Sony 24-105 f4 G vs. Sony 24-70 f2.8 GM... flickr bias

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OP charley5 Senior Member • Posts: 2,329
Re: My ratings of six lenses' IQ after doing research...

TravelMore wrote:

charley5 wrote:

I can't test in person. I live in a town in the Himalayas,

I call "Field Trip"! Let's all go visit charley5, bringing one or both of these lenses and have a shoot off!

jk

Sounds great! Although covid travel restrictions may be in force.

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TravelMore
TravelMore Regular Member • Posts: 291
Re: My ratings of six lenses' IQ after doing research...

charley5 wrote:

TravelMore wrote:

charley5 wrote:

I can't test in person. I live in a town in the Himalayas,

I call "Field Trip"! Let's all go visit charley5, bringing one or both of these lenses and have a shoot off!

jk

Sounds great! Although covid travel restrictions may be in force.

I'm  hoping for a re-opening soon. Once the airlines start administering tests at the airport.  At least I hope!!  I've optimistically booked a trip for June.  Prob. Not on time  for your purchase though.  Lol
~TM

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OP charley5 Senior Member • Posts: 2,329
Re: My ratings of six lenses' IQ after doing research...

TravelMore wrote:

charley5 wrote:

TravelMore wrote:

charley5 wrote:

I can't test in person. I live in a town in the Himalayas,

I call "Field Trip"! Let's all go visit charley5, bringing one or both of these lenses and have a shoot off!

jk

Sounds great! Although covid travel restrictions may be in force.

I'm hoping for a re-opening soon. Once the airlines start administering tests at the airport. At least I hope!! I've optimistically booked a trip for June. Prob. Not on time for your purchase though. Lol
~TM

I am going to the Spiti Valley around that time, bordering Tibet. It is like the "Land that Time Forgot". I want a landscape lens that will do justice to the scenery there.

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TravelMore
TravelMore Regular Member • Posts: 291
Re: My ratings of six lenses' IQ after doing research...

charley5 wrote:

I am going to the Spiti Valley around that time, bordering Tibet. It is like the "Land that Time Forgot". I want a landscape lens that will do justice to the scenery there.

Ok, I had never heard of this place and just spent an hour checking out utube videos on it.  I will eagerly await your pictures!!

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~TM

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MattiD80 Contributing Member • Posts: 794
Re: Sony 24-105 f4 G vs. Sony 24-70 f2.8 GM... flickr bias
2

I own both the Sony 24-70mm GM F2.8 and the Sigma 24-70mm DG DN Art F2.8. I will sell the GM when i have time (more on reason later), i'm actually considering a 24-105mm F4 if i see a cheap one used, so i can have a lens with OSS (good for video shooting i think but also fun to have an alternative. List why Sigma is best lens (reasons)

Sigma has by far the fewest chromatic aberration of the 3 lenses (24-105mm f4 the most, but not so much more then the gmaster), even when removed, you see soft edges on detailed surfaces like top of trees/buildings.

Bokeh: best on Sigma. Not a massive difference but it's there.

Colours: Sigma really surprised me. Their Nano porous coating so far really impressed me (also own sigma 14-24mm dg dn, wich has similar colours - lovely lens btw). Sony Gmaster is second, but i find them a bit to the dark/brown side compared to Sigma. Sigma more spread out colours without being to saturated. Also more contrast for sure.

Sharpness: Sigma wins especially at infinity for landscape. 24mm, GM 'should be sharper' (general consensus) but my copy aint good here, the corners shop quickly drop off (not decentering is equal everywhere). At 35mm Gmaster is prime sharp. Sigma is just a nodge behind (but still very good for zoom, better then any other i think). At 50mm Sigma gets the lead again and at 70mm the Gmaster is really really soft at far distance, at closer distance it's ok but not amazing. At close distance i think Sigma looses or equals the Gmaster but the difference is neglible here (unlike the infinity difference).

Size: Sigma is better balanced, and 35 gram less weight.

Build quality: no preference, both are epic.

AF: Af may be slightly better on the Gmaster but i notice almost no difference, it's amazing how good Sigma did.

Also while a bit weird, 24mm, the Sigma can focus incredible close, a nice extra. After having used the nikon 24-70mm VR, and like you compared loads of images (and used the sharpest as a benchmark per lens).

Most zoom sacrafice a lot of corners sharpness and other stuff like astigmatism. The Sigma really stunned me by limiting these by a greater amount then standard zooms usually do, imo only the Nikon 24-70mm F2.8s trumps it (but cost more then double, and nikon also has slouches in their line up like 20mm F1.8).

Take a big look at Sigma imo, I bought it for 1089€ and it's a big steal at that price.

OP charley5 Senior Member • Posts: 2,329
Re: Sony 24-105 f4 G vs. Sony 24-70 f2.8 GM... flickr bias

MattiD80 wrote:

I own both the Sony 24-70mm GM F2.8 and the Sigma 24-70mm DG DN Art F2.8. I will sell the GM when i have time (more on reason later), i'm actually considering a 24-105mm F4 if i see a cheap one used, so i can have a lens with OSS (good for video shooting i think but also fun to have an alternative. List why Sigma is best lens (reasons)

Sigma has by far the fewest chromatic aberration of the 3 lenses (24-105mm f4 the most, but not so much more then the gmaster), even when removed, you see soft edges on detailed surfaces like top of trees/buildings.

Bokeh: best on Sigma. Not a massive difference but it's there.

Colours: Sigma really surprised me. Their Nano porous coating so far really impressed me (also own sigma 14-24mm dg dn, wich has similar colours - lovely lens btw). Sony Gmaster is second, but i find them a bit to the dark/brown side compared to Sigma. Sigma more spread out colours without being to saturated. Also more contrast for sure.

Sharpness: Sigma wins especially at infinity for landscape. 24mm, GM 'should be sharper' (general consensus) but my copy aint good here, the corners shop quickly drop off (not decentering is equal everywhere). At 35mm Gmaster is prime sharp. Sigma is just a nodge behind (but still very good for zoom, better then any other i think). At 50mm Sigma gets the lead again and at 70mm the Gmaster is really really soft at far distance, at closer distance it's ok but not amazing. At close distance i think Sigma looses or equals the Gmaster but the difference is neglible here (unlike the infinity difference).

Size: Sigma is better balanced, and 35 gram less weight.

Build quality: no preference, both are epic.

AF: Af may be slightly better on the Gmaster but i notice almost no difference, it's amazing how good Sigma did.

Also while a bit weird, 24mm, the Sigma can focus incredible close, a nice extra. After having used the nikon 24-70mm VR, and like you compared loads of images (and used the sharpest as a benchmark per lens).

Most zoom sacrafice a lot of corners sharpness and other stuff like astigmatism. The Sigma really stunned me by limiting these by a greater amount then standard zooms usually do, imo only the Nikon 24-70mm F2.8s trumps it (but cost more then double, and nikon also has slouches in their line up like 20mm F1.8).

Take a big look at Sigma imo, I bought it for 1089€ and it's a big steal at that price.

Matt, thank you for this comparison. It is amazingly helpful. For me, it was a toss up between the Sony 24-70GM and the Sigma 24-70Art, with a slight preference for the Sigma only because the latter is so much less expensive. They also seem to have the most character or pop of any of the zooms I have tested at similar ranges, and that means as much to me as anything else. Your comparison just reinforces my current thinking. Thanks again.

-Charles

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Corelli Veteran Member • Posts: 4,366
Re: Sony 24-105 f4 G vs. Sony 24-70 f2.8 GM... flickr bias

I don't think it's unexpected if you are comparing photos on flickr.

The 24-105 F4 is more of an all-rounder lens that will appeal to more people due to its greater range. You will therefore see many more "average" photos.

The 24-70 GM is a professional lens with a professional price. It stands to reason that photos taken with it and posted to flickr will have been taken by more skilled photographers.

You really need to do a side by side comparison to reach a solid conclusion.

Personally, I love my 24-105 F4, but I have a wide variety of excellent primes when the situation is warranted.

Cheers

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"It is perfectly possible to ignore reality. It is not possible to ignore the consequences of ignoring reality" Ayn Rand
"People who don't accept science should stop using it." GM
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OP charley5 Senior Member • Posts: 2,329
Re: Sony 24-105 f4 G vs. Sony 24-70 f2.8 GM... flickr bias

Corelli wrote:

I don't think it's unexpected if you are comparing photos on flickr.

The 24-105 F4 is more of an all-rounder lens that will appeal to more people due to its greater range. You will therefore see many more "average" photos.

The 24-70 GM is a professional lens with a professional price. It stands to reason that photos taken with it and posted to flickr will have been taken by more skilled photographers.

You really need to do a side by side comparison to reach a solid conclusion.

Personally, I love my 24-105 F4, but I have a wide variety of excellent primes when the situation is warranted.

Cheers

Yes, exactly what I thought. However, these two lenses do have a different "look" that is independent of the skills of the photographer. I think the 24-70 seems to have more pop. But that is just my opinion.

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Corelli Veteran Member • Posts: 4,366
Re: Sony 24-105 f4 G vs. Sony 24-70 f2.8 GM... flickr bias

The "pop" that people often speak of is something that can be relatively easily recreated in Lightroom. It's mostly a matter of increasing micro-contrast and saturation.

Cheers

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OP charley5 Senior Member • Posts: 2,329
Re: Sony 24-105 f4 G vs. Sony 24-70 f2.8 GM... flickr bias

Corelli wrote:

The "pop" that people often speak of is something that can be relatively easily recreated in Lightroom. It's mostly a matter of increasing micro-contrast and saturation.

Cheers

Does LR have a specific feature that increases micro-contrast?

-Charles

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Corelli Veteran Member • Posts: 4,366
Re: Sony 24-105 f4 G vs. Sony 24-70 f2.8 GM... flickr bias

I think it is "Texture".

Topaz Studio 2 has a "Precision Contrast" function which allows very precise control over contrast. It also has "AI Clear" which does a wonderful job of providing sharpness and pop without overdoing it.

Cheers

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Scott Alan Contributing Member • Posts: 518
Re: My ratings of six lenses' IQ after doing research...

charley5 wrote:

This research is obviously unscientific. It is meant only to help me choose a mostly landscape lens out of the following six alternatives. These ratings are for image quality only. The ratings were formulated after looking at 25-30 landscape shots on flickr for each lens, usually at 100% view. The ratings are out of 5 points, and a 2.5 would be an average rating, meaning it was just satisfactory.

Sony 24-70 2.8 GM ..... (4.5/5.0)

Sigma 24-70 2.8 Art .... (4.0/5.0)

Sony 24-105 4 G........... (3.5/5.0)

Sony 24-240 3.5/6.3 .... (3.0/5.0)

Tamron 24-70 2.8 ......... (2.5/5.0)

Tamron 28-200 2.8/5.6 ..(2.0/5.0)

If someone has compared more than one of these lenses please let me know what your findings have been relative to these ratings. I would also love to hear why you disagree with these ratings. In fact, if you want to re-order, please do (based on IQ). I might revisit my conclusions. I hope I haven't insulted anyone who owns these last couple of lenses.

-Charles

Lenses have character and you should purchase one that appeals to you.

I experiences this when I took a picture of a rainbow with my 24-105mm G.  I just did not like the result as the colors were just Muted or not well defined. So I put on my 20mm F1.8 Sony and even though I had to crop the difference was dramatic in that particular case.  Thing like CA, contrast, etc. make a difference.

So I think you have your ranking and should go with it.

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OP charley5 Senior Member • Posts: 2,329
Re: Sony 24-105 f4 G vs. Sony 24-70 f2.8 GM... flickr bias

Corelli wrote:

I think it is "Texture".

Topaz Studio 2 has a "Precision Contrast" function which allows very precise control over contrast. It also has "AI Clear" which does a wonderful job of providing sharpness and pop without overdoing it.

Cheers

Nice, I'll look into that. Thanks.

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OP charley5 Senior Member • Posts: 2,329
Re: My ratings of six lenses' IQ after doing research...

Scott Alan wrote:

charley5 wrote:

This research is obviously unscientific. It is meant only to help me choose a mostly landscape lens out of the following six alternatives. These ratings are for image quality only. The ratings were formulated after looking at 25-30 landscape shots on flickr for each lens, usually at 100% view. The ratings are out of 5 points, and a 2.5 would be an average rating, meaning it was just satisfactory.

Sony 24-70 2.8 GM ..... (4.5/5.0)

Sigma 24-70 2.8 Art .... (4.0/5.0)

Sony 24-105 4 G........... (3.5/5.0)

Sony 24-240 3.5/6.3 .... (3.0/5.0)

Tamron 24-70 2.8 ......... (2.5/5.0)

Tamron 28-200 2.8/5.6 ..(2.0/5.0)

If someone has compared more than one of these lenses please let me know what your findings have been relative to these ratings. I would also love to hear why you disagree with these ratings. In fact, if you want to re-order, please do (based on IQ). I might revisit my conclusions. I hope I haven't insulted anyone who owns these last couple of lenses.

-Charles

Lenses have character and you should purchase one that appeals to you.

I experiences this when I took a picture of a rainbow with my 24-105mm G. I just did not like the result as the colors were just Muted or not well defined. So I put on my 20mm F1.8 Sony and even though I had to crop the difference was dramatic in that particular case. Thing like CA, contrast, etc. make a difference.

So I think you have your ranking and should go with it.

Thanks for the encouragement Scott. There are people who completely deny that lenses have different looks. They find it too subjective a factor. I take portraits with old cine lenses and find them spectacular. Go figure.

-Charles

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