Super-telephotos for the R5

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
Bogibbes Regular Member • Posts: 206
Super-telephotos for the R5

Hi guys,

First off, I'm a new Canon user, having got the R5 about a month ago. I'm coming from the Fuji ecosystem.

I originally bought into Fuji for travel photography, but over the years became predominantly interested in wildlife photography. I had been using their 200mm f2 lens with the 1.4x TC as my primary wildlife lens. At an equivalent 400mm f/2.8 I found it adequate for most of my photography. I left Fuji because I had always been a little disappointed in their AF performance, which compared now to the R5, is like comparing a bottle rocket to the SpaceX rockets.

Now that I'm over at Canon, I'm currently using the RF 100-500 lens, which is very nice, but I really miss having that fast prime experience and performance. I would very much like to get a Canon super tele in my kit.

TLDR

My questions is this; if I buy a used EF super tele now, do you see the the resale value tanking once Canon releases the newer RF versions? I'd really like to get back to the supertele experience as soon as possible and as it could still be a few years before the RF's are released I'm thinking about looking for a used 500mm mk II to hold me over until then. Would love to hear your thoughts! Thanks in advance!

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KiloHotelphoto Contributing Member • Posts: 527
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
2

If lots of people all try to sell their EF super telephotos when RF versions come out then yes prices will come down fast.

I don’t plan on selling mine because it works just fine on the R5.

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PicPocket Veteran Member • Posts: 4,282
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
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If everything goes the way it has so far, the new RF lenses would end up being launched at a substantially higher price than the EF counterparts, and won't be easily available for months

I imagine the new big ones will come at today's R&D costs as opposed to a decade or more old design. They will undoubtedly be better but at a cost.

And, we don't know when they will come and in what order. I don't expect all EF equivalents to drop at the same time

So, if you ask me... If you want a 500, and can get a good deal on one... Go for it. You can enjoy it now, and revisit when something eventually shows up

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Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 22,279
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

KiloHotelphoto wrote:

If lots of people all try to sell their EF super telephotos when RF versions come out then yes prices will come down fast.

I sold all of my EF lenses for that reason.

I don’t plan on selling mine because it works just fine on the R5.

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Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 14,325
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
1

Bogibbes wrote:

Hi guys,

First off, I'm a new Canon user, having got the R5 about a month ago. I'm coming from the Fuji ecosystem.

I originally bought into Fuji for travel photography, but over the years became predominantly interested in wildlife photography. I had been using their 200mm f2 lens with the 1.4x TC as my primary wildlife lens. At an equivalent 400mm f/2.8 I found it adequate for most of my photography.

It's not 400 mm f/2.8 equivalent, it's 420 mm f/4.2, factoring in both the 1.5x crop factor and the 1.4x TC. The difference will be important if you're comparing with a potential full frame lens for the R5. So an EF 500 mm f/4 gives you 19% more reach and a very small increase in aperture - nice to have, but not night and day.

But you said you found the Fuji lens adequate for most of your photography, so the 500 would certainly do the job too. It also performs superbly with the EF 1.4x III to give you a very nice 700 mm f/5.6.

I left Fuji because I had always been a little disappointed in their AF performance, which compared now to the R5, is like comparing a bottle rocket to the SpaceX rockets.

Now that I'm over at Canon, I'm currently using the RF 100-500 lens, which is very nice, but I really miss having that fast prime experience and performance. I would very much like to get a Canon super tele in my kit.

The extra reach of the big prime with a 1.4x can be irreplaceable, but the featherweight combination of the R5 and 100-500 is superb. I have a 600, but I will often use the 100-500.

TLDR

My questions is this; if I buy a used EF super tele now, do you see the the resale value tanking once Canon releases the newer RF versions? I'd really like to get back to the supertele experience as soon as possible and as it could still be a few years before the RF's are released I'm thinking about looking for a used 500mm mk II to hold me over until then. Would love to hear your thoughts! Thanks in advance!

The RF big whites will come in at very high prices, and the EF lenses perform brilliantly on the RF mount so I'm pretty sure there will still be a good level of demand for them. Prices may drop a little I guess, but I don't see them tanking.

OP Bogibbes Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
2

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Bogibbes wrote:

Hi guys,

First off, I'm a new Canon user, having got the R5 about a month ago. I'm coming from the Fuji ecosystem.

I originally bought into Fuji for travel photography, but over the years became predominantly interested in wildlife photography. I had been using their 200mm f2 lens with the 1.4x TC as my primary wildlife lens. At an equivalent 400mm f/2.8 I found it adequate for most of my photography.

It's not 400 mm f/2.8 equivalent, it's 420 mm f/4.2, factoring in both the 1.5x crop factor and the 1.4x TC. The difference will be important if you're comparing with a potential full frame lens for the R5. So an EF 500 mm f/4 gives you 19% more reach and a very small increase in aperture - nice to have, but not night and day.

But you said you found the Fuji lens adequate for most of your photography, so the 500 would certainly do the job too. It also performs superbly with the EF 1.4x III to give you a very nice 700 mm f/5.6.

I left Fuji because I had always been a little disappointed in their AF performance, which compared now to the R5, is like comparing a bottle rocket to the SpaceX rockets.

Now that I'm over at Canon, I'm currently using the RF 100-500 lens, which is very nice, but I really miss having that fast prime experience and performance. I would very much like to get a Canon super tele in my kit.

The extra reach of the big prime with a 1.4x can be irreplaceable, but the featherweight combination of the R5 and 100-500 is superb. I have a 600, but I will often use the 100-500.

Well to be honest, I'm not comparing any superteles to the Fuji prime that I had, I'm mostly comparing the RF 100-500 to the Fuji. In terms of light gathering the Fuji was f2.8. I don't really care for the DOF equivalency, it is what it is on the system that you're using. In terms of light gathering, the RF 100-500 is SLOW compared to what I was used to. At 400-500mm where I usually use the 100-500, is where I would really appreciate the faster superteles.

I expect the 500 f4 to be a night and day difference compared to the 100-500 mm at 500mm f7.1

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Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 14,325
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
1

Bogibbes wrote:

Well to be honest, I'm not comparing any superteles to the Fuji prime that I had, I'm mostly comparing the RF 100-500 to the Fuji. In terms of light gathering the Fuji was f2.8. I don't really care for the DOF equivalency, it is what it is on the system that you're using.

Absolutely correct, it is what it is. Equivalence is only useful when you want to compare different systems with different sensor sizes...

You can't legitimately say that you "don't really care for DoF equivalence" - the two values work as a pair and if you try to cherry pick the one which happens to suit your argument at the time you will simply deceive yourself. (Which is no skin off my nose.)

In terms of light gathering, the RF 100-500 is SLOW compared to what I was used to. At 400-500mm where I usually use the 100-500, is where I would really appreciate the faster superteles.

I expect the 500 f4 to be a night and day difference compared to the 100-500 mm at 500mm f7.1

Indeed it will. You are now comparing like with like and the difference is 1 2/3 stops, a huge difference by any measure. But will it get you back to where you were with the Fuji, or maybe even better than that? I provided actual numbers which you can use, or ignore if you don't care for them, in my previous post.

OP Bogibbes Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
1

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Bogibbes wrote:

Well to be honest, I'm not comparing any superteles to the Fuji prime that I had, I'm mostly comparing the RF 100-500 to the Fuji. In terms of light gathering the Fuji was f2.8. I don't really care for the DOF equivalency, it is what it is on the system that you're using.

Absolutely correct, it is what it is. Equivalence is only useful when you want to compare different systems with different sensor sizes...

You can't legitimately say that you "don't really care for DoF equivalence" - the two values work as a pair and if you try to cherry pick the one which happens to suit your argument at the time you will simply deceive yourself. (Which is no skin off my nose.)

In terms of light gathering, the RF 100-500 is SLOW compared to what I was used to. At 400-500mm where I usually use the 100-500, is where I would really appreciate the faster superteles.

I expect the 500 f4 to be a night and day difference compared to the 100-500 mm at 500mm f7.1

Indeed it will. You are now comparing like with like and the difference is 1 2/3 stops, a huge difference by any measure. But will it get you back to where you were with the Fuji, or maybe even better than that? I provided actual numbers which you can use, or ignore if you don't care for them, in my previous post.

I appreciate your input, thank you.

I guess I should clarify where I'm coming from just a bit. The intent of the post had nothing to do with finding a comparable lens. I actually never even asked the question, merely mentioned what I had been using from Fuji as a reference point. I am used to having a fast prime and I want to get back to using a fast prime. Personally, I'm debating between the 400 2.8 and the 500 & 600 f/4's, but again, I wasn't looking for any direction as to which of those to get, or which would be most similar to the Fuji lens.

I was only asking about the viability and value proposition of going with an EF lens now vs waiting on an RF mount later.

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Tazz93
Tazz93 Senior Member • Posts: 2,740
That's dependent on performance

To answer the question "Do you think its value will tank...", its very possible. Possibly more than any Canon lenses have ever dropped before. But... that is based on them being significantly better than the current version II lenses. If we get similar performance with just a small weight loss, I think their value will hold quite well. Drop, yes by a little, but hold relatively well.

For example, if the 600L III performance is what we have to expect, I'll keep my 500L II and suspect many more will do the same. This would be a case where there are pluses and minuses compared to the previous generation and a big price tag to boot. So I'd assume adoption will be more tepid, allowing for better values on older lenses.

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Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 14,325
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
1

Bogibbes wrote:

I guess I should clarify where I'm coming from just a bit. The intent of the post had nothing to do with finding a comparable lens. I actually never even asked the question, merely mentioned what I had been using from Fuji as a reference point.

And I responded using the Fuji as a reference point. Seems we were on the same page all along ;-).

Good luck with your decision.

robgendreau Veteran Member • Posts: 8,108
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

It depends on what you mean by "tank," but I doubt you'll see lenses go down in value that much in response to the release of RF lenses. Glass holds its value quite well, especially in a system where older lenses can be adapted or used on newer bodies. And there are still an awful lot of DSLR users out there.

But if you really want to check, just compare prices of say EF lenses that are comparable to RF lenses already released. But the thing is that some of the RF lenses are just better lenses, and some of their initial cost points show this. Look at the 50mm 1.2s for example. Sort of apples and oranges, and I'd just guess that this is Canon spreading out lenses from baby bear 50mm 1.8s to EF 50mm 1.2 to papa bear (or would it be mama, to be less sexist?) RF 50mm.

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dgumshu
dgumshu Veteran Member • Posts: 4,275
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

Bogibbes wrote:

Hi guys,

First off, I'm a new Canon user, having got the R5 about a month ago. I'm coming from the Fuji ecosystem.

I originally bought into Fuji for travel photography, but over the years became predominantly interested in wildlife photography. I had been using their 200mm f2 lens with the 1.4x TC as my primary wildlife lens. At an equivalent 400mm f/2.8 I found it adequate for most of my photography. I left Fuji because I had always been a little disappointed in their AF performance, which compared now to the R5, is like comparing a bottle rocket to the SpaceX rockets.

Now that I'm over at Canon, I'm currently using the RF 100-500 lens, which is very nice, but I really miss having that fast prime experience and performance. I would very much like to get a Canon super tele in my kit.

TLDR

My questions is this; if I buy a used EF super tele now, do you see the the resale value tanking once Canon releases the newer RF versions? I'd really like to get back to the supertele experience as soon as possible and as it could still be a few years before the RF's are released I'm thinking about looking for a used 500mm mk II to hold me over until then. Would love to hear your thoughts! Thanks in advance!

Everything in the camera world tanks after a while, but I don’t think the price drops will be dramatic after the RF releases, as the RF Teles will be costly.  
The R5 works well with the EF Telephotos, so no worries there.  The 500 F4 ll is the best Telephoto lens I ever owned and regret selling it for the 600 ll.  The 600 ll is an excellent lens, but the size and weight has its drawbacks.  I used the 500 ll more.  The 500 ll is a great choice and you should be able to find one on the Fred Miranda site.  There were a lot for sale a few months ago, but things have thinned out and I haven’t seen too many advertised.  I think most people realized they would work just fine with the R5 and decided not to sell.  I kept my 400 DO ll and 600 F4 ll.  Now waiting on the 500 RF.

I have the Sigma 500 F4 which is great for DSLR’s, but very slow to focus on the R5... avoid this one.

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 2,330
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

I expect to see $15K+ RF big whites and my 15 year old EF 400MMf2.8L IS USM IS USM that is in well used condition is worth around $3,000 will not get a lot cheaper. However the newest model EF 400MMf2.8L IS USM IS III USM (MSRP $11,999)  that is selling in good condition used EF 400MMf2.8L IS USM IS III USM for $7-9K may drop a little.  However, I do expect the drops to be crazy large because they still work and are fine lenses selling for a fortune even with a minor drop.

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Tambopata Regular Member • Posts: 113
Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

I just bought the 600 f4 mk2 in good condition to use with my future R5. I don't mind the extra weight vs the 500 mk2.

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an_also
an_also Contributing Member • Posts: 561
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
2

You might also consider something like the 400 F4 DO II because it doesn’t seem like that lens will be released in a RF mount anytime soon or ever. If that happens to be the case a EF lens like that could hold its value better since there are no alternatives to it. (in my mind the 400 DO II is the best combination of reach, image quality and portability ever made in a tele lens)

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OP Bogibbes Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

an_also wrote:

You might also consider something like the 400 F4 DO II because it doesn’t seem like that lens will be released in a RF mount anytime soon or ever. If that happens to be the case a EF lens like that could hold its value better since there are no alternatives to it. (in my mind the 400 DO II is the best combination of reach, image quality and portability ever made in a tele lens)

I hadn't given it much though, I'll have to circle back on it; I think I would miss the extra reach of the 500, though.

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 2,330
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5 - 600 f4 mk2

Tambopata wrote:

I just bought the 600 f4 mk2 in good condition to use with my future R5. I don't mind the extra weight vs the 500 mk2.

Do you hand hold shoot with the 600mmf4L IS II? I have seen some do it but I can really not get it done. I am too old. I definitely am ever worse with my 400mmf2.8L IS original model at 12 lbs.  Then newer model III are much lighter and maybe the RF400mm will be lighter yet.

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Tazz93
Tazz93 Senior Member • Posts: 2,740
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5
1

Bogibbes wrote:

an_also wrote:

You might also consider something like the 400 F4 DO II because it doesn’t seem like that lens will be released in a RF mount anytime soon or ever. If that happens to be the case a EF lens like that could hold its value better since there are no alternatives to it. (in my mind the 400 DO II is the best combination of reach, image quality and portability ever made in a tele lens)

I hadn't given it much though, I'll have to circle back on it; I think I would miss the extra reach of the 500, though.

As someone who went from the 400 DO to the 500L II, the focal length bump is very welcome. I didn't expect to care at all because I never felt under-gunned with a 400mm, but it was immense for a 100mm difference and I could go back. Any 400mm for me now has to be supplementary, which effectively takes the DO out of the picture for me.

Personally, I'd say hold out with your 100-500 and see what's on offer when the RF's are announced. You'll either get a discount on a EF lens or a new RF mount lens with great a new functionality. That said, if you do run into a killer deal on a 500L II, know that it will be difficult for Canon to make a meaningful improvement. They may shave 2lbs off, but that has come with a penalty on the two new super teles. Neither is as good with TCs as the version II's.

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gavin
gavin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,954
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

Buy 2nd hand EF and use adapter or wait for RF is a good question. The EF lenses are still great and will be a cheaper solution for now. I would look for 2nd hand one if you go this route. I am sure the RF will be better/smaller but can you wait? I tend to buy new equipment driven by event. Now I am waiting for travel to resume so I can go on a safari + buy R5

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 2,330
Re: Super-telephotos for the R5

Tazz93 wrote:

As someone who went from the 400 DO to the 500L II, the focal length bump is very welcome. I didn't expect to care at all because I never felt under-gunned with a 400mm, but it was immense for a 100mm difference and I could go back. Any 400mm for me now has to be supplementary, which effectively takes the DO out of the picture for me.

Personally, I'd say hold out with your 100-500 and see what's on offer when the RF's are announced. You'll either get a discount on a EF lens or a new RF mount lens with great a new functionality. That said, if you do run into a killer deal on a 500L II, know that it will be difficult for Canon to make a meaningful improvement. They may shave 2lbs off, but that has come with a penalty on the two new super teles. Neither is as good with TCs as the version II's.

Thank you for sharing this.  I do like the enabling performance of the 400mmf2.8 but do use the 1.4X TC iii most time and sometimes the 2X TC iii.  It is heavy though even without the TCs so I have to use a tripod or a monopod.   I have never heard any thing but good about the III big whites.  I will be on the look out for the use with the TCs. I doubt my older version will do more than 6 fps on the R5 and may have other limitations.   Before I worry about that I have delivery of my preorder.

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