Sony banding issues

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
karishma08 Junior Member • Posts: 30
Sony banding issues

Hi all,

I got my a7rIV last week. And did a small portrait session thus weekend.

prtty amazing. The sharpness and quality. And the eye AF works great.

I am always reading and trying to learn about the camera.

so I read about bending issues. Is it only happening when using silent shutter? And at certain shutter speeds?

i do shoot weddings as a second shooter and events and was thinking of getting the a7III next year if I do get to shoot weddings. It would be my main camera for weddings and events and my A7rIV would be my back up.

i am new to mirrorless cameras and new to Sony.

so how to avoid b no banding?

thanks

karish

Sony a7
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Despiser Regular Member • Posts: 250
Re: Sony banding issues
1

No doubt you’ll receive more informed opinions, but I can share having only experienced banding once in the month I’ve had an A7iii. That was during a lightening storm and yes, apparently the electronic shutter is to blame. So it’s a good idea to have silent shooting toggle assigned in your function menu

 Despiser's gear list:Despiser's gear list
Sony a7 III Sony FE 50mm F1.8 Tamron 28-200mm F2.8-5.6
pollup Contributing Member • Posts: 573
Re: Sony banding issues
1

Hi, first thing to note is that this issue will happen with artificial lights. So, if you shoot with natural light with the electronic shutter, you won't have banding issues at all, but you could get image distortion, which is another issue.

so I read about bending issues. Is it only happening when using silent shutter?

It can happen with the mechanical shutter, but very rarely, so the answer is "mostly yes". This is a problem with all cameras except the ones with a global shutter.

There's also the flickering issue, which some people think is banding, but you can use the anti flicker setting, with mechanical shutter.

And at certain shutter speeds?

And at fast enough shutter speeds too. If you take a shot at 1/30s, you shouldn't have any banding, and 1/60s might be good too. The A7R4 sensor scanning speed is around 1/30s, so anything faster than that can potentially create banding.

In general, it's a good idea to have your shutter speed match the artificial light frequency (or multiples of it), well this works really well with the A9, but the A9 has a 1/160s readout speed, so 1/60 and 1/125 would be good options. The problem is that the R4 has a slower readout speed, as I mentioned above, so 1/60 and 1/120 might not help so much, but still better than other values.

Note: this is assuming the light source has a frequency of 60 or 120Hz. It could be 50/100 in other regions.

Note2: you might also not get any banding at all even with artificial lights and a high shutter speed, but the only way to know is to do test shots. This involves luck though. The recommendations I gave above, for example the 1/30s or slower shutter speed, will almost guarantee no banding at all.

i do shoot weddings as a second shooter and events and was thinking of getting the a7III next year if I do get to shoot weddings. It would be my main camera for weddings and events and my A7rIV would be my back up.

i am new to mirrorless cameras and new to Sony.

so how to avoid b no banding?

thanks

karish

 pollup's gear list:pollup's gear list
Sony a9 Sony FE 85mm F1.8 Sony FE 35mm F1.8 Sony E 70-350mm F4.5-6.3 G OSS Canon EOS 550D +6 more
OP karishma08 Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Sony banding issues

So this would happen with silent shutter and not if I’m using mechanical shutter right?

would it happen if I’m using on camera or off camera flash? And at shutter speed between 1/60th to 1/200th?

Trollmannx Veteran Member • Posts: 7,083
Re: Sony banding issues
1

karishma08 wrote:

So this would happen with silent shutter and not if I’m using mechanical shutter right?

would it happen if I’m using on camera or off camera flash? And at shutter speed between 1/60th to 1/200th?

Take some test images and see for yourself.

Nothing beat a lovely learning process! 

OP karishma08 Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Sony banding issues

Yes I’m planning on doing just that . 
since I switched from canon to Sony I don’t have the triggers yet to try with flash. But was just doing some research about it. 
I guess I could try with the lights at home and see .

A-Marc
A-Marc Contributing Member • Posts: 690
Re: Sony banding issues
2

karishma08 wrote:

So this would happen with silent shutter and not if I’m using mechanical shutter right?

would it happen if I’m using on camera or off camera flash? And at shutter speed between 1/60th to 1/200th?

dont use silent shutter on default. just when you need it.

 A-Marc's gear list:A-Marc's gear list
Sony a7R II Sony a7R IV Voigtlander 15mm F4.5 Super Wide Heliar Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 25mm F2 +3 more
nbeiii Regular Member • Posts: 132
Re: Sony banding issues

I've been shooting A9 and A9ii since they started shipping. Everyone got hung up on banding at the outset.

I can only speak from my experience - tens of thousands of images All using electronic shutter, many in low light (sports, concerts).

I had banding issues with images from ONE concert - lighting was awful (overhead sodium vapor, Led spot-lighting, some incandescent floods, and a handful of fixtures I didn't recognize.

I only banding on images taken during a particular combination of light colors, leading me to believe that the issue had to do with a particular lighting device. Others have drawn the same conclusion, but with a better understanding and explanation of the specific lighting tech causing the problem.

 nbeiii's gear list:nbeiii's gear list
Canon EOS 40D Sony a9 Sony a9 II Canon EF 28-135mm F3.5-5.6 IS USM Sony 70-200mm F2.8 G +6 more
A-Marc
A-Marc Contributing Member • Posts: 690
Re: Sony banding issues

nbeiii wrote:

I've been shooting A9 and A9ii since they started shipping. Everyone got hung up on banding at the outset.

I can only speak from my experience - tens of thousands of images All using electronic shutter, many in low light (sports, concerts).

I had banding issues with images from ONE concert - lighting was awful (overhead sodium vapor, Led spot-lighting, some incandescent floods, and a handful of fixtures I didn't recognize.

I only banding on images taken during a particular combination of light colors, leading me to believe that the issue had to do with a particular lighting device. Others have drawn the same conclusion, but with a better understanding and explanation of the specific lighting tech causing the problem.

the R4 sensor isnt the same tech as on the A9 models. so silent shooting on the R4 isnt the same as on the A9.

 A-Marc's gear list:A-Marc's gear list
Sony a7R II Sony a7R IV Voigtlander 15mm F4.5 Super Wide Heliar Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 25mm F2 +3 more
Magnar W
Magnar W Veteran Member • Posts: 5,254
Re: Sony banding issues

Despiser wrote:

No doubt you’ll receive more informed opinions, but I can share having only experienced banding once in the month I’ve had an A7iii. That was during a lightening storm and yes, apparently the electronic shutter is to blame. So it’s a good idea to have silent shooting toggle assigned in your function menu

How can the electronic shutter cause banding during a lighthening storm?

 Magnar W's gear list:Magnar W's gear list
Sony a7 Sony a7R III Sony FE 90mm F2.8 macro Zeiss Loxia 21mm F2.8 Zeiss Loxia 35 +2 more
Magnar W
Magnar W Veteran Member • Posts: 5,254
Re: Sony banding issues
1

nbeiii wrote:

I had banding issues with images from ONE concert - lighting was awful (overhead sodium vapor, Led spot-lighting, some incandescent floods, and a handful of fixtures I didn't recognize.

The A9 differ noticeable from the lower series cameras, since the A9 has way faster readout with the electronic shutter. So using this camera as an example for the 7 series electronic shutter is not a good idea.

I only banding on images taken during a particular combination of light colors, leading me to believe that the issue had to do with a particular lighting device. Others have drawn the same conclusion, but with a better understanding and explanation of the specific lighting tech causing the problem.

Or the readout speed from the A9 electronic shutter ...

 Magnar W's gear list:Magnar W's gear list
Sony a7 Sony a7R III Sony FE 90mm F2.8 macro Zeiss Loxia 21mm F2.8 Zeiss Loxia 35 +2 more
olstrup Veteran Member • Posts: 3,960
Re: Sony banding issues

nbeiii wrote:

I've been shooting A9 and A9ii since they started shipping. Everyone got hung up on banding at the outset.

I can only speak from my experience - tens of thousands of images All using electronic shutter, many in low light (sports, concerts).

I had banding issues with images from ONE concert - lighting was awful (overhead sodium vapor, Led spot-lighting, some incandescent floods, and a handful of fixtures I didn't recognize.

I only banding on images taken during a particular combination of light colors, leading me to believe that the issue had to do with a particular lighting device. Others have drawn the same conclusion, but with a better understanding and explanation of the specific lighting tech causing the problem.

Agree. The basic problem is the light source which may flicker both with intensity and color during the 50/60Hz cycle. Sometimes the flickering rate is faster than 50/sec. This is not a specific digital camera problem. It was a well known issue already in the film days. Whether this flickering is seen on the picture depends on the shutter speed (mechanical shutter) or sensor readout speed (electronic shutter). The A7 series cameras have a slow readout speed, while the A9 seires have a faster readout. The A9 tolerates flickering light better with electronic shutter than the A7 series, By using mechanical shutter and choosing a shutter speed below the cycle speed (1/50 sec and slower) the flickering can be prevented in the pictures. Some faster shutter speeds may also be used provided they are in good sync with the flickering rate. Finally, there are the anti flicker option in the camera which can be set via the menu.

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"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." (Henri Cartier-Bresson)

Despiser Regular Member • Posts: 250
Re: Sony banding issues

Magnar W wrote:

Despiser wrote:

No doubt you’ll receive more informed opinions, but I can share having only experienced banding once in the month I’ve had an A7iii. That was during a lightening storm and yes, apparently the electronic shutter is to blame. So it’s a good idea to have silent shooting toggle assigned in your function menu

How can the electronic shutter cause banding during a lighthening storm?

Dunno. It just does. I found the problem with a quick google. All shots with only mechanical shutter turned out good.

 Despiser's gear list:Despiser's gear list
Sony a7 III Sony FE 50mm F1.8 Tamron 28-200mm F2.8-5.6
Thor Egil Forum Member • Posts: 66
Re: Sony banding issues

nbeiii wrote:

I've been shooting A9 and A9ii since they started shipping. Everyone got hung up on banding at the outset.

I can only speak from my experience - tens of thousands of images All using electronic shutter, many in low light (sports, concerts).

I had banding issues with images from ONE concert - lighting was awful (overhead sodium vapor, Led spot-lighting, some incandescent floods, and a handful of fixtures I didn't recognize.

I only banding on images taken during a particular combination of light colors, leading me to believe that the issue had to do with a particular lighting device. Others have drawn the same conclusion, but with a better understanding and explanation of the specific lighting tech causing the problem.

Led light striping can be a serious problem even with full mechanical shutter. Here is an example from a concert I shot last week, with led lights and stage smoke. The banding is clearly visible along the left edge, even though I have done some editing to reduce the effect. This is shot using an A9II, but even this camera is useless with electronic shutter in this setting.

View: original size

Here's a link to the blog post to see the picture(s) uncompressed by dpreview.
https://thoregilphoto.com/2020/10/13/2020-10-13-stian-westerhus-the-shape-of-concerts-to-come-ntnu-musikk-dokkhuset/

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