Formally Evogt500

 Aoi Usagi's gear list:Aoi Usagi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S200EXR Sony Alpha NEX-5N Fujifilm X-Pro1 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Canon EOS 70D +2 more
Truman Prevatt
Truman Prevatt Forum Pro • Posts: 11,495
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands

Aoi Usagi wrote:

This is not surprising. Most of those fast chinese lenses are old double gauss (Biotar/Planar) formula lenses that has been used for probably a century, but with a built in speedbooster/focal reducer at the back end. That's how they get those fast speeds and poor wide open image quality.

Yep nothing really new under the sun.  This looks all awful lot like a few tweaks on the Zeiss original Planar design which dates back to the 1930's.

-- hide signature --

_____
"The winds of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears," Arabic Proverb
__
Truman
www.pbase.com/tprevatt

 Truman Prevatt's gear list:Truman Prevatt's gear list
Fujifilm X-H1 Fujifilm X-Pro3 Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS +12 more
Nightanday Regular Member • Posts: 114
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
2

Aoi Usagi wrote:

... That's how they get those fast speeds and poor wide open image quality.

I doubt you have actually used the mitakon. Its not perfect but It’s far from being poor at 0.95.

sergiotous Forum Member • Posts: 85
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands

, I always wondered about those chinese manufactures making very similar lenses in price, performance and “style”. reminds me of the panorama of the 60s?, when germans (zeiss, leica, etc) were taken over by the japanese (canon, nikon, pentax...) in a commercial sense (price/iq balance).

i dont know much about lens design but, isnt it like most of modern lenses are based on either double gauss (plannar) or sonnar design from the 1930s? are any other current popular base designs for leneses?

 sergiotous's gear list:sergiotous's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Fujifilm X-E3 Canon EF 24-70mm F4L IS USM Fujifilm XF 23mm F2 R WR Fujifilm 50mm F2 R WR +3 more
JayPhizzt Senior Member • Posts: 1,777
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
2

Aoi Usagi wrote:

This is not surprising. Most of those fast chinese lenses are old double gauss (Biotar/Planar) formula lenses that has been used for probably a century, but with a built in speedbooster/focal reducer at the back end. That's how they get those fast speeds and poor wide open image quality.

You obviously haven't used the Mitakon. Center sharpness is definitely good wide open and it also retains the contrast well. Corner sharpness is however poor, but that doesn't matter since you only do oof shots wide open anyway.

 JayPhizzt's gear list:JayPhizzt's gear list
Fujifilm X-T3 Fujifilm XF 16mm F1.4 R WR Fujifilm XF 80mm F2.8 Macro +1 more
Les Lammers
Les Lammers Veteran Member • Posts: 3,972
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
1

Without sample images, where the rubber meets the road, this is simply mental masturbation.

 Les Lammers's gear list:Les Lammers's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X100V Fujifilm X-Pro1 Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm X-E3 +9 more
Raymond L
Raymond L Regular Member • Posts: 252
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
1

I tend to avoid trying to interpret the lens optical diagram and trying to compare different designs.. because I don’t know what is the actual pragmatic outcome and if things are “slightly” different/same between two what does that mean in the real world ? I just don’t have that background.

BUT what I do.. is look at (online) reviews.. which can be challenging at times as there can be too much “marketing influence” (commission ?) so that might change the outcome or perception of the lens..

SO.. there are alot of Chinese manufacturers playing in the lens space (manual focus)arena now.. which I think is great.. they can produce lenses to a “very niche” audience... let’s admit manual focusing is not for everyone and it’s not going to sell (volume) like a “kit lens”.

speaking from my research on the following lenses: mitakon 50mm 0.95, 7artisans 35mm 1.4, 50mm 1.1 (I own), 35mm F2, TTartisans 21 1.5, 35mm 1.4, 50mm 0.95

A lot of these lenses are based from older lens design like a sonar and from there they have done (modern) tweaks to it, I am of the view that a lot of these lenses ARE NOT just copying each other.. they add their own slight spin to their optical design.. as a result a lens that exceeds to certain conditions (parameters) but at a detriment in other areas ..

now so far it sounds like I am “making it all up” but when you read these kind of reviews - https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-ttartisan-50mm-0-95/

(Ref alternatives comparisons) it’s clear there is “not really” one clear winner there are pro/con to each lens.. you got to pick which one is a better fit for you.. although the article is not related to this specific thread.. it just highlights the impacts to the “slight variations” to optical design and the physical design of the lens.

 Raymond L's gear list:Raymond L's gear list
Sony RX1 Sony RX100 IV Leica M9 Nikon D800 Sony a7R II +24 more
Aoi Usagi Senior Member • Posts: 2,317
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands

JayPhizzt wrote:

Aoi Usagi wrote:

This is not surprising. Most of those fast chinese lenses are old double gauss (Biotar/Planar) formula lenses that has been used for probably a century, but with a built in speedbooster/focal reducer at the back end. That's how they get those fast speeds and poor wide open image quality.

You obviously haven't used the Mitakon. Center sharpness is definitely good wide open and it also retains the contrast well. Corner sharpness is however poor, but that doesn't matter since you only do oof shots wide open anyway.

Actually I have, obviously.  The main problem with these double gauss formulas is spherical aberrations which reduces sharpness, especially in the corners.  I have never specifically said anything about center sharpness.   They will never be as sharp as complex modern day lenses which correct for these aberrations.  Of course, you opinion of "definitely good" may differ from mine, so take it with a grain of salt.  To be quite honest, I get sharper images with a Canon FL 55mm F1.2 on a Mitakon Lens Turbo II (which has a similar optical formula when combined), as well as being better built and more affordable.

I'm not saying Mitakon is bad, because the Lens Turbo is great, but their lenses are lack luster for their price point.

-- hide signature --

Formally Evogt500

 Aoi Usagi's gear list:Aoi Usagi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S200EXR Sony Alpha NEX-5N Fujifilm X-Pro1 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Canon EOS 70D +2 more
JayPhizzt Senior Member • Posts: 1,777
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
1

Aoi Usagi wrote:

Actually I have, obviously. The main problem with these double gauss formulas is spherical aberrations which reduces sharpness, especially in the corners. I have never specifically said anything about center sharpness. They will never be as sharp as complex modern day lenses which correct for these aberrations. Of course, you opinion of "definitely good" may differ from mine, so take it with a grain of salt. To be quite honest, I get sharper images with a Canon FL 55mm F1.2 on a Mitakon Lens Turbo II (which has a similar optical formula when combined), as well as being better built and more affordable.

I'm not saying Mitakon is bad, because the Lens Turbo is great, but their lenses are lack luster for their price point.

The technical image quality of the Mitakon is of course not as good as my Fuji lenses for example, but it's a lens capable of absolutely stunning results much thank to it's beautiful color rendition, shallow depth of field and wonderful bokeh.

And just as a couple of points of reference I have both the Fujinon 16/1.4 and 80mm macro which are both VERY sharp lenses, especially the 80mm which is insanely sharp and I still find the Mitakon to be more than sharp enough wide open. And like I said, the corner sharpness is indeed bad, but that's quite irrelevant since you won't notice it in oof shots.

 JayPhizzt's gear list:JayPhizzt's gear list
Fujifilm X-T3 Fujifilm XF 16mm F1.4 R WR Fujifilm XF 80mm F2.8 Macro +1 more
Tom Schum
Tom Schum Forum Pro • Posts: 10,269
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
1

Yes it has been interesting to see all the copycats out here recently.  Maybe some are better; I don't know.

I bought the Mitakon 35mm F0.95 x mount manual lens a couple years ago, am well satisfied with it. It is sharp in the center when wide open and flat enough in field to be useful as a scene lens at F0.95 in low light or with a ND filter.

I don't feel a need to buy anything better or even possibly better.  I did buy a Meike 35mm F1.4 manual x-mount lens just to get something a little bit smaller and lighter, but the image quality of the Mitakon cannot be beat, for those times when image quality and character really matter.

Here are a few Mitakon sample shots:

https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/1438043515/albums/mitakon-35mm-f0-95-ii

-- hide signature --

Tom Schum
Copper: Mankind's favorite electrical conductor

 Tom Schum's gear list:Tom Schum's gear list
Fujifilm X30 Sigma dp0 Quattro Panasonic ZS100 Fujifilm X-E1 Sigma sd Quattro +15 more
Aoi Usagi Senior Member • Posts: 2,317
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands

JayPhizzt wrote:

Aoi Usagi wrote:

Actually I have, obviously. The main problem with these double gauss formulas is spherical aberrations which reduces sharpness, especially in the corners. I have never specifically said anything about center sharpness. They will never be as sharp as complex modern day lenses which correct for these aberrations. Of course, you opinion of "definitely good" may differ from mine, so take it with a grain of salt. To be quite honest, I get sharper images with a Canon FL 55mm F1.2 on a Mitakon Lens Turbo II (which has a similar optical formula when combined), as well as being better built and more affordable.

I'm not saying Mitakon is bad, because the Lens Turbo is great, but their lenses are lack luster for their price point.

The technical image quality of the Mitakon is of course not as good as my Fuji lenses for example, but it's a lens capable of absolutely stunning results much thank to it's beautiful color rendition, shallow depth of field and wonderful bokeh.

And just as a couple of points of reference I have both the Fujinon 16/1.4 and 80mm macro which are both VERY sharp lenses, especially the 80mm which is insanely sharp and I still find the Mitakon to be more than sharp enough wide open. And like I said, the corner sharpness is indeed bad, but that's quite irrelevant since you won't notice it in oof shots.

That's great, and I will respect your opinion, even if it differs from mine.  Just don't accuse others of not using specific equipment when you have no means of knowing and only judging by your own opinions.

-- hide signature --

Formally Evogt500

 Aoi Usagi's gear list:Aoi Usagi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S200EXR Sony Alpha NEX-5N Fujifilm X-Pro1 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Canon EOS 70D +2 more
JayPhizzt Senior Member • Posts: 1,777
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands

Aoi Usagi wrote:

That's great, and I will respect your opinion, even if it differs from mine. Just don't accuse others of not using specific equipment when you have no means of knowing and only judging by your own opinions.

Not accusing anyone of anything. Seems to be many others with the same opinion, though But if you have a different experience of it I of course respect that.

 JayPhizzt's gear list:JayPhizzt's gear list
Fujifilm X-T3 Fujifilm XF 16mm F1.4 R WR Fujifilm XF 80mm F2.8 Macro +1 more
Aoi Usagi Senior Member • Posts: 2,317
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
3

JayPhizzt wrote:

Aoi Usagi wrote:

That's great, and I will respect your opinion, even if it differs from mine. Just don't accuse others of not using specific equipment when you have no means of knowing and only judging by your own opinions.

Not accusing anyone of anything. Seems to be many others with the same opinion, though But if you have a different experience of it I of course respect that.

JayPhizzt wrote:

"You obviously haven't used the Mitakon"

That's called accusing.  And 2 or 3 people is not that many other people.

-- hide signature --

Formally Evogt500

 Aoi Usagi's gear list:Aoi Usagi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S200EXR Sony Alpha NEX-5N Fujifilm X-Pro1 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Canon EOS 70D +2 more
JayPhizzt Senior Member • Posts: 1,777
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
1

Aoi Usagi wrote:

JayPhizzt wrote:

"You obviously haven't used the Mitakon"

And 2 or 3 people is not that many other people.

I wasn't accusing you of anything, I just didn't think you had used it since I the general consensus of the Mitakon seems different from yours.

And I wasn't just referring to people in this thread.

But let's just lay this to rest now, you have your experience, I have mine and that's fine. I'll keep using the Mitakon and you can use other lenses that suite you better.

 JayPhizzt's gear list:JayPhizzt's gear list
Fujifilm X-T3 Fujifilm XF 16mm F1.4 R WR Fujifilm XF 80mm F2.8 Macro +1 more
yukosteel
OP yukosteel Regular Member • Posts: 265
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
1

Tom Schum wrote:

Yes it has been interesting to see all the copycats out here recently. Maybe some are better; I don't know.

I bought the Mitakon 35mm F0.95 x mount manual lens a couple years ago, am well satisfied with it. It is sharp in the center when wide open and flat enough in field to be useful as a scene lens at F0.95 in low light or with a ND filter.

I don't feel a need to buy anything better or even possibly better. I did buy a Meike 35mm F1.4 manual x-mount lens just to get something a little bit smaller and lighter, but the image quality of the Mitakon cannot be beat, for those times when image quality and character really matter.

Here are a few Mitakon sample shots:

https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/1438043515/albums/mitakon-35mm-f0-95-ii

Yes it is very interesting to observe how lens are evolving over time though adopting or copying and improving.

I personally strongly agree about joy of use regarding Mitakon 35mm F0.95 II . Purchased my first sample shortly after its release, and few other samples later, and very much like image results with that lens. And here's the interesting point of other lens brands improving that lens by making it actually smaller and lighter and also less expensive, but using same lens formula to deliver what I had with Mitakon.

 yukosteel's gear list:yukosteel's gear list
Fujifilm X70 Fujifilm X-E2S Voigtlander 40mm F1.4 Nokton Classic Fujifilm XF 50-140mm F2.8 Fujifilm X100V +12 more
Aoi Usagi Senior Member • Posts: 2,317
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands

JayPhizzt wrote:

Aoi Usagi wrote:

JayPhizzt wrote:

"You obviously haven't used the Mitakon"

And 2 or 3 people is not that many other people.

I wasn't accusing you of anything, I just didn't think you had used it since I the general consensus of the Mitakon seems different from yours.

And I wasn't just referring to people in this thread.

But let's just lay this to rest now, you have your experience, I have mine and that's fine. I'll keep using the Mitakon and you can use other lenses that suite you better.

We are good.

-- hide signature --

Formally Evogt500

 Aoi Usagi's gear list:Aoi Usagi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S200EXR Sony Alpha NEX-5N Fujifilm X-Pro1 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Canon EOS 70D +2 more
Samuraidog Contributing Member • Posts: 695
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
2

Les Lammers wrote:

Without sample images, where the rubber meets the road, this is simply mental masturbation.

Pffffffffffffft. LOL at "mental masturbation" on a forum like this.

 Samuraidog's gear list:Samuraidog's gear list
Fujifilm X-E2S Fujifilm X-T30 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS +9 more
Pennyfan
Pennyfan Contributing Member • Posts: 583
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands
2

yukosteel wrote:

And the latest known appearance of Mitakon 35mm F0.95 mark II optical design - are mechanically redesigned Risespray 35mm F0.95, and 7Artisans 35mm F0.95 lens on market, that have optics looking exactly like Mitakon and having similar optical performance. However in this case it's looks like a positive story, because that lens have noticeably lower price - $250 - $300.

I was not completely sure about Risespray/7Artisans adoption of Mitakons optical formula, because can't find exact design picture of Mitakon 35mm F0.95 mkII. But today I discovered another connection - adoption of Mitakon 50mm F0.95 optical design.

I have pre-ordered the 7 Artisans 35mm f0.95, will do a side by side comparison with my Mitakon counterpart.

http://www.instagram.com/pennyfan.photography

 Pennyfan's gear list:Pennyfan's gear list
Fujifilm X-T3 Fujifilm X-Pro3 Fujifilm XF 56mm F1.2 R Fujifilm 16-55mm F2.8R LM WR Venus Laowa 9mm F2.8 +4 more
yukosteel
OP yukosteel Regular Member • Posts: 265
Re: Mitakon ZhongYi lens design adoption by other photo brands

Pennyfan wrote:

yukosteel wrote:

And the latest known appearance of Mitakon 35mm F0.95 mark II optical design - are mechanically redesigned Risespray 35mm F0.95, and 7Artisans 35mm F0.95 lens on market, that have optics looking exactly like Mitakon and having similar optical performance. However in this case it's looks like a positive story, because that lens have noticeably lower price - $250 - $300.

I was not completely sure about Risespray/7Artisans adoption of Mitakons optical formula, because can't find exact design picture of Mitakon 35mm F0.95 mkII. But today I discovered another connection - adoption of Mitakon 50mm F0.95 optical design.

I have pre-ordered the 7 Artisans 35mm f0.95, will do a side by side comparison with my Mitakon counterpart.

http://www.instagram.com/pennyfan.photography

Thank you! That will be awesome to hear your impressions as a current Mitakon owner.

So far I'm very pleased with Risespray 35mm F0.95, after shooting with Mitakon for 4 years. I'd expect same, or better performance from 7Artisans. Unlike some other lens of that brand like 50mm F1.8, the optical core of 35mm F0.95 is more solidly built, so should be a higher chance to receive sample with perfect optical alignment.

 yukosteel's gear list:yukosteel's gear list
Fujifilm X70 Fujifilm X-E2S Voigtlander 40mm F1.4 Nokton Classic Fujifilm XF 50-140mm F2.8 Fujifilm X100V +12 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads