Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2 Locked

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dwfrommonterey Regular Member • Posts: 359
Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

Recently I went into an investigation as to whether going to a Nikon would address my M5 problems, which are shared by others on this forum.  Another thread suggested that the solution is a Fuji.  Commenters recommended a Sony.

Here's what I end up believing makes giving up the M so hard.

From competitors, one can buy exactly what we would hope for in an M5.2 body, for at or under $1000.  If anyone is in doubt, that body includes an integral EVF.

So then you get to, well, what are you going to use for lenses.  Sparse as the M lenses are, there are far more of them than Nikon offers for their Z.  Now Nikon might claim that their FF lenses are available to their APS-C body, and they are, but they're mostly $1000 each lenses.

What are available to all of Nikon, Fuji, and Sony APS-C bodies are adapted APS-C DSLR lenses.  They're affordable, and high quality.  Beyond the straight adaptations, most Canon EF lenses can be used on all the bodies with a $250-$300 adapter, fully functional.

But the native APS-C lens offerings are both meager and far more expensive than M lenses.

That's what ties us to the M.  We can complain about the lack of M lenses, but there are far more native M lenses than there are native APS-C lenses for Nikon, and for Sony and Fuji, the lenses are very expensive (I didn't research count).  For example, replacing the 11-22 on a Fuji would cost $1000, as compared to a full price 11-22 at $400 (I think I paid about $320).

So realistically, I can go to the competition, and end up using adapted DSLR lenses.  That might make sense, but it's clearly an interim solution.

Or I can wait for an M5.2.

 dwfrommonterey's gear list:dwfrommonterey's gear list
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justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 9,878
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

dwfrommonterey wrote:

But the native APS-C lens offerings are both meager and far more expensive than M lenses.

According to Nikon's lens roadmap, but the end of 2022 they will have a whopping three

Z-DX lenses.

https://www.nikon.com/news/2020/1014_mirrorless_01.htm

Zinch Regular Member • Posts: 289
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

I think I don't understand you. If you are going to adapt lenses, obviously your best option is to stay in M: the EF catalog is the most extense and with more second hand options.

People that switch brands (or system to the RF) do it for the native lenses...

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OP dwfrommonterey Regular Member • Posts: 359
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

People that switch brands (or system to the RF) do it for the native lenses...

If I switch brands, it will be because I'm resisting being pushed into an R.

I want an advanced APS-C mirrorless body with integral EVF.

 dwfrommonterey's gear list:dwfrommonterey's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Nikon D7200 Canon EOS M5 Canon EOS RP
OP dwfrommonterey Regular Member • Posts: 359
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

According to Nikon's lens roadmap, but the end of 2022 they will have a whopping three

Z-DX lenses.

Exactly.  Meager.

And it's not clear that Tamron or Sigma will be picking up the slack.

 dwfrommonterey's gear list:dwfrommonterey's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Nikon D7200 Canon EOS M5 Canon EOS RP
prospects Regular Member • Posts: 238
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

dwfrommonterey wrote:

Recently I went into an investigation as to whether going to a Nikon would address my M5 problems, which are shared by others on this forum. Another thread suggested that the solution is a Fuji. Commenters recommended a Sony.

Here's what I end up believing makes giving up the M so hard.

From competitors, one can buy exactly what we would hope for in an M5.2 body, for at or under $1000. If anyone is in doubt, that body includes an integral EVF.

So then you get to, well, what are you going to use for lenses. Sparse as the M lenses are, there are far more of them than Nikon offers for their Z. Now Nikon might claim that their FF lenses are available to their APS-C body, and they are, but they're mostly $1000 each lenses.

What are available to all of Nikon, Fuji, and Sony APS-C bodies are adapted APS-C DSLR lenses. They're affordable, and high quality. Beyond the straight adaptations, most Canon EF lenses can be used on all the bodies with a $250-$300 adapter, fully functional.

But the native APS-C lens offerings are both meager and far more expensive than M lenses.

That's what ties us to the M. We can complain about the lack of M lenses, but there are far more native M lenses than there are native APS-C lenses for Nikon, and for Sony and Fuji, the lenses are very expensive (I didn't research count). For example, replacing the 11-22 on a Fuji would cost $1000, as compared to a full price 11-22 at $400 (I think I paid about $320).

So realistically, I can go to the competition, and end up using adapted DSLR lenses. That might make sense, but it's clearly an interim solution.

Or I can wait for an M5.2.

11-22mm is a great lens (even though my lens died randomly). However the XF 10-24mm confers extra benefits over the 11-22mm that may or not be worth its price, depending on one’s needs.

FF equivalents of 15-36mm f6 constant aperture vs 18-35mm f6.4-9. A 3mm difference on the wide end is quite significant. Constant aperture helps in exposure settings, especially in video. It’s also WR.

victorav Senior Member • Posts: 1,005
Re: fuji has more native lens

Many of their lenses are under $1000 are all metal and wr. EOS-M are certainly cheaper though. Viltrox however makes some very cheap but equally good alternatives to fuji xf lenses.

DjangoChained Forum Member • Posts: 54
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

prospects wrote:

dwfrommonterey wrote:

Recently I went into an investigation as to whether going to a Nikon would address my M5 problems, which are shared by others on this forum. Another thread suggested that the solution is a Fuji. Commenters recommended a Sony.

Here's what I end up believing makes giving up the M so hard.

From competitors, one can buy exactly what we would hope for in an M5.2 body, for at or under $1000. If anyone is in doubt, that body includes an integral EVF.

So then you get to, well, what are you going to use for lenses. Sparse as the M lenses are, there are far more of them than Nikon offers for their Z. Now Nikon might claim that their FF lenses are available to their APS-C body, and they are, but they're mostly $1000 each lenses.

What are available to all of Nikon, Fuji, and Sony APS-C bodies are adapted APS-C DSLR lenses. They're affordable, and high quality. Beyond the straight adaptations, most Canon EF lenses can be used on all the bodies with a $250-$300 adapter, fully functional.

But the native APS-C lens offerings are both meager and far more expensive than M lenses.

That's what ties us to the M. We can complain about the lack of M lenses, but there are far more native M lenses than there are native APS-C lenses for Nikon, and for Sony and Fuji, the lenses are very expensive (I didn't research count). For example, replacing the 11-22 on a Fuji would cost $1000, as compared to a full price 11-22 at $400 (I think I paid about $320).

So realistically, I can go to the competition, and end up using adapted DSLR lenses. That might make sense, but it's clearly an interim solution.

Or I can wait for an M5.2.

11-22mm is a great lens (even though my lens died randomly). However the XF 10-24mm confers extra benefits over the 11-22mm that may or not be worth its price, depending on one’s needs.

FF equivalents of 15-36mm f6 constant aperture vs 18-35mm f6.4-9. A 3mm difference on the wide end is quite significant. Constant aperture helps in exposure settings, especially in video. It’s also WR.

To be clear, only the Mark 2 version of that lens is WR, and it has only been released last week.

thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 6,262
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

dwfrommonterey wrote:

Recently I went into an investigation as to whether going to a Nikon would address my M5 problems, which are shared by others on this forum. Another thread suggested that the solution is a Fuji. Commenters recommended a Sony.

Here's what I end up believing makes giving up the M so hard.

From competitors, one can buy exactly what we would hope for in an M5.2 body, for at or under $1000. If anyone is in doubt, that body includes an integral EVF.

So then you get to, well, what are you going to use for lenses. Sparse as the M lenses are, there are far more of them than Nikon offers for their Z. Now Nikon might claim that their FF lenses are available to their APS-C body, and they are, but they're mostly $1000 each lenses.

What are available to all of Nikon, Fuji, and Sony APS-C bodies are adapted APS-C DSLR lenses. They're affordable, and high quality. Beyond the straight adaptations, most Canon EF lenses can be used on all the bodies with a $250-$300 adapter, fully functional.

But the native APS-C lens offerings are both meager and far more expensive than M lenses.

That's what ties us to the M. We can complain about the lack of M lenses, but there are far more native M lenses than there are native APS-C lenses for Nikon, and for Sony and Fuji, the lenses are very expensive (I didn't research count). For example, replacing the 11-22 on a Fuji would cost $1000, as compared to a full price 11-22 at $400 (I think I paid about $320).

So realistically, I can go to the competition, and end up using adapted DSLR lenses. That might make sense, but it's clearly an interim solution.

Or I can wait for an M5.2.

What lenses do you need?   That should always be the first question.

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EF glass = bang for my buck

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BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,077
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

dwfrommonterey wrote:

People that switch brands (or system to the RF) do it for the native lenses...

If I switch brands, it will be because I'm resisting being pushed into an R.

I want an advanced APS-C mirrorless body with integral EVF.

That is exactly what I want, preferably with R mount.

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nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 7,110
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

DjangoChained wrote:

prospects wrote:

dwfrommonterey wrote:

Recently I went into an investigation as to whether going to a Nikon would address my M5 problems, which are shared by others on this forum. Another thread suggested that the solution is a Fuji. Commenters recommended a Sony.

Here's what I end up believing makes giving up the M so hard.

From competitors, one can buy exactly what we would hope for in an M5.2 body, for at or under $1000. If anyone is in doubt, that body includes an integral EVF.

So then you get to, well, what are you going to use for lenses. Sparse as the M lenses are, there are far more of them than Nikon offers for their Z. Now Nikon might claim that their FF lenses are available to their APS-C body, and they are, but they're mostly $1000 each lenses.

What are available to all of Nikon, Fuji, and Sony APS-C bodies are adapted APS-C DSLR lenses. They're affordable, and high quality. Beyond the straight adaptations, most Canon EF lenses can be used on all the bodies with a $250-$300 adapter, fully functional.

But the native APS-C lens offerings are both meager and far more expensive than M lenses.

That's what ties us to the M. We can complain about the lack of M lenses, but there are far more native M lenses than there are native APS-C lenses for Nikon, and for Sony and Fuji, the lenses are very expensive (I didn't research count). For example, replacing the 11-22 on a Fuji would cost $1000, as compared to a full price 11-22 at $400 (I think I paid about $320).

So realistically, I can go to the competition, and end up using adapted DSLR lenses. That might make sense, but it's clearly an interim solution.

Or I can wait for an M5.2.

11-22mm is a great lens (even though my lens died randomly). However the XF 10-24mm confers extra benefits over the 11-22mm that may or not be worth its price, depending on one’s needs.

FF equivalents of 15-36mm f6 constant aperture vs 18-35mm f6.4-9. A 3mm difference on the wide end is quite significant. Constant aperture helps in exposure settings, especially in video. It’s also WR.

To be clear, only the Mark 2 version of that lens is WR, and it has only been released last week.

And the new lens is launching at the same price as the older non-WR version.

adventurer69
adventurer69 Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

As soon as you change to another brand .Canon is gonna release the M camera you have always wanted .

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Bolothegreat Contributing Member • Posts: 699
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

adventurer69 wrote:

As soon as you change to another brand .Canon is gonna release the M camera you have always wanted .

I switched but Canon released M50ii which no one seems to want! 😂

Also the original Fuji xf 10-24mm could be purchased for a lot cheaper now that an updated WR version is out...if that's the lens you need.

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nopix
nopix Senior Member • Posts: 1,873
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

Why not just go buy the Fuji that you want and end these ridiculous posts?

Just think, Ford made a Mustang II but never made a Mustang III and yet the brand persists as does the Mustang.

Canon  will persist without an M5 II.

Give up. Go buy your Fuji.

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Craig Smith Regular Member • Posts: 431
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

dwfrommonterey wrote:

I want an advanced APS-C mirrorless body with integral EVF.

Canon's motivation to produce this level of APS-C camera, with quality lenses, appears to be lackluster at best. While Fuji releases the X-S10, we get the M50 MkII.

Tired of waiting. Going to purchase an R6 for use with my RF 24-105mm f4 L. This is the combo I've always wanted in an APS-C "Canon" format.

Canon wants everyone to embrace the R system, resistance is futile.

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Bolothegreat Contributing Member • Posts: 699
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

Craig Smith wrote:

dwfrommonterey wrote:

I want an advanced APS-C mirrorless body with integral EVF.

Canon's motivation to produce this level of APS-C camera, with quality lenses, appears to be lackluster at best. While Fuji releases the X-S10, we get the M50 MkII.

Exactly

Tired of waiting. Going to purchase an R6 for use with my RF 24-105mm f4 L. This is the combo I've always wanted in an APS-C "Canon" format.

Nice that's a great but expensive option...a Fuji apsc alternative would be XT3 / X-S10 / XT4 with 16-80mm f4...cheaper & lighter with longer reach (24-120) but obviously full frame has it's own advantages...plus it's Canon.

Canon wants everyone to embrace the R system, resistance is futile.

Lol enjoy

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OP dwfrommonterey Regular Member • Posts: 359
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

What lenses do you need? That should always be the first question.

  1. Shortish excellent macro prime
  2. Ultrawide
  3. Extended range zoom with decent macro

For me, after that, it's sort of secondary for niches, or fooling around.  I also use

  1. Longer macro prime
  2. Medium macro prime
  3. Fisheye

I use fast lenses, but manual focus.  M5 works fine, and I'll probably keep it for that reason.

You'll observe that the M5 fills in all of those slots reasonably well except the extended range zoom.

But that is a very important slot for me.

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OP dwfrommonterey Regular Member • Posts: 359
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

adventurer69 wrote:

As soon as you change to another brand .Canon is gonna release the M camera you have always wanted .

 dwfrommonterey's gear list:dwfrommonterey's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Nikon D7200 Canon EOS M5 Canon EOS RP
Techvet Forum Member • Posts: 76
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

I have a nice M system comprised of the M5, the M50 and all the M lenses.  I also just traded in my heavy 6D kit with three L lenses and bought a Fuji X-T3 with the 16-80 f/4. Why?? Because I got tired of waiting for Canon to produce my ideal camera. At this point I’m not sure they ever will and if they do it may be a while.

To be very fair the M system is very good at what it is - a modestly priced, lightweight, mostly compact system the produces very good to excellent photos and videos with a user interface that ranges for simple to enthusiast levels. That’s the sugar, now for the vinegar... It is not weatherproof and probably never will be. It does not have the sort of configuration options that a R5 has and probably never will. It’s not full frame like the R6 or R5 and likely never will be.  Aside from a select few focal lengths, it doesn’t have fast glass and probably never will.  Now I’m cool with all of that because I accept it for what it is. I’ll likely never kick it to the curb because 1) it fits my needs a good bit of the time, 2) doesn’t require much space to store and 3) it’s paid for. Selling it now would definitely result in a loss over what I’ve invested in it.

My time with the Fuji has been brief at this point, but it appears to have have a STEEP learning curve. Don’t believe me... there is a excellent 2 hour YouTube video that instructs you on how to use it’s features and it’s awesome. Talk about options and capabilities... Wow!   It is larger and heavier than the M - the X-T3 w/ the 16-80 comes in at around 2.4 pounds, but a f/2 prime brings that down to just over 1.5 pounds. There is a LOT of metal in the body and the lenses, so it feels much more solid than the M. It is weather resistant and so are a lot of Fuji lenses. It is infinitely customizable, with many options that I’ve never thought of. A nice bonus is that Fuji has a mantra of keeping camera features updated with new firmware.   Finally, it may take better pictures, but it will take a while before I take better pictures with it.  For a time I expect many of my pictures to be worse.

No doubt that much of that last paragraph could also describe elements of the RF system. However, you might pay more money for some of that same capability. I also think the ultimately the RF system will be heavier, especially the faster glass.

At the end of the day, I switched because I wanted more and I got tired of waiting for Canon to give it to me.  My guess is that other M users who dabble in or defect to other brands are not doing it because the M is bad. In my case, it’s been very good to excellent.  But it’s not giving me (and others) everything I am (and they are) looking for.  Maybe Canon will eventually make a M5 MkII, but odds are it’s not going to offer some of the attributes of the X-T3 that I’ve mentioned above.  Yes, going with Fuji dictates buying new glass, so does going RF, or Nikon, or whatever.   The only real way to avoid that expense is to reread paragraph two and be content with what the M system is and what it is not.

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R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 22,301
Re: Changing brand rather than wait for M5.2

Craig Smith wrote:

Tired of waiting. Going to purchase an R6 for use with my RF 24-105mm f4 L. This is the combo I've always wanted in an APS-C "Canon" format.

Yes, the M6ii keeps costing me money too!  It's spoiled me, so now all of my cameras have to have all of this incredible new technology too (ala R5/R6)!

But even with the big boys available, it's so nice having a "baby" version (in the M6ii) that's extra portable and easy to take with you those times you want to go light.

The best of both worlds!  Happy shopping!

R2

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Experience comes from bad judgment.
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