Super-telephotos for the R5

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
Tazz93
Tazz93 Senior Member • Posts: 2,632
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

RDM5546 wrote:

Tazz93 wrote:

As someone who went from the 400 DO to the 500L II, the focal length bump is very welcome. I didn't expect to care at all because I never felt under-gunned with a 400mm, but it was immense for a 100mm difference and I could go back. Any 400mm for me now has to be supplementary, which effectively takes the DO out of the picture for me.

Personally, I'd say hold out with your 100-500 and see what's on offer when the RF's are announced. You'll either get a discount on a EF lens or a new RF mount lens with great a new functionality. That said, if you do run into a killer deal on a 500L II, know that it will be difficult for Canon to make a meaningful improvement. They may shave 2lbs off, but that has come with a penalty on the two new super teles. Neither is as good with TCs as the version II's.

Thank you for sharing this. I do like the enabling performance of the 400mmf2.8 but do use the 1.4X TC iii most time and sometimes the 2X TC iii. It is heavy though even without the TCs so I have to use a tripod or a monopod. I have never heard any thing but good about the III big whites. I will be on the look out for the use with the TCs. I doubt my older version will do more than 6 fps on the R5 and may have other limitations. Before I worry about that I have delivery of my preorder.

Also note, "not as good" isn't always terrible. The 400L III, is a little softer with both TC's, but really only noticeable on the 2x. And even then, its not old Nikon bad. But the 600L III gets a little worse yet on both TCs. Again not terrible, but definitely a step back from the II's. That said, I think the 600L II was Canon's best lens ever, so it was always going to be hard to best it while compromising the optical solution to lighten it. Some people prefer quality over convenience, others vice versa. You just have to decide what you're willing to sacrifice.

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Tambopata Regular Member • Posts: 110
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

RDM5546 wrote:

Tambopata wrote:

I just bought the 600 f4 mk2 in good condition to use with my future R5. I don't mind the extra weight vs the 500 mk2.

Do you hand hold shoot with the 600mmf4L IS II? I have seen some do it but I can really not get it done. I am too old. I definitely am ever worse with my 400mmf2.8L IS original model at 12 lbs. Then newer model III are much lighter and maybe the RF400mm will be lighter yet.

It's possible, but only for a very short time. This heavy lens is best served with a tripod, which I still don't have.

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 2,222
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

Tazz93 wrote:

RDM5546 wrote:

Tazz93 wrote:

As someone who went from the 400 DO to the 500L II, the focal length bump is very welcome. I didn't expect to care at all because I never felt under-gunned with a 400mm, but it was immense for a 100mm difference and I could go back. Any 400mm for me now has to be supplementary, which effectively takes the DO out of the picture for me.

Personally, I'd say hold out with your 100-500 and see what's on offer when the RF's are announced. You'll either get a discount on a EF lens or a new RF mount lens with great a new functionality. That said, if you do run into a killer deal on a 500L II, know that it will be difficult for Canon to make a meaningful improvement. They may shave 2lbs off, but that has come with a penalty on the two new super teles. Neither is as good with TCs as the version II's.

Thank you for sharing this. I do like the enabling performance of the 400mmf2.8 but do use the 1.4X TC iii most time and sometimes the 2X TC iii. It is heavy though even without the TCs so I have to use a tripod or a monopod. I have never heard any thing but good about the III big whites. I will be on the look out for the use with the TCs. I doubt my older version will do more than 6 fps on the R5 and may have other limitations. Before I worry about that I have delivery of my preorder.

Also note, "not as good" isn't always terrible. The 400L III, is a little softer with both TC's, but really only noticeable on the 2x. And even then, its not old Nikon bad. But the 600L III gets a little worse yet on both TCs. Again not terrible, but definitely a step back from the II's. That said, I think the 600L II was Canon's best lens ever, so it was always going to be hard to best it while compromising the optical solution to lighten it. Some people prefer quality over convenience, others vice versa. You just have to decide what you're willing to sacrifice.

Tazz93

I really appreciate what both you and others have been sharing about the new  EF400f2.8L III being not as good.   I do not have to upgrade then unless RF400f2.8 blows in out the park which is unlikely. My 400f2.8L I is incredibly sharped despite the patina and wear of time on the paint job.  The really works even with the 2X.   It is a few pounds heavier but not a big deal since I use a tripod or monopod without problems.  Quality is most important but I thought newer might actually better with more layers.  I rebought a bunch my short telephotos and Canon primes to II or III upgrade after they glowing reviews for awhile when I get a good price.   The EF 400f.8L is my biggest cost lens even though I bought it 10 years old and used.

The new RF lenses like the RF 70-200mm and smaller and lighter than my EF 70-200mmf2.8 I & III lenses (I have two for two shooters).  However I do not like the new RF lens even though is is smaller and lighter.    More plastic.  I like metal.  I like internal focus for solid and long term rugged.  My old EF lenses adapted I will keep.  They better for me with quicker end to end zooming with bettter control ring action.   Others obviously love this lens but I am sticking with the classics on this issue.   I did get the RF 15-35mm and 24-70mm with IS because I think they are slight better utility than my excellent EF 16-35mm III and EF 24-70 II that I still use on the 5DIV.  These RF upgrades have IS and the ultrawide 15-35mm has he very useful and important 15mm capability.  It may be only 1mm but is a lot when you are tight spaces.  The autofocus speeds using this RF trinity lenses seems a hair faster too.   With Covid I have not be able to real accurate comparions in demanding applications.  I think the speed is speedy and all the RF mount cameras work well with them.   So I am keeping all my EF L lenses and only buying selected RF lenses as the value of them for me becomes apparent.  There are more lenses in RF mount coming and I doubt I will buy very many of them. Time will tell

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an_also
an_also Contributing Member • Posts: 542
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

Bogibbes wrote:

an_also wrote:

You might also consider something like the 400 F4 DO II because it doesn’t seem like that lens will be released in a RF mount anytime soon or ever. If that happens to be the case a EF lens like that could hold its value better since there are no alternatives to it. (in my mind the 400 DO II is the best combination of reach, image quality and portability ever made in a tele lens)

I hadn't given it much though, I'll have to circle back on it; I think I would miss the extra reach of the 500, though.

If you liked the FOV of the 200 f2 + 1.4tc on your Fuji then the 400 DO II is pretty much the same focal length.

At the end of the day it’ll probably come down to what you want to shoot. I find the 400mm good for mammals. I don’t really shoot much birds.

you should also consider getting a good used copy of whichever lens you get. Lots of good deals to be had and you won’t have to worry too much about losing a lot of value if the ef prices drop.

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palombian Regular Member • Posts: 238
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

an_also wrote:

You might also consider something like the 400 F4 DO II because it doesn’t seem like that lens will be released in a RF mount anytime soon or ever. If that happens to be the case a EF lens like that could hold its value better since there are no alternatives to it. (in my mind the 400 DO II is the best combination of reach, image quality and portability ever made in a tele lens)

Original point of view !

I bought this lens 5 years ago for the weight reason and use it on the 7DII mostly with 1.4 III (560mm 5.6). IMO better IQ and AF than EF300 II with 2.0 III.

I am satisfied with the lens, quality is good for what I paid, but it is not popular.

The weight advantage nearly disappeared since the 400 2.8 III (but this lens is double price).

Will keep it on the R5. Should give me the same reach with the 2.0 III (or in crop mode with 1.4 III), but better AF and less noise.

Chances are on 800mm I will have more keepers and could crop a bit more.

PS: Nikon 500 5.6 PF has nearly the same reach and is much lighter, some day Canon will make such a lens in RF.

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Marximus
Marximus Forum Member • Posts: 87
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
1

The 500 II is a killer lens, and I think the most versatile of the Big Whites. I have one that I use with a 2x on my R6, and performance is excellent. If I was able to find an R5 somewhere, I'd use it in crop mode with the 1.4x. I found a good used copy on eBay for about $6500 and I have no regrets. It's been holding steady at about that price for a while (I bought mine in April of 2019).

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 2,222
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

Tambopata wrote:

RDM5546 wrote:

Tambopata wrote:

I just bought the 600 f4 mk2 in good condition to use with my future R5. I don't mind the extra weight vs the 500 mk2.

Do you hand hold shoot with the 600mmf4L IS II? I have seen some do it but I can really not get it done. I am too old. I definitely am ever worse with my 400mmf2.8L IS original model at 12 lbs. Then newer model III are much lighter and maybe the RF400mm will be lighter yet.

It's possible, but only for a very short time. This heavy lens is best served with a tripod, which I still don't have.

I have gimbal with my tripod to make the weight of my original model EF400f2.8L IS USM from 2005.

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OP Bogibbes Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2
2

I decided to go with the 500 f4 II and bought one from Lens Authority. It's scheduled to be delivered today! The condition of the glass was listed as "Exceptional".

I'm super stoked for it to arrive and give it a workout right away. I'm hoping to photograph some bull moose tomorrow morning with it. I'll post the results and my thoughts once I'm able to check it out!

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an_also
an_also Contributing Member • Posts: 542
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

Bogibbes wrote:

I decided to go with the 500 f4 II and bought one from Lens Authority. It's scheduled to be delivered today! The condition of the glass was listed as "Exceptional".

I'm super stoked for it to arrive and give it a workout right away. I'm hoping to photograph some bull moose tomorrow morning with it. I'll post the results and my thoughts once I'm able to check it out!

Awesome, congrats.

You wont regret it. TBH, I don't know if the RF version will be worth the markup it'll have price wise. The 500 II is such an incredible lens already.

Which part of the world are you shooting Bull Moose? We just the rut here in Ontario Canada. I always love seeing them in the Fall.

Great Instagram BTW! Just gave you a follow.

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Tazz93
Tazz93 Senior Member • Posts: 2,632
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

an_also wrote:

Bogibbes wrote:

I decided to go with the 500 f4 II and bought one from Lens Authority. It's scheduled to be delivered today! The condition of the glass was listed as "Exceptional".

I'm super stoked for it to arrive and give it a workout right away. I'm hoping to photograph some bull moose tomorrow morning with it. I'll post the results and my thoughts once I'm able to check it out!

Awesome, congrats.

You wont regret it. TBH, I don't know if the RF version will be worth the markup it'll have price wise. The 500 II is such an incredible lens already.

Which part of the world are you shooting Bull Moose? We just the rut here in Ontario Canada. I always love seeing them in the Fall.

Great Instagram BTW! Just gave you a follow.

Agreed, although I would have waited... I can't honestly say that I expect the RF lens to be significantly better. I think you are relatively safe, but you'll DEFINITELY love the lens if it is as advertised.

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dwfrommonterey Regular Member • Posts: 359
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

My questions is this; if I buy a used EF super tele now, do you see the the resale value tanking once Canon releases the newer RF versions?

Values don't tank until demand is saturated.

So when everyone who wants one has an EF 600/f4, then the price will tank.

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OP Bogibbes Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

So the lens came in and all signs are pointing to it being a keeper,  but I did have one question. For those with the R5 and the 500 II, or maybe even the 600 II, when the camera is set to "continuous AF" is the IS in the lens noticeably noisy and can you feel it being active through the body of the lens?

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Tazz93
Tazz93 Senior Member • Posts: 2,632
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2
1

Bogibbes wrote:

So the lens came in and all signs are pointing to it being a keeper, but I did have one question. For those with the R5 and the 500 II, or maybe even the 600 II, when the camera is set to "continuous AF" is the IS in the lens noticeably noisy and can you feel it being active through the body of the lens?

Unless you can't use both hands to operate the camera, I don't see a good reason to have the AF continuously running. I disabled that immediately. For some video modes, I can see a value, but honestly I don't see a value in stills. Its not noisy, but the AF just runs and runs. It like holding the AF button down eternally.

I also only use the IS when needed. Again turning it on, will basically run it anytime the viewfinder/LCD is live. IMO, using up valuable battery and more importantly, IS cycles and shortening the component life. The IS isn't loud, but it has a noticeable, whirling noise. Also, when removing the lens, be sure to turn IS off or wait for the whirling to stop. It will make a terrible noise if you remove the camera before the cycle is done. Even turning the camera off, will not immediately stop the IS. So I flip the IS switch or simply wait and listen for the IS to stop whirling after switching it off.

I'm finding the combo to be really good. Enjoy it.

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OP Bogibbes Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

In the manual it says under the Camera tab 7, in the menu, is the option to make IS continuous or shooting only, but I don't see this option given to me. Any suggestions?

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Tazz93
Tazz93 Senior Member • Posts: 2,632
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

Bogibbes wrote:

In the manual it says under the Camera tab 7, in the menu, is the option to make IS continuous or shooting only, but I don't see this option given to me. Any suggestions?

That refers to whether you want the IBIS/IS to work for that one shot or always. I choose "Always", and then control it with the IS switch on the lens. If the IS switch on the lens is ON, then the IBIS/IS is ON. If its is OFF, both IBIS/IS is OFF.

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OP Bogibbes Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

Tazz93 wrote:

Bogibbes wrote:

In the manual it says under the Camera tab 7, in the menu, is the option to make IS continuous or shooting only, but I don't see this option given to me. Any suggestions?

That refers to whether you want the IBIS/IS to work for that one shot or always. I choose "Always", and then control it with the IS switch on the lens. If the IS switch on the lens is ON, then the IBIS/IS is ON. If its is OFF, both IBIS/IS is OFF.

I mean that the option isn't even there for me.

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Tazz93
Tazz93 Senior Member • Posts: 2,632
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

Bogibbes wrote:

Tazz93 wrote:

Bogibbes wrote:

In the manual it says under the Camera tab 7, in the menu, is the option to make IS continuous or shooting only, but I don't see this option given to me. Any suggestions?

That refers to whether you want the IBIS/IS to work for that one shot or always. I choose "Always", and then control it with the IS switch on the lens. If the IS switch on the lens is ON, then the IBIS/IS is ON. If its is OFF, both IBIS/IS is OFF.

I mean that the option isn't even there for me.

Do you have the lens attached?

Also, per the manual that menu "isn't displayed when you are in FV, P, TV, AV, M or BULB when a IS equipped lens is attached". Which sounds odd but...I believe this is because the lens' switch is the override. So if you attach a non IS lens it will give the option to change the setting, but its not needed I guess because the lens switch will override it.

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OP Bogibbes Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2
1

Yeah, I attached my non-IS RF 50 and the option appeared in the menu. Guess the IS still be either ON or OFF, not in between.

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JMattH New Member • Posts: 7
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

We faced the same decision and bought an EF 400 f/2.8 IS USM (version 1).  Yes - it's heavy, but for "just" $3,200" for a lens still in Excellent condition, it's fine on a gimbal mount.  Mated to the new R5, we are getting some of the best bird and other wildlife pictures ever.  Frankly, with the $9,000 savings over the modern version iii, and an anticipated even more expensive RF version at some point, I think it was the value buy of the year.  Suddenly the Sigma 150-600 is no longer getting used.  The IQ is just soooooo superior with the 400 f/2.8, that there's no reason to even click the shutter with the Sigma any more.

RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 2,222
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

JMattH wrote:

We faced the same decision and bought an EF 400 f/2.8 IS USM (version 1). Yes - it's heavy, but for "just" $3,200" for a lens still in Excellent condition, it's fine on a gimbal mount. Mated to the new R5, we are getting some of the best bird and other wildlife pictures ever. Frankly, with the $9,000 savings over the modern version iii, and an anticipated even more expensive RF version at some point, I think it was the value buy of the year. Suddenly the Sigma 150-600 is no longer getting used. The IQ is just soooooo superior with the 400 f/2.8, that there's no reason to even click the shutter with the Sigma any more.

I went the same way with EF 400mmf2.8 IS USM I and it sweet lenses.  Mine was owned by a Wildlife photograher and the paint joint shows it was used a lot.   Despite the nicks and scuff the lens no serious sign of wear after 15 years.  It is certainly shop and the images it creates are are amazing on the EOS R.  I have not received the R5 yet and assume it will be even better.  I was leery spending much on heavily used lens but it was worth every nickle I paid.  The images looks the same as brand new lens.  The Gimbal on the tripod is a very important addition though.   With it handling is a breeze.  I use it with both 1.4X iii and 2X iii TCs.

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