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Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?

Started Sep 27, 2020 | Questions
eo1n New Member • Posts: 15
Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?

I'm not sure where to put this idea but I feel it might fit best in here.

After doing some "research", I could find precious little on this subject.

If there could be a user-controlled function (either hacked though Magic Lantern / Sony OpenMemories)  or officially enabled by having the sensor tilt and/or shift manually instead of the lens? I know that very slight movements in a tilt-shift lens can have extremely dramatic and noticeable effects.

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ProfHankD
ProfHankD Veteran Member • Posts: 9,147
Re: Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?
1

eo1n wrote:

I'm not sure where to put this idea but I feel it might fit best in here.

After doing some "research", I could find precious little on this subject.

If there could be a user-controlled function (either hacked though Magic Lantern / Sony OpenMemories) or officially enabled by having the sensor tilt and/or shift manually instead of the lens? I know that very slight movements in a tilt-shift lens can have extremely dramatic and noticeable effects.

IBIS does not have enough range of movement to be significant for tilt/shift.

The Scheimpflug principle predicts the change due to tilt, and it is bigger than you'd expect, but not that much. IBIS is only intended to relocate the image to it's reference position during a shaky exposure; just how big are the shake blur circles? Usually, not more than perhaps a dozen pixels -- so that's the order of how much it's designed to move.

On the other hand, it is possible to implement tilt by tilting an additional optical element, and not the lens, so there are creative things one could do that way....

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E Dinkla Senior Member • Posts: 2,613
Re: Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?
1

ProfHankD wrote:

eo1n wrote:

I'm not sure where to put this idea but I feel it might fit best in here.

After doing some "research", I could find precious little on this subject.

If there could be a user-controlled function (either hacked though Magic Lantern / Sony OpenMemories) or officially enabled by having the sensor tilt and/or shift manually instead of the lens? I know that very slight movements in a tilt-shift lens can have extremely dramatic and noticeable effects.

IBIS does not have enough range of movement to be significant for tilt/shift.

The Scheimpflug principle predicts the change due to tilt, and it is bigger than you'd expect, but not that much. IBIS is only intended to relocate the image to it's reference position during a shaky exposure; just how big are the shake blur circles? Usually, not more than perhaps a dozen pixels -- so that's the order of how much it's designed to move.

On the other hand, it is possible to implement tilt by tilting an additional optical element, and not the lens, so there are creative things one could do that way....

The idea for a tilt shift sensor is not new to me either. It would be hard to create that with the IBIS mechanics as you mentioned already. With the "focal plane" shutter before it even harder. But the Mamiya Super 23 6x9 cameras had a rear side that could be tilted. I can imagine a rear side of a mirrorless digital camera with some shift and tilt movement that has the sensor + shutter integrated. Another idea is a focusing sensor + shutter part similar to the focusing film plane of again Mamiya cameras, the Mamiya 6 folder camera range. A concept that was later also used in the Graphic 35 Jet and the Contax AX.

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D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 32,980
Re: Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?

There are lens adapters for mirrorless cameras that have tilt and shift movements. There is also Cambo's Actus, which is a kind of miniature studio camera for use with mirrorless camera bodies and various lenses.

None of these really give the flexibility of a large format camera such as a Sinar monorail. (This photo is not taken by me.)

https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/

Don Cox

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epozar
epozar Senior Member • Posts: 1,966
Re: Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?

So far only Pentax cameras IBIS can freely move a senzor (for whatever reason..)

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Heritage Cameras
Heritage Cameras Senior Member • Posts: 2,301
Re: Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?
1

epozar wrote:

So far only Pentax cameras IBIS can freely move a senzor (for whatever reason..)

Astro tracing!

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/explore/astro/

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Dave, HCL

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Holger Bargen Veteran Member • Posts: 4,906
Re: Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?
3

Heritage Cameras wrote:

epozar wrote:

So far only Pentax cameras IBIS can freely move a senzor (for whatever reason..)

Astro tracing!

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/explore/astro/

They also use it to give you the option to have an well adjusted horizon in landscape photography.

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epozar
epozar Senior Member • Posts: 1,966
Re: Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?

Heritage Cameras wrote:

epozar wrote:

So far only Pentax cameras IBIS can freely move a senzor (for whatever reason..)

Astro tracing!

slide duplicating!

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resistingLBA Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: Using 5-axis IBIS to emulate or partially replace tilt-shift lens functionality?
1

epozar wrote:

So far only Pentax cameras IBIS can freely move a senzor (for whatever reason..)

In fact with some of the Pentax cameras (including the K-1) it is also possible to shift the sensor manually with IBIS in live view very much in line with the aim of the original question. Tilting the sensor is not possible. You get any lens to be a (limited) shift lens.

The functionality is called there "Composition Adjustment".

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The Composition Adjustment function** allows you to make minute adjustment of image composition with a shift of the image sensor. It comes in handy for Live View shooting using a tripod.

** Maximum compensation range: ±1.5mm (±1mm along the axis of rotation) or ±1°

---

You can see it in action on youtube for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUf3-oHX2g8

and here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKbnO8rlg44

Hope it helps.

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